LauraK8
SFPD
Joined: 8:32 PM - Dec 31, 2017

4:45 AM - Jun 26, 2018 #11

LauraK8 wrote:
Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:OK, LauraK8, we finished it. We can discuss. I think he's guilty as sin. Lol

Should you put spoilers in the thread title?
I just added spoilers. I will post later.


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SPOILER

Innocent
—Owl Theory - it is plausible, IMHO.
Lacerations look like claws. I even told my daughter they looked like claw marks before I heard this theory. I didn’t think they were claw marks, but she wasn’t watching the show and it was how I described them. Owl experts seem pretty convinced. She was clutching strands of her hair, along with a few microscopic feathers that match the microscopic feathers around the owl talons, plus a pine twig or two.

—Henry Lee knows his blood splatter.

Issues
—He just sounded peculiar when he talked about it. He talked so much and in a convoluted way. Sometimes made me wonder. But that could just be him.

—Every time her body mentioned, cue the waterworks. Questionable, but not conclusive.

—Gay surfing. I don’t believe his wife would be okay with it. I suspect she didn’t know. Fight ensued?

—Supposedly blood was coagulated. Is this verified? Explanations:
1. He could have stayed outside an hour or two longer after she went in. Unlikely.

2. He would have entered the same back door; maybe he didn’t see her, and headed to den to write. But I think the body would be right in front of him. So on the surface, this seems weak.

3. One of his sons said they were heavy drinkers and both were probably shit-faced and falling. Maybe being so drunk he didn’t call right away.

4. His 911 call sounded fake to me every time I heard it. But maybe that was due to his being drunk.

5. He didn’t call 911 until around 2:30 a.m. There’s no way they were sitting out there until that time so there definitely was an unexplained time gap.

—Other woman falling down the stairs, although if she did have an aneurysm and was dizzy she could topple and die. Could be a 1 in a million coincidence, but...

—I heard there was a 1.4 million dollar life insurance policy on her and they were six figures in debt. Only read it once, never again, so could be false.

—Strangulation marks? Why was this never brought up until the very end in passing?

Observations
1. How did she get lacerations without a skull fracture or brain bleed? This is a big question if hit with a blunt object. Now, it could be he set up the owl scenario (hair, feathers, twig) since he seems the type to research weird things like that. But if he did set it up as an alibi I would think he’d bring up the owls. But then how did he kill her?

2. I watched for tell-take involuntary signs of lying, like rubbing nose or mouth. He never did it. But of course they had hours of footage. And with his murder-writing profession he could get these mannerisms down. Except for the on cue waterworks, he was always cool as a cucumber.

3. The director spent 15 years filming this and said in a recent interview he doesn’t know if he’s guilty or not. That was a major point for me. If he’s saying after being with him for 15 years and knowing about the owl theory, that he’s not sure, then he’s chewing on some major doubt.

I went back and forth on guilty/innocent throughout the whole show. I really suspected owls at one point. But now in the light of day I suspect he killed her.

Also, did you think it weird the blood was still on the walls after three years and he’s living there?



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Last edited by LauraK8 on 4:45 AM - Jun 26, 2018, edited 3 times in total.
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LauraK8
SFPD
Joined: 8:32 PM - Dec 31, 2017

4:51 AM - Jun 26, 2018 #12

LauraK8 wrote:
Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:OK, LauraK8, we finished it. We can discuss. I think he's guilty as sin. Lol

Should you put spoilers in the thread title?
I just added spoilers. I will post later.


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I responded, but responded to me by accident if you don’t see it.


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Regal_Legal_Beagle
Old Newbie
Joined: 6:21 PM - Feb 01, 2018

12:39 AM - Jun 27, 2018 #13

LauraK8 wrote:
LauraK8 wrote:
Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:OK, LauraK8, we finished it. We can discuss. I think he's guilty as sin. Lol

Should you put spoilers in the thread title?
I just added spoilers. I will post later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SPOILER

Innocent
—Owl Theory - it is plausible, IMHO.
Lacerations look like claws. I even told my daughter they looked like claw marks before I heard this theory. I didn’t think they were claw marks, but she wasn’t watching the show and it was how I described them. Owl experts seem pretty convinced. She was clutching strands of her hair, along with a few microscopic feathers that match the microscopic feathers around the owl talons, plus a pine twig or two.

—Henry Lee knows his blood splatter.

Issues
—He just sounded peculiar when he talked about it. He talked so much and in a convoluted way. Sometimes made me wonder. But that could just be him.

—Every time her body mentioned, cue the waterworks. Questionable, but not conclusive.

—Gay surfing. I don’t believe his wife would be okay with it. I suspect she didn’t know. Fight ensued?

—Supposedly blood was coagulated. Is this verified?  Explanations:
1. He could have stayed outside an hour or two longer after she went in. Unlikely.

2. He would have entered the same back door; maybe he didn’t see her, and headed to den to write. But I think the body would be right in front of him. So on the surface, this seems weak.

3. One of his sons said they were heavy drinkers and both were probably shit-faced and falling. Maybe being so drunk he didn’t call right away.

4. His 911 call sounded fake to me every time I heard it. But maybe that was due to his being drunk.

5. He didn’t call 911 until around 2:30 a.m. There’s no way they were sitting out there until that time so there definitely was an unexplained time gap.

—Other woman falling down the stairs, although if she did have an aneurysm and was dizzy she could topple and die. Could be a 1 in a million coincidence, but...

—I heard there was a 1.4 million dollar life insurance policy on her and they were six figures in debt. Only read it once, never again, so could be false.

—Strangulation marks? Why was this never brought up until the very end in passing?

Observations
1. How did she get lacerations without a skull fracture or brain bleed? This is a big question if hit with a blunt object.  Now, it could be he set up the owl scenario (hair, feathers, twig) since he seems the type to research weird things like that. But if he did set it up as an alibi I would think he’d bring up the owls. But then how did he kill her?

2. I watched for tell-take involuntary signs of lying, like rubbing nose or mouth. He never did it. But of course they had hours of footage. And with his murder-writing profession he could get these mannerisms down. Except for the on cue waterworks, he was always cool as a cucumber.

3. The director spent 15 years filming this and said in a recent interview he doesn’t know if he’s guilty or not. That was a major point for me. If he’s saying after being with him for 15 years and knowing about the owl theory, that he’s not sure, then he’s chewing on some major doubt.

I went back and forth on guilty/innocent throughout the whole show. I really suspected owls at one point. But now in the light of day I suspect he killed her.

Also, did you think it weird the blood was still on the walls after three years and he’s living there

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll follow up with more thoughts on why I think he's guilty, but for now I just wanted to touch on your last point about living with the blood on the walls. That's just nuts. My wife and I said the same thing.
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LauraK8
SFPD
Joined: 8:32 PM - Dec 31, 2017

4:34 AM - Jun 28, 2018 #14

Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:
LauraK8 wrote:
LauraK8 wrote: I just added spoilers. I will post later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SPOILER

Innocent
—Owl Theory - it is plausible, IMHO.
Lacerations look like claws. I even told my daughter they looked like claw marks before I heard this theory. I didn’t think they were claw marks, but she wasn’t watching the show and it was how I described them. Owl experts seem pretty convinced. She was clutching strands of her hair, along with a few microscopic feathers that match the microscopic feathers around the owl talons, plus a pine twig or two.

—Henry Lee knows his blood splatter.

Issues
—He just sounded peculiar when he talked about it. He talked so much and in a convoluted way. Sometimes made me wonder. But that could just be him.

—Every time her body mentioned, cue the waterworks. Questionable, but not conclusive.

—Gay surfing. I don’t believe his wife would be okay with it. I suspect she didn’t know. Fight ensued?

—Supposedly blood was coagulated. Is this verified?  Explanations:
1. He could have stayed outside an hour or two longer after she went in. Unlikely.

2. He would have entered the same back door; maybe he didn’t see her, and headed to den to write. But I think the body would be right in front of him. So on the surface, this seems weak.

3. One of his sons said they were heavy drinkers and both were probably shit-faced and falling. Maybe being so drunk he didn’t call right away.

4. His 911 call sounded fake to me every time I heard it. But maybe that was due to his being drunk.

5. He didn’t call 911 until around 2:30 a.m. There’s no way they were sitting out there until that time so there definitely was an unexplained time gap.

—Other woman falling down the stairs, although if she did have an aneurysm and was dizzy she could topple and die. Could be a 1 in a million coincidence, but...

—I heard there was a 1.4 million dollar life insurance policy on her and they were six figures in debt. Only read it once, never again, so could be false.

—Strangulation marks? Why was this never brought up until the very end in passing?

Observations
1. How did she get lacerations without a skull fracture or brain bleed? This is a big question if hit with a blunt object.  Now, it could be he set up the owl scenario (hair, feathers, twig) since he seems the type to research weird things like that. But if he did set it up as an alibi I would think he’d bring up the owls. But then how did he kill her?

2. I watched for tell-take involuntary signs of lying, like rubbing nose or mouth. He never did it. But of course they had hours of footage. And with his murder-writing profession he could get these mannerisms down. Except for the on cue waterworks, he was always cool as a cucumber.

3. The director spent 15 years filming this and said in a recent interview he doesn’t know if he’s guilty or not. That was a major point for me. If he’s saying after being with him for 15 years and knowing about the owl theory, that he’s not sure, then he’s chewing on some major doubt.

I went back and forth on guilty/innocent throughout the whole show. I really suspected owls at one point. But now in the light of day I suspect he killed her.

Also, did you think it weird the blood was still on the walls after three years and he’s living there

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll follow up with more thoughts on why I think he's guilty, but for now I just wanted to touch on your last point about living with the blood on the walls. That's just nuts. My wife and I said the same thing.
Another thing: the blowpipe.

It was missing, then, of course, was found later in the garage.

Defense said there were so many cobwebs, it had obviously been there for years.

Then later they find out that two detectives had found it during the initial searches, took it outside and photographed it. Then they put it back in the garage, but in a different location. This means the cobwebs grew after the night of the murder, so that theory of “several years” doesn’t hold.

Next, the tip was missing. Why? It seems plausible that MP removed the tip and dumped it somewhere. Why would it be missing?


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LauraK8
SFPD
Joined: 8:32 PM - Dec 31, 2017

5:33 PM - Jun 28, 2018 #15

LauraK8 wrote:
Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:
LauraK8 wrote: SPOILER

Innocent
—Owl Theory - it is plausible, IMHO.
Lacerations look like claws. I even told my daughter they looked like claw marks before I heard this theory. I didn’t think they were claw marks, but she wasn’t watching the show and it was how I described them. Owl experts seem pretty convinced. She was clutching strands of her hair, along with a few microscopic feathers that match the microscopic feathers around the owl talons, plus a pine twig or two.

—Henry Lee knows his blood splatter.

Issues
—He just sounded peculiar when he talked about it. He talked so much and in a convoluted way. Sometimes made me wonder. But that could just be him.

—Every time her body mentioned, cue the waterworks. Questionable, but not conclusive.

—Gay surfing. I don’t believe his wife would be okay with it. I suspect she didn’t know. Fight ensued?

—Supposedly blood was coagulated. Is this verified?  Explanations:
1. He could have stayed outside an hour or two longer after she went in. Unlikely.

2. He would have entered the same back door; maybe he didn’t see her, and headed to den to write. But I think the body would be right in front of him. So on the surface, this seems weak.

3. One of his sons said they were heavy drinkers and both were probably shit-faced and falling. Maybe being so drunk he didn’t call right away.

4. His 911 call sounded fake to me every time I heard it. But maybe that was due to his being drunk.

5. He didn’t call 911 until around 2:30 a.m. There’s no way they were sitting out there until that time so there definitely was an unexplained time gap.

—Other woman falling down the stairs, although if she did have an aneurysm and was dizzy she could topple and die. Could be a 1 in a million coincidence, but...

—I heard there was a 1.4 million dollar life insurance policy on her and they were six figures in debt. Only read it once, never again, so could be false.

—Strangulation marks? Why was this never brought up until the very end in passing?

Observations
1. How did she get lacerations without a skull fracture or brain bleed? This is a big question if hit with a blunt object.  Now, it could be he set up the owl scenario (hair, feathers, twig) since he seems the type to research weird things like that. But if he did set it up as an alibi I would think he’d bring up the owls. But then how did he kill her?

2. I watched for tell-take involuntary signs of lying, like rubbing nose or mouth. He never did it. But of course they had hours of footage. And with his murder-writing profession he could get these mannerisms down. Except for the on cue waterworks, he was always cool as a cucumber.

3. The director spent 15 years filming this and said in a recent interview he doesn’t know if he’s guilty or not. That was a major point for me. If he’s saying after being with him for 15 years and knowing about the owl theory, that he’s not sure, then he’s chewing on some major doubt.

I went back and forth on guilty/innocent throughout the whole show. I really suspected owls at one point. But now in the light of day I suspect he killed her.

Also, did you think it weird the blood was still on the walls after three years and he’s living there

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll follow up with more thoughts on why I think he's guilty, but for now I just wanted to touch on your last point about living with the blood on the walls. That's just nuts. My wife and I said the same thing.
Another thing: the blowpipe.

It was missing, then, of course, was found later in the garage.

Defense said there were so many cobwebs, it had obviously been there for years.

Then later they find out that two detectives had found it during the initial searches, took it outside and photographed it. Then they put it back in the garage, but in a different location. This means the cobwebs grew after the night of the murder, so that theory of “several years” doesn’t hold.

Next, the tip was missing. Why? It seems plausible that MP removed the tip and dumped it somewhere. Why would it be missing?


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More damning evidence in this link:
Michael Peterson says Netflix doc Staircase helped overturn conviction
https://dailym.ai/2Iz9Umo



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Angie
DOJ
Joined: 7:01 PM - Mar 07, 2007

2:35 AM - Jun 29, 2018 #16

I just finished this on Tuesday and I don't know whether he was guilty or not (I'd like to think not.. I feel so awful for Martha and Margaret) but what makes me suspicious is how much potential evidence the documentary did not include - the strangulation, the insurance money, the couple's debt and his wife's concern about losing her job, etc.. With that all said though, Deaver's testimony was a bunch of bullshit and should never have been allowed, imo. 
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Regal_Legal_Beagle
Old Newbie
Joined: 6:21 PM - Feb 01, 2018

11:47 PM - Jul 02, 2018 #17

I've been out of pocket for a bit. Son graduated and had college days, etc. Anyway,

Yeah, I believe the guy's guilty as sin. At one point in the documentary, they showed Nancy Grace saying "there are no coincidences in criminal defense." I don't care for Nancy Grace, but that statement has always proven true. Defense attorneys love to get knee-deep in the little things in order to take the juries eye off the big things.

The fact that his friend in Germany suffered a gruesome death almost identical to Kathleen's is just incredibly damning. How many people under age 50 die in stairway fall accidents in their home? How many of those end up with several gashes to the top and back of their head causing that much blood? How many people personally know 2 people that happened to (let alone were the last people to have been alone with both of them)?

I asked my wife: I wonder how many "incidents" like that there have been in the WORLD in the last 35 years. I'd bet my truck the number is 2.

That coupled with what we know about Kathleen's physical injuries, the blood being mostly dry when the cops arrived, the damage to her hyoid bone that shows she was strangled. It's obvious she died slowly over a prolonged, multi-event attack. 

He's also just a straight up creep. Look at side by side pics of Kathleen, the lady that "fell down the stairs" in Germany, and the lady from the documentary crew that he had a fling with--he clearly has a "type." 

I feel horrible for the two girls he adopted, Martha and Margaret. They are clearly in denial, and who can blame them. To admit he did this is to admit they've been fooled for so long in calling their mother's murderer Dad. The human mind has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that you've been wrong about everything you believed in your life.

He's a special kind of scum in my opinion, and I don't say that about very many people.
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LauraK8
SFPD
Joined: 8:32 PM - Dec 31, 2017

12:07 AM - Jul 03, 2018 #18

Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:I've been out of pocket for a bit. Son graduated and had college days, etc. Anyway,

Yeah, I believe the guy's guilty as sin. At one point in the documentary, they showed Nancy Grace saying "there are no coincidences in criminal defense." I don't care for Nancy Grace, but that statement has always proven true. Defense attorneys love to get knee-deep in the little things in order to take the juries eye off the big things.

The fact that his friend in Germany suffered a gruesome death almost identical to Kathleen's is just incredibly damning. How many people under age 50 die in stairway fall accidents in their home? How many of those end up with several gashes to the top and back of their head causing that much blood? How many people personally know 2 people that happened to (let alone were the last people to have been alone with both of them)?

I asked my wife: I wonder how many "incidents" like that there have been in the WORLD in the last 35 years. I'd bet my truck the number is 2.

That coupled with what we know about Kathleen's physical injuries, the blood being mostly dry when the cops arrived, the damage to her hyoid bone that shows she was strangled. It's obvious she died slowly over a prolonged, multi-event attack. 

He's also just a straight up creep. Look at side by side pics of Kathleen, the lady that "fell down the stairs" in Germany, and the lady from the documentary crew that he had a fling with--he clearly has a "type." 

I feel horrible for the two girls he adopted, Martha and Margaret. They are clearly in denial, and who can blame them. To admit he did this is to admit they've been fooled for so long in calling their mother's murderer Dad. The human mind has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that you've been wrong about everything you believed in your life.

He's a special kind of scum in my opinion, and I don't say that about very many people.
Someone noted in a post somewhere that one of those daughters looks like him. I hadn’t thought about that but I did wonder during the viewing if one might be his.

I also read another post that solidified it for me. Boy, I wish I was the prosecutor and could have used this. Slam dunk:

Picture yourself sitting outside enjoying your wine. Your wife has gone inside 15 minutes ago, 1 hour ago, 2 hours ago. (Let’s not worry about the time nuances for now.)

You stroll in and are immediately confronted with a scene of massive blood loss and what looks like a dead body.

What is your first instinct upon seeing that image?

It would be, Oh my God, someone killed my wife! There’s an intruder!

That would be everyone’s first thought seeing all that blood. Now maybe if you loved the person you’d run up to the body, but either way you’d be panicking the killer is upstairs or sneaking up behind you or in a closet. The hair on your arm would be standing on edge. That’s why people race out of the building (Tate murder, Clutter family, etc) and run to a neighbor’s.

Now, not only did he NOT do that, the first thing he said to the 911 operator was: My wife has had an accident.

Your first instinct would never be that it was an accident (fall down the stairs) when coming upon that scene.

They say every murderer has a tell. He was arrogant but messed up his correct reaction. That’s his tell.

Congrats on son’s graduation.




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LauraK8
SFPD
Joined: 8:32 PM - Dec 31, 2017

1:09 AM - Jul 03, 2018 #19

LauraK8 wrote:
Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:I've been out of pocket for a bit. Son graduated and had college days, etc. Anyway,

Yeah, I believe the guy's guilty as sin. At one point in the documentary, they showed Nancy Grace saying "there are no coincidences in criminal defense." I don't care for Nancy Grace, but that statement has always proven true. Defense attorneys love to get knee-deep in the little things in order to take the juries eye off the big things.

The fact that his friend in Germany suffered a gruesome death almost identical to Kathleen's is just incredibly damning. How many people under age 50 die in stairway fall accidents in their home? How many of those end up with several gashes to the top and back of their head causing that much blood? How many people personally know 2 people that happened to (let alone were the last people to have been alone with both of them)?

I asked my wife: I wonder how many "incidents" like that there have been in the WORLD in the last 35 years. I'd bet my truck the number is 2.

That coupled with what we know about Kathleen's physical injuries, the blood being mostly dry when the cops arrived, the damage to her hyoid bone that shows she was strangled. It's obvious she died slowly over a prolonged, multi-event attack. 

He's also just a straight up creep. Look at side by side pics of Kathleen, the lady that "fell down the stairs" in Germany, and the lady from the documentary crew that he had a fling with--he clearly has a "type." 

I feel horrible for the two girls he adopted, Martha and Margaret. They are clearly in denial, and who can blame them. To admit he did this is to admit they've been fooled for so long in calling their mother's murderer Dad. The human mind has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that you've been wrong about everything you believed in your life.

He's a special kind of scum in my opinion, and I don't say that about very many people.
Someone noted in a post somewhere that one of those daughters looks like him. I hadn’t thought about that but I did wonder during the viewing if one might be his.

I also read another post that solidified it for me. Boy, I wish I was the prosecutor and could have used this. Slam dunk:

Picture yourself sitting outside enjoying your wine. Your wife has gone inside 15 minutes ago, 1 hour ago, 2 hours ago. (Let’s not worry about the time nuances for now.)

You stroll in and are immediately confronted with a scene of massive blood loss and what looks like a dead body.

What is your first instinct upon seeing that image?

It would be, Oh my God, someone killed my wife! There’s an intruder!

That would be everyone’s first thought seeing all that blood. Now maybe if you loved the person you’d run up to the body, but either way you’d be panicking the killer is upstairs or sneaking up behind you or in a closet. The hair on your arm would be standing on edge. That’s why people race out of the building (Tate murder, Clutter family, etc) and run to a neighbor’s.

Now, not only did he NOT do that, the first thing he said to the 911 operator was: My wife has had an accident.

Your first instinct would never be that it was an accident (fall down the stairs) when coming upon that scene.

They say every murderer has a tell. He was arrogant but messed up his correct reaction. That’s his tell.

Congrats on son’s graduation.




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Just found this from an archive. Michael Peterson’s own sister thinks he did it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20051018183 ... /1186.html


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Regal_Legal_Beagle
Old Newbie
Joined: 6:21 PM - Feb 01, 2018

4:17 AM - Jul 03, 2018 #20

LauraK8 wrote:
Regal_Legal_Beagle wrote:I've been out of pocket for a bit. Son graduated and had college days, etc. Anyway,

Yeah, I believe the guy's guilty as sin. At one point in the documentary, they showed Nancy Grace saying "there are no coincidences in criminal defense." I don't care for Nancy Grace, but that statement has always proven true. Defense attorneys love to get knee-deep in the little things in order to take the juries eye off the big things.

The fact that his friend in Germany suffered a gruesome death almost identical to Kathleen's is just incredibly damning. How many people under age 50 die in stairway fall accidents in their home? How many of those end up with several gashes to the top and back of their head causing that much blood? How many people personally know 2 people that happened to (let alone were the last people to have been alone with both of them)?

I asked my wife: I wonder how many "incidents" like that there have been in the WORLD in the last 35 years. I'd bet my truck the number is 2.

That coupled with what we know about Kathleen's physical injuries, the blood being mostly dry when the cops arrived, the damage to her hyoid bone that shows she was strangled. It's obvious she died slowly over a prolonged, multi-event attack. 

He's also just a straight up creep. Look at side by side pics of Kathleen, the lady that "fell down the stairs" in Germany, and the lady from the documentary crew that he had a fling with--he clearly has a "type." 

I feel horrible for the two girls he adopted, Martha and Margaret. They are clearly in denial, and who can blame them. To admit he did this is to admit they've been fooled for so long in calling their mother's murderer Dad. The human mind has a hard time coming to grips with the fact that you've been wrong about everything you believed in your life.

He's a special kind of scum in my opinion, and I don't say that about very many people.
Someone noted in a post somewhere that one of those daughters looks like him. I hadn’t thought about that but I did wonder during the viewing if one might be his.

I also read another post that solidified it for me. Boy, I wish I was the prosecutor and could have used this. Slam dunk:

Picture yourself sitting outside enjoying your wine. Your wife has gone inside 15 minutes ago, 1 hour ago, 2 hours ago. (Let’s not worry about the time nuances for now.)

You stroll in and are immediately confronted with a scene of massive blood loss and what looks like a dead body.

What is your first instinct upon seeing that image?

It would be, Oh my God, someone killed my wife! There’s an intruder!

That would be everyone’s first thought seeing all that blood. Now maybe if you loved the person you’d run up to the body, but either way you’d be panicking the killer is upstairs or sneaking up behind you or in a closet. The hair on your arm would be standing on edge. That’s why people race out of the building (Tate murder, Clutter family, etc) and run to a neighbor’s.

Now, not only did he NOT do that, the first thing he said to the 911 operator was:  My wife has had an accident.

Your first instinct would never be that it was an accident (fall down the stairs) when coming upon that scene.

They say every murderer has a tell. He was arrogant but messed up his correct reaction. That’s his tell.

Congrats on son’s graduation.




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That's a good point.

Thanks for the congrats. Kinda scary that he's fixing to be in college. Time flies.
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