The hooded Zodiac " costume "

Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell
Sept. 27, 1969 at Lake Berryessa in Napa County, Cal.
Discussion of definite Zodiac victims Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell should be posted here

Zleuth
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May 10th, 2018, 3:33 pm #11

ZteveMcQueen wrote:
TomVoigt wrote:
If you go by the content of the authenticated communications, excluding the ciphers, the symbol appeared 25 times, while the name "Zodiac" only 12. Not counting the symbol on both the costume and car door, which boosts it to 27 to 12 in favor of the symbol. And of course, he used the symbol in three letters before coming up with the name.

I believe the name was merely an afterthought.
I tend to agree. Anyone trying to make sense of Zodiac using astrology is on a snipe hunt, IMO. He doesn’t reference anything astrological in the authenticated letters. As far as I can recall none of the major suspects showed any interest in astrology.


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Zleuth
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May 10th, 2018, 3:52 pm #12

I believe the “Zodiac” name and symbol did not come from astrology but from the band name and graphic logo of Swiss watch:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Watches


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zedsdeadbaby
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May 11th, 2018, 10:02 pm #13

I definitely think the Zodiac name had little to do with astrology as there's no ref to it in any of the writings. It's common knowledge ALA had a Zodiac watch. Has anything ever been made of 'Zodiac' brand inflatable boats? That would be another tie to ALA with his skin diving. He probably became infatuated with the word.
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Bolt
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May 11th, 2018, 11:12 pm #14

That's a good point. They typically used inflatable boats for ab diving at Salt Point.
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I-Love-You
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May 11th, 2018, 11:44 pm #15

If the costume meant something special to him...why did he give it to a person that he was stalking?

Is it possible that the killer wasn't the zodiac at all? And the writing on the car came from one of the detectives, who saw and seized the opportunity to post the murder on the zodiac?
I don't think that's what happened - it was probably the same person.

(DON'T READ THE NEXT PART IF YOU GET TRIGGERED EASILY. IT IS OFF-TOPIC. It has NOTHING to do with the Zodiac Case. DONT READ if an off topic rant makes you angry. Just skip it!!!!!!! I'm just eating dinner and listening to a guy go off on what a brilliant documentary the Avery one was.  Even tho the documentary is as accurate as Graysmith's Book. There are still clowns out there that believe it. )

BUT it is funny how everybody's reaction to my question would no doubt be negative. But if you talk to people about another famous case - the Steve Avery murder case - people will swear up and down that the police framed Avery for the murder he committed that was made so famous by the HORRIBLY biased documentary on Netflix. That documentary is less factual than Graysmith's book.

The last place the victim was seen was at Avery's house. Where he lured her in by using a fake name and giving the address of house close to his. So for the police to have killed and framed him.....think of the logical steps. SOMEHOW they would have had to known she was going to see Avery - even tho his phone call to her office was under a fake name! How would they know?
The police would have had to rushed to his house and hid until she drove off - then pulled her over and killed her. Then later that day somehow snuck back on Avery's property and disposed of some of her body parts and personal belongings in a tire fire he had going. I suppose they hid out in the bushes, and when Avery went inside to go the bathroom, the police ran into the yard - threw body parts into the fire, threw personal belongings into burning barrels, then ran away really quickly.

Police that weren't involved in the original case where Avery was unjustly put in jail. Police were willing to risk their jobs, their careers, and risk going to jail for murder.....over a case they weren't involved in!!!! All because some detective didn't want the city to get sued????

People will believe that outrageous story, which is literally impossible to physically have happened.....and would involved multiple police, judges, detectives....but they can't believe that one or two cops working the Vallejo area might be dirty?

It's kind of funny.

SORRY FOR THE OFF TOPIC.
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I-Love-You
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May 11th, 2018, 11:46 pm #16

Bolt wrote: That's a good point. They typically used inflatable boats for ab diving at Salt Point.
Those two things really are fairly interesting.
Owning a zodiac watch and boat wouldn't be that crazy. But, the fact that a guy who was a major suspect as to being a killer who called himself the zodiac.....that is pretty fascinating.
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Bolt
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May 12th, 2018, 2:08 am #17

zedsdeadbaby wrote: I definitely think the Zodiac name had little to do with astrology as there's no ref to it in any of the writings. It's common knowledge ALA had a Zodiac watch. Has anything ever been made of 'Zodiac' brand inflatable boats? That would be another tie to ALA with his skin diving. He probably became infatuated with the word.
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annie1004
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May 13th, 2018, 8:04 pm #18

I-Love-You wrote: If the costume meant something special to him...why did he give it to a person that he was stalking?

Is it possible that the killer wasn't the zodiac at all? And the writing on the car came from one of the detectives, who saw and seized the opportunity to post the murder on the zodiac?
I don't think that's what happened - it was probably the same person.

(DON'T READ THE NEXT PART IF YOU GET TRIGGERED EASILY. IT IS OFF-TOPIC. It has NOTHING to do with the Zodiac Case. DONT READ if an off topic rant makes you angry. Just skip it!!!!!!! I'm just eating dinner and listening to a guy go off on what a brilliant documentary the Avery one was.  Even tho the documentary is as accurate as Graysmith's Book. There are still clowns out there that believe it. )

BUT it is funny how everybody's reaction to my question would no doubt be negative. But if you talk to people about another famous case - the Steve Avery murder case - people will swear up and down that the police framed Avery for the murder he committed that was made so famous by the HORRIBLY biased documentary on Netflix. That documentary is less factual than Graysmith’s. (Shortened for brevity)

SORRY FOR THE OFF TOPIC.
Good analysis (although I lost interest in the Avery case early on). Reminds me of the conspiracy ‭of the Royal Family’s minions that “murdered” Princess Diana... they would need to have known about the route changes, that Henri-Paul would be drunk, etc.).
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dbowman007
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May 13th, 2018, 9:32 pm #19

TejasRob wrote:
ZteveMcQueen wrote:
He only wore the hood at Lake Berryessa.
That we know of. It maybe the only time he wore it and someone lived to tell about it. 
It was still daylight out, and people have made the reasonable point that he needed something to conceal his face.
Someone had lived to talk after his last attack before Berryessa, that might have been a reason why he wore the hood, along with the LB attack being in the daytime.


Thing is, he could have done that with a ski mask.
Very true. It took time to make that hood, it meant something to him.

Too, he walked to the crime scene without the hood. People in the park saw him without it. Even Cecilia Shepard briefly saw him before he put on the hood. If the hood was to hide his face he didn't use it very well.
There's that theory, which I don't believe, but I suppose it's possible, that he filmed the attack and wore the hood so he would not be seen on the film.

Some people think he wanted to scare his victims, but the plan he executed was exactly the opposite. He kept them calm and under control by telling them he only wanted their car to escape to Mexico. Wearing a scary outfit was counter to the plan.
It would have failed with me. If I saw him walking toward me with that hood on, he would have had to shoot me in the back as I was running away, it would have scared the sheet out of me.
I tend to think the costume wasn't for his victims, it was for him. With his crimes and his letters Z seems to have been playing a role or acting out a script in his head. I think of the Lake Berryessa costume as comic book supervillain cosplay.
I believe you are spot on. He was really acting out his Zodiac alter-ego. Gave him a real thrill. I agree with Tahoe that it is a bit odd he didn't say anything about being Zodiac, but he might have thought they knew who he was and was surprised by their reaction. Hartnell was a cool customer, probably threw Zodiac off a bit.
Hello,
If he had said he was the Zodiac he likely would have lost control of the situation. Knowing he had killed previously two sets of young couples, they likely would not have allowed themselves to be tied up. I agree, the outfit likely had personal meaning.


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annie1004
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May 14th, 2018, 12:35 am #20

I cannot even imagine how frightening it had to be seeing someone up close wearing the costume.  I probably wouldn't have believed my eyes at first.  I wonder if Zodiac had a significant reason for wearing the costume that day besides having it discussed almost 50 years later.
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