PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION

Joined: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 pm

August 18th, 2017, 4:40 am #1

Nick’s Description:In 1972, when I met Nick, he weighed approximately 165 pounds.  He is five-feet eight-inches tall, stocky (short legs and long, thick body) and has always been a little overweight without being fat.  His hair is dark brown, but almost looks black.  It is very thick and straight with a little wave to it.  At that time, he wore his hair short on the sides and combed back on top in a pompadour.  (He still wears his hair in a similar style, although it is not as thick.)  He also has dark, brown eyes and has never had much facial hair.  During the time that I knew him, he typically wore dark, pleated, pants with a dark, waste-length windbreaker jacket with elastic waist and cuffs.  I have seen recent pictures of him and he still dresses the same way.     

Wing Walker Shoes:Near Bryan Hartnell’s car, detectives found imprints of size 10 ½ Wing Walker Shoes. Nick’s step-father was a Forman in the welding shop at Mare Island where they built nuclear submarines.  As an employee at Mare Island, he would have had Exchange privileges at Travis Air Force Base where they sold Wing Walkers.  Wing Walker shoes were used by aircraft mechanics when they walked on airplane wings.  They were also used by employees at Mare Island when working on nuclear submarines.  Nick wears size 10 or 10 ½ shoes.  

The Hood:    The following was taken from an article in the Napa Register: “She [Cecelia] said he had the hood on, he put the hood on, and there weren’t eye holes,” recalled Collins in a recent interview.  “Instead it was like a welder’s mask, an opening in the front of the mask itself.” Since Nick’s step-father became a welder at Mare Island in the early fifties, it is likely that he owned a welder’s hood like the one that Cecelia described.  (Today, welders wear helmets.)  

The Code:Prior to working at Mare Island, Nick’s step-father was a radioman in the Korean War.  It is said that some of the codes that the Zodiac used were used in World War II and Korea. 

The Zodiac Symbol:Bryan Hartnell told investigators that the Zodiac wore a costume, on the front of which was a circle with a cross through it, identical to the drawings Zodiac included in some of his letters. The circle with a cross is a symbol that was used as the sign of the Zodiac by the occult.  Apparently, both the Zodiac and Darlene Ferrin were involved in the San Francisco occult and possibly the Vallejo occult, known as the Ott Group.  I told two D.A.R.E officers about Nick’s strange behavior (staying out until 4:00 in the morning, possible drug use, etc.) and they both thought that he was probably involved in the Vallejo occult. 

The White Belt at Lake Berryessa:In 1968, Nick was injured in a football accident and dislocated his neck.  He wore a body cast that went from his neck to his waist.  (He later told me that he could walk in it and even partied and danced in it shortly after the accident.)  This would have given him a more pronounced, stocky appearance under his jacket.  The injury would also explain what several witnesses described as a lumbering walk.  (It may have even given him an alibi.) The three sunbathers from the college at Lake Berryessa reported that the Zodiac had a t-shirt hanging out the back.  One girl said that it looked like a belt.  This may have been the bottom of his cast.  

Zodiac’s Description:(The following quotations were taken from Zodiac by Robert Graysmith.) 

February 26, 1969, Darlene Ferrin’s babysitter reported seeing a man with dark hair sitting in a white sedan in front of Darlene’s home.  (Page 14) 

On February 27, 1969, when Darlene dropped by Terry’s Restaurant, she was told a stocky man had been asking questions about her.  (Page 15) 

May 24, 1969, Darlene’s sister, Linda, reported seeing a man who was “overweight” and “five-feet eight-inches tall or so,” at Darlene’s painting party.  (Page 27) 

Mike Mageau described the killer as being “beefy, heavyset without being blubbery fat, perhaps 195 to 200 pounds.”  Mike estimated that he was one head higher than Darlene’s Corvair, about five-feet eight-inches tall.  His pants had pleats but Mike could see that he had a slight potbelly. Darlene’s friends Bobbie, Evelyn and Lois all recalled one particular individual, a short, stocky man with black hair who kept trying to date Darlene.  According to Mike Mageau, the attacker weighed about 160 pounds and combed his hair up in kind of a pompadour and then back.  (Page 39) 

According to the landlady, “Paul” was kind of plump with dark, straight hair.”  (Page 44) According to an eye witness at Lake Berryessa, the killer “was a white adult about five-feet ten-inches tall, with a  heavy build, wearing dark trousers and long-sleeved dark shirt with red coloring.”  He was also wearing a “blue windbreaker jacket.”  (Page 68)  (Perhaps the red in his shirt was blood from stabbing Bryan and Cecelia.) 

Bryan Hartnell said of the voice, “It was like a, a student’s.”  (Nick was 17 at the time.) Also, he wore a lightweight, blue-black windbreaker.  He also wore baggy, pleated slacks.  Bryan also judged him to be between five-foot ten-inches and six-foot one or two inches.  (Bryan said that he could have been a bad judge of height since he was so tall.)  (Page 68) 

Hartnell later said that the guy had dark hair and a greasy forehead.  (Page 77) 

Teenage witnesses described Paul Stine’s killer as wearing a dark jacket, crew-cut hair, bug guy, kinda stocky, husky.  (Page 91) 

They also said, “Looked like he was about five-foot eight-inches tall.  He was wearing a dark navy-blue or black parka-type jacket and dark trousers.  (Page 95) 

Kathleen Johns described her pursuer as being clean-shaven and neatly dressed.  (Page 138) 

She also described him as wearing a dark blue –black nylon windbreaker over black woolen bell-bottom pants.  She went on to say that “His nose was not especially small.”  And that “his jaw wasn’t weak.  He wasn’t a weak type of person and he didn’t have a heavy forehead.  His hair was brown, worn like a crew cut … He wasn’t real big, weighed about 166.” 

The following quotes were taken from Zodiac Unmasked by Robert Graysmith: 

“He was heavy build, approximately five-foot, eight-inches tall.  Short, brown hair …”  (Page 21) 

“The suspect that was observed by officer Fouke was a WMA … five-foot, ten-inches, 180 … pounds.  Medium heavy build – Barrel chested – medium complexion … Crew cut … dressed in dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue).  Elastic cuffs and waistband zipped part way up.  Brown wool pants pleated type baggy in rear … May have been wearing low cut shoes.”  (Page 22) 

“Zodiac presumably sported a healthy head of straight brown hair beneath his hood.  ‘I remember a kind of greasy forehead …’ the surviving Berryessa victim told me later.  He thought the perpetrator had dark brown hair – a lock had shown through dark glasses covering narrow eyelets.”  (Page 32)

“I don’t know how tall Zodiac was, maybe five-foot eight … somewhere in there.”  (Page 33)

“… 10 ½ regular shoe.”  (Page 35) “’The shoes Zodiac wore at Lake Berryessa in September 1969 were sold through base exchanges only.”  (Nick’s step-father worked at Mare Island and had Exchange privileges.)  (Page 127)       y995_1_orig.jpg sketch_1.gif
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Last edited by MADAMEX.zodiackiller.fr on November 6th, 2017, 8:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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ratman
DOJ
Joined: February 24th, 2007, 11:52 pm

August 21st, 2017, 3:32 am #2

MADAMEX,
Just a reminder: Please verify anything you get from Greysmith's books as they are full of errors and fabrications.
I'm sure you believe your ex to be Z but only compare his past actions to what has been truly documented. Good luck.
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Joined: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 pm

August 21st, 2017, 3:46 am #3

Ratman, thank you for your advice and encouragement!!  Yes, after reading his books, he had me totally convinced that Arthur Leigh Allen was the Zodiac.  Then, I began researching again and realized that he just wanted to finish his book!!  Anyway, hopefully I have most of the information right here!!  If not, I don't mind making corrections!!       
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bruce3
DOJ
Joined: June 4th, 2013, 4:53 am

September 13th, 2017, 9:32 pm #4

All good. But as we know there must be DNA/Fingerprints,etc., for these physical features to hold up in court. My guy fits this scenario too. He was a pipe fitter/welder. He and a friend first came to CA to pick fruit up and down the state in 1963 (same year of the attack in Lompoc). The friend of BD said they went to the 'PX where Bruce bought some military boots or foot ware/shoes?.' BD mentioned he 'liked military foot ware or shoes.' He had PX privileges too being a welder and pipe fitter and union member.Sandy our in house long time poster said she found there was construction in the Lompoc area at that time.

Of interest is the fact -according to Kathleen Johns who told me the stranger who drove her around as Z admitted in a letter seemed to know the those back farm roads. BD 'picked fruit up and down the state' as a student then on break.

At LB Z seemed 'comfortable' in his hood as he would need very good peripheral vision to watch two people as he confronted both.It was as though he was used to limited visual perspective as any good welder would have wearing a welder's hood at work.

As to RS.There was massive reconstruction of the highschool as well as RCC 1966/7 where Cheri Jo was killed.My guy was living in Anaheim 1964-66 (about 30 mins from RS until he moved to RS at some point in '66 ,but, 'left Nov.66... as one PI said... to become a transient undergrounder.'

BD began doing -by his own admission in parole hearing reports - hard drugs in '66 and the Confession letter and violent crime itself seemed fueled by drugs) and Near CAL was the chief construction company for the huge RCC project seeking workers even, of course,much needed welders/pipe fitters,etc. BD lived very near this HQ.before moving to the city of RS.

Then we have him in a parole report saying he worked in "Tahoe", the city where Donna Lass vanished-using a "fake driver's license."Seems he also worked as a waiter/bar boy as they were called then. He said he had two females as close friends in Tahoe.Which casinos or hotels in Tahoe he worked at I have not found as of yet.
So I can go on and on ,but it proves my point we ALL need more than these kinds of evidence.

Bless you! So very good you are putting your info out there and keep looking for the hard evidence that will be needed because many Z suspects 'fit.'There are hundreds!!! We all line up lol If your suspect pans out we can all rejoice with you and say it's over jusitce has been done!
I pray it will.



















MADAMEX.zodiackiller.fr wrote:
August 18th, 2017, 4:40 am
Again, this is the information that I gave to police concerning my ex-husband's description as compared to the Zodiac's:

Nick’s Description:
In 1972, when I met Nick, he weighed approximately 165 pounds.  He is five-feet eight-inches tall, stocky (short legs and long, thick body) and has always been a little overweight without being fat.  His hair is dark brown, but almost looks black.  It is very thick and straight with a little wave to it.  At that time, he wore his hair short on the sides and combed back on top in a pompadour.  (He still wears his hair in a similar style, although it is not as thick.)  He also has dark, brown eyes and has never had much facial hair.  During the time that I knew him, he typically wore dark, pleated, pants with a dark, waste-length windbreaker jacket with elastic waist and cuffs.  I have seen recent pictures of him and he still dresses the same way.     

Wing Walker Shoes:Near Bryan Hartnell’s car, detectives found imprints of size 10 ½ Wing Walker Shoes. Nick’s step-father was a Forman in the welding shop at Mare Island where they built nuclear submarines.  As an employee at Mare Island, he would have had Exchange privileges at Travis Air Force Base where they sold Wing Walkers.  Wing Walker shoes were used by aircraft mechanics when they walked on airplane wings.  They were also used by employees at Mare Island when working on nuclear submarines.  Nick wears size 10 or 10 ½ shoes.  

The Hood:    The following was taken from an article in the Napa Register: “She [Cecelia] said he had the hood on, he put the hood on, and there weren’t eye holes,” recalled Collins in a recent interview.  “Instead it was like a welder’s mask, an opening in the front of the mask itself.” Since Nick’s step-father became a welder at Mare Island in the early fifties, it is likely that he owned a welder’s hood like the one that Cecelia described.  (Today, welders wear helmets.)  

The Code:Prior to working at Mare Island, Nick’s step-father was a radioman in the Korean War.  It is said that some of the codes that the Zodiac used were used in World War II and Korea. 

The Zodiac Symbol:Bryan Hartnell told investigators that the Zodiac wore a costume, on the front of which was a circle with a cross through it, identical to the drawings Zodiac included in some of his letters. The circle with a cross is a symbol that was used as the sign of the Zodiac by the occult.  Apparently, both the Zodiac and Darlene Ferrin were involved in the San Francisco occult and possibly the Vallejo occult, known as the Ott Group.  I told two D.A.R.E officers about Nick’s strange behavior (staying out until 4:00 in the morning, possible drug use, etc.) and they both thought that he was probably involved in the Vallejo occult. 

The White Belt at Lake Berryessa:In 1968, Nick was injured in a football accident and dislocated his neck.  He wore a body cast that went from his neck to his waist.  (He later told me that he could walk in it and even partied and danced in it shortly after the accident.)  This would have given him a more pronounced, stocky appearance under his jacket.  The injury would also explain what several witnesses described as a lumbering walk.  (It may have even given him an alibi.) The three sunbathers from the college at Lake Berryessa reported that the Zodiac had a t-shirt hanging out the back.  One girl said that it looked like a belt.  This may have been the bottom of his cast.  

Zodiac’s Description:(The following quotations were taken from Zodiac by Robert Graysmith.) 

February 26, 1969, Darlene Ferrin’s babysitter reported seeing a man with dark hair sitting in a white sedan in front of Darlene’s home.  (Page 14) 

On February 27, 1969, when Darlene dropped by Terry’s Restaurant, she was told a stocky man had been asking questions about her.  (Page 15) 

May 24, 1969, Darlene’s sister, Linda, reported seeing a man who was “overweight” and “five-feet eight-inches tall or so,” at Darlene’s painting party.  (Page 27) 

Mike Mageau described the killer as being “beefy, heavyset without being blubbery fat, perhaps 195 to 200 pounds.”  Mike estimated that he was one head higher than Darlene’s Corvair, about five-feet eight-inches tall.  His pants had pleats but Mike could see that he had a slight potbelly. Darlene’s friends Bobbie, Evelyn and Lois all recalled one particular individual, a short, stocky man with black hair who kept trying to date Darlene.  According to Mike Mageau, the attacker weighed about 160 pounds and combed his hair up in kind of a pompadour and then back.  (Page 39) 

According to the landlady, “Paul” was kind of plump with dark, straight hair.”  (Page 44) According to an eye witness at Lake Berryessa, the killer “was a white adult about five-feet ten-inches tall, with a  heavy build, wearing dark trousers and long-sleeved dark shirt with red coloring.”  He was also wearing a “blue windbreaker jacket.”  (Page 68)  (Perhaps the red in his shirt was blood from stabbing Bryan and Cecelia.) 

Bryan Hartnell said of the voice, “It was like a, a student’s.”  (Nick was 17 at the time.) Also, he wore a lightweight, blue-black windbreaker.  He also wore baggy, pleated slacks.  Bryan also judged him to be between five-foot ten-inches and six-foot one or two inches.  (Bryan said that he could have been a bad judge of height since he was so tall.)  (Page 68) 

Hartnell later said that the guy had dark hair and a greasy forehead.  (Page 77) 

Teenage witnesses described Paul Stine’s killer as wearing a dark jacket, crew-cut hair, bug guy, kinda stocky, husky.  (Page 91) 

They also said, “Looked like he was about five-foot eight-inches tall.  He was wearing a dark navy-blue or black parka-type jacket and dark trousers.  (Page 95) 

Kathleen Johns described her pursuer as being clean-shaven and neatly dressed.  (Page 138) 

She also described him as wearing a dark blue –black nylon windbreaker over black woolen bell-bottom pants.  She went on to say that “His nose was not especially small.”  And that “his jaw wasn’t weak.  He wasn’t a weak type of person and he didn’t have a heavy forehead.  His hair was brown, worn like a crew cut … He wasn’t real big, weighed about 166.” 

The following quotes were taken from Zodiac Unmasked by Robert Graysmith: 

“He was heavy build, approximately five-foot, eight-inches tall.  Short, brown hair …”  (Page 21) 

“The suspect that was observed by officer Fouke was a WMA … five-foot, ten-inches, 180 … pounds.  Medium heavy build – Barrel chested – medium complexion … Crew cut … dressed in dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue).  Elastic cuffs and waistband zipped part way up.  Brown wool pants pleated type baggy in rear … May have been wearing low cut shoes.”  (Page 22) 

“Zodiac presumably sported a healthy head of straight brown hair beneath his hood.  ‘I remember a kind of greasy forehead …’ the surviving Berryessa victim told me later.  He thought the perpetrator had dark brown hair – a lock had shown through dark glasses covering narrow eyelets.”  (Page 32)

“I don’t know how tall Zodiac was, maybe five-foot eight … somewhere in there.”  (Page 33)

“… 10 ½ regular shoe.”  (Page 35) “’The shoes Zodiac wore at Lake Berryessa in September 1969 were sold through base exchanges only.”  (Nick’s step-father worked at Mare Island and had Exchange privileges.)  (Page 127)      
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Joined: February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 pm

September 14th, 2017, 5:03 pm #5

Not sure what Z book has the information MADAMEX is giving for page 32 and 33, but I couldn't find anything that Hartnell said on those pages, those pages were all about Darlene, could be a typo MADAMEX might want to correct?
In one report by Hartnell, he said the hood looked more like a" paper sack". Believe me if it was a welders mask , that would have been in all of the reports.( Welders masks don't have "eye holes") If Nick was 17 in 1969 and was the killer in Lompoc in 1963, he would have been 11 yrs old and only 14 at Riverside. Foulkes said 35 to 45 in 1969.Please don't ignore facts to fit your suspect like so many have done in the past.
If the hood had only "slits" for the eye holes, how could Hartnell see Zodiac's greasy forehead, unless his forehead hung over the eyes?
The costume that was put in my car in Napa on Sept 28th or 29th 1969, had fairly large round holes cut out for the eyes and was made from a paper sack, painted flat black to match the poncho that had the logo on it, not on the "hood"itself.
Hartnell also said that he was able to see the killers jacket collar. There is no way that he could have seen the collar if it was made in one solid piece as described! ( It was in two parts like what was put in my car.) Napa detectives have either ignored that fact or over looked it? The hood was one part of the costume and  the poncho was the other part.
The persons car that the 3 teens at Lake B saw, could not be Zodiac's car, because the wheel base did not match the wheel base of the killers car parked behind Hartnell's car, so we must disregard who they described.( So no white belt or body cast)
 
Reddish brown hair is closer to brown than black, but if brown hair is wet , it can look very dark.The person with the black hair who was trying to get Darlene to go out with him was George Waters, not Zodiac.

Not much information in Graysmiths Z books is factual, many things were made up to point to Art Allen. The only "factual"information in Unmasked was given to Graysmith by our own Tom V.
Graysmith did not give the credit to Tom, instead Graysmith took all of the credit. That paints a different picture for me of Graysmith. It is true that he trusted some of his informants who out and out lied to him, making his book not very credible.
Over the yrs I have bought about 25 of Graysmiths Z book to give to friends, believing most of what was in the book was factual.
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bruce3
DOJ
Joined: June 4th, 2013, 4:53 am

September 14th, 2017, 5:38 pm #6

For my part I do not to be misunderstood. I do not -after reading, several times,reports some of which I got from Z expert Dave Peterson -the LB reports.
No where in those reports does it say that Z was wearing a 'welders hood.' I was only in my post bringing out that whoever Z was he seemed 'comfortable' to some degree wearing a hood due to the fact his vison would be somewhat limited and he knew he was going to confront TWO people one of whom was 6 ft. with his gun. So it was possible he wore a welders helmet at some point in his past and therefore was used to restricted vision just as welders are as their vision has adjusted to this very limited spectrum eye contact and line of vision along with their peripheral vision with the recti and oblique eye muscles accomedating chaning the elongation or contracture of the eye orb all of which I studied. I am not leaving out any other kind of profession where vision is restricted.
I posted in detail on the Z costume- if it be called that -based on all of the reports I have.


















sandy betts wrote:
September 14th, 2017, 5:03 pm
Not sure what Z book has the information MADAMEX is giving for page 32 and 33, but I couldn't find anything that Hartnell said on those pages, those pages were all about Darlene, could be a typo MADAMEX might want to correct?
In one report by Hartnell, he said the hood looked more like a" paper sack". Believe me if it was a welders mask , that would have been in all of the reports.( Welders masks don't have "eye holes") If Nick was 17 in 1969 and was the killer in Lompoc in 1963, he would have been 11 yrs old and only 14 at Riverside. Foulkes said 35 to 45 in 1969.Please don't ignore facts to fit your suspect like so many have done in the past.
If the hood had only "slits" for the eye holes, how could Hartnell see Zodiac's greasy forehead, unless his forehead hung over the eyes?
The costume that was put in my car in Napa on Sept 28th or 29th 1969, had fairly large round holes cut out for the eyes and was made from a paper sack, painted flat black to match the poncho that had the logo on it, not on the "hood"itself.
Hartnell also said that he was able to see the killers jacket collar. There is no way that he could have seen the collar if it was made in one solid piece as described! ( It was in two parts like what was put in my car.) Napa detectives have either ignored that fact or over looked it? The hood was one part of the costume and  the poncho was the other part.
The persons car that the 3 teens at Lake B saw, could not be Zodiac's car, because the wheel base did not match the wheel base of the killers car parked behind Hartnell's car, so we must disregard who they described.( So no white belt or body cast)
 
Reddish brown hair is closer to brown than black, but if brown hair is wet , it can look very dark.The person with the black hair who was trying to get Darlene to go out with him was George Waters, not Zodiac.

Not much information in Graysmiths Z books is factual, many things were made up to point to Art Allen. The only "factual"information in Unmasked was given to Graysmith by our own Tom V.
Graysmith did not give the credit to Tom, instead Graysmith took all of the credit. That paints a different picture for me of Graysmith. It is true that he trusted some of his informants who out and out lied to him, making his book not very credible.
Over the yrs I have bought about 25 of Graysmiths Z book to give to friends, believing most of what was in the book was factual.
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Joined: February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 pm

September 14th, 2017, 7:55 pm #7

Bruce 3, I understood you I always do, I was directing my post to MADAMEX, who missed reading all of the reports, or she wouldn't be thinking that a 17 yr old boy was a very young Zodiac.

I was trying to help her with some of her misinformation.

I doubt that Foukes could have been 20 to almost 30 yrs off on the suspects age walking on Jackson st.
Both of our suspects at least fit into the correct age range and size. BD can be proven to be at nearly all if the Z locations at the correct times. Forensics is what will solve this case and from what I understand, the detectives are working on that right now.
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bruce3
DOJ
Joined: June 4th, 2013, 4:53 am

September 15th, 2017, 1:05 am #8

Sandy,
I know I was using the post as a spring board so that others would know I was advocating for a hood-not a welders helmet/hat that was black and was as our only living witness now or BH described it as well as the rest of Z's garb in the PD reports.












sandy betts wrote:
September 14th, 2017, 7:55 pm
Bruce 3, I understood you I always do, I was directing my post to MADAMEX, who missed reading all of the reports, or she wouldn't be thinking that a 17 yr old boy was a very young Zodiac.

I was trying to help her with some of her misinformation.

I doubt that Foukes could have been 20 to almost 30 yrs off on the suspects age walking on Jackson st.
Both of our suspects at least fit into the correct age range and size. BD can be proven to be at nearly all if the Z locations at the correct times. Forensics is what will solve this case and from what I understand, the detectives are working on that right now.
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ratman
DOJ
Joined: February 24th, 2007, 11:52 pm

September 20th, 2017, 9:31 pm #9

Sandy,
25 Yellowbooks given out?
No wonder there's so much disinformation out there!  lol
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Joined: February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 pm

September 21st, 2017, 2:57 am #10

ratman wrote: Sandy,
25 Yellowbooks given out?
No wonder there's so much disinformation out there!  lol
That is too funny, thanks I needed that.
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