New Zodiac DNA Story

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New Zodiac DNA Story

TomVoigt
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TomVoigt
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Joined: February 21st, 2007, 4:35 am

March 23rd, 2018, 3:47 am #1

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TrevorMSC
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Joined: May 15th, 2014, 8:04 pm

March 23rd, 2018, 4:26 am #2

Good summation of your findings Tom.
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RKZ
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RKZ
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Joined: June 24th, 2008, 9:58 pm

March 23rd, 2018, 2:42 pm #3

It would be so weird if it turns out it really was ALA. I hate the idea of owing Robert Graysmith an apology.
MELVILLE EATS BLUBBER
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ZteveMcQueen
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ZteveMcQueen
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Joined: January 20th, 2018, 5:30 pm

March 23rd, 2018, 5:26 pm #4

RKZ wrote:It would be so weird if it turns out it really was ALA. I hate the idea of owing Robert Graysmith an apology.
The main reason I don’t think it’s ALA is because he doesn’t match the witness descriptions. If it were proven he really was Zodiac it will be held up as one of the great examples of the unreliability of eyewitness accounts.
Zodiac was a liar. There's no reason to assume anything he said was true.
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BugsMoran
DOJ
Joined: April 18th, 2007, 7:25 pm

March 25th, 2018, 12:49 pm #5

Excellent point, Zteve. It would not surprise me if ALA was somehow involved in some of the Zodiac murders. I can't see him being the murderer of Paul Stine.
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I-Love-You
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I-Love-You
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Joined: February 2nd, 2018, 3:08 am

March 25th, 2018, 2:44 pm #6

Maybe ALA was involved in one or two of the murders but not all of them. Hence the reason of the great variance of physical descriptions from witnesses.
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Sierra
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Sierra
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Joined: January 7th, 2015, 12:27 am

March 29th, 2018, 12:56 am #7

ZteveMcQueen wrote:
RKZ wrote:It would be so weird if it turns out it really was ALA. I hate the idea of owing Robert Graysmith an apology.
The main reason I don’t think it’s ALA is because he doesn’t match the witness descriptions. If it were proven he really was Zodiac it will be held up as one of the great examples of the unreliability of eyewitness accounts.
I use to think it was ALA also, but the more I read on this site and other sites led me to the conclusion that someone may have been trying to frame ALA. That doesn't mean ALA wasn't the Zodiac. There is just a lot of (circumstantial ??) evidence out there for other suspects as well.


.
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artyz
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artyz
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Joined: October 8th, 2009, 5:24 am

March 29th, 2018, 10:50 pm #8

Sierra wrote:
ZteveMcQueen wrote:
RKZ wrote:It would be so weird if it turns out it really was ALA. I hate the idea of owing Robert Graysmith an apology.
The main reason I don’t think it’s ALA is because he doesn’t match the witness descriptions. If it were proven he really was Zodiac it will be held up as one of the great examples of the unreliability of eyewitness accounts.
I use to think it was ALA also, but the more I read on this site and other sites led me to the conclusion that someone may have been trying to frame ALA. That doesn't mean ALA wasn't the Zodiac. There is just a lot of (circumstantial ??) evidence out there for other suspects as well.


.
 
I recently saw online copies of mitochondrial DNA testing forensic reports from Riverside PD / FBI. The mtDNA type from hair found in hand/thumb of victim (CJB) did not match RPD’s prime suspect at the time – see link below. This testing was all done in 1999. It would be trivial in principle to submit a blood (or any other tissue type) reference sample (from any suspect) to mtDNA testing and compare to the hair mtDNA type from the CJB case. Has this been done? There were 4 hairs found in CJB hand/thumb. They did not match CJB head hair under microscope exam. These 4 hairs seems HIGHLY LIKELY to be from the killer. If the mtDNA testing comparison that I suggest has not been done, then either the authorities have no interest in perusing this case, or perusing any other suspects - for instance it would also be trivial to obtain a mtDNA type from ALA brain autopsy specimen that SFPD also has/had in their possession. To me, this hair/mtDNA evidence is the clearest path to a breakthrough in the case. I’m becoming cynical that people would rather not solve this case and rather feed off the sensationalism to continue making money and selling books, online ads etc. 
 
The white blood cells (lymphocytes) in blood contain plenty of mtDNA, in addition to nuclear DNA. Red blood cells are the only human cells devoid of mitochondria. Because mitochondrial organelles are present in multiple copies per cell, the mtDNA forensic tests are extremely sensitive (compared to nuclear). That is why mtDNA is most often applies to difficult samples like single hairs and old bones, etc. Obtaining an mtDNA type from blood (stain or tube, whatever) is like shooting fish in a barrel. The only limitation to mtDNA is that the random match probability is not nearly as high as STR used for nuclear. But in a case like Z with a limited suspect pool it will be sufficiently powerful to deliver a breakthrough in the case. 
 
Here is a good summary on mtDNA: https://www.promegaconnections.com/mito ... forensics/

Here's a link to all the hair DNA testing done / Riverside:

http://zodiacrevisited.com/cheri-jo-bat ... -analysis/

Note the reference sample from the RPD 'prime suspect' was blood, i.e. the mtDNA profile from that suspect originated from a tube of blood.
 
In summary, IMHO - anyone sincerely interested in pursuing a legit breakthrough in this case will be primarily interested in comparing suspect mtDNA profiles (obtained from any reference material, like blood, autopsy specimen, bones, even maternal relative) to the EXISTING mtDNA profile from the evidence hair in the Riverside case. This is so straightforward. Am I missing something? Are the authorities really so uninterested that they cannot see this? What about the Discovery channel crew, is this not obvious? They even reported on these 4 hairs in that series. Surely they must be aware of the mtDNA report from RPD/FBI that I posted above???? Tom, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this...you must have some insight??
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TommyT
DOJ
Joined: May 8th, 2007, 5:44 pm

March 30th, 2018, 10:25 pm #9

Sierra wrote:
ZteveMcQueen wrote:
RKZ wrote:It would be so weird if it turns out it really was ALA. I hate the idea of owing Robert Graysmith an apology.
The main reason I don’t think it’s ALA is because he doesn’t match the witness descriptions. If it were proven he really was Zodiac it will be held up as one of the great examples of the unreliability of eyewitness accounts.
I use to think it was ALA also, but the more I read on this site and other sites led me to the conclusion that someone may have been trying to frame ALA. That doesn't mean ALA wasn't the Zodiac. There is just a lot of (circumstantial ??) evidence out there for other suspects as well.


.
Police need to completely start from scratch and re-exam this whole ALA thing, including his associates.  First and Foremost, need to re-interview Cheney and the other guy (does anyone recall the name) who Allen reportedly told.  If say for example neither Cheney or the other guy liked the idea and framed Z, it would be an interesting inquiry as to whether or not they told someone else of ALA's crazy idea.  For that matter, if possible, re-examine any and all of ALAs know associates prior to the Z murders if anyone is even still alive.
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TommyT
DOJ
Joined: May 8th, 2007, 5:44 pm

March 30th, 2018, 10:33 pm #10

So ALA "worked" at Travis Air Force Base in 1963 and Watterson was based at Travis prior to the Z murders.  Did their tenures coincide at all?  Would explain why ALA was IDed by Mageau and Watterson looks like the murderer of Stine; might be interesting to satisfy that two Z theory.   But then we have Berryessa composite.  Hmmm. 
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