NAPA COMPOSITE DRAWING

ZODIAC 37
Discussion of this new Zodiac book by author Madame X should be posted here
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 pm

February 16th, 2018, 4:03 pm #51

v. I am not sure whether my answer concerning Judy (Judith) made it here or not.  But, she was one of Cecelia's friends.  Cecelia was staying with her in her dorm room while she was visiting the college.  
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Joined: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 pm

February 16th, 2018, 4:10 pm #52

The following quote was taken from my book, Zodiac 37, and explains who Judy, or Judith, was.  She also went to Saint Helena with Bryan and Cecelia earlier on the day that they were murdered.  In police reports, the last names, phone numbers and addresses are often whited out, so I have had to give the characters fictitious names in my book.  (I would be glad to replace the fictitious names with their real names if I ever learned of them, but, since it has been nearly fifty years, that probably isn't likely.  On the other hand, some may not want their names in a book about the Zodiac.)  

9:00 p.m., Bryan and Cecelia Arrive at the Hospital
When Bryan and Cecelia finally arrived at the hospital it was nine o’clock p.m., two and a half hours after the attack had taken place.  Hospital personnel immediately rushed out to the emergency parking area to help roll the gurney that Cecelia was on out of the ambulance and into the emergency room.  Then, they returned with a second gurney and helped Bryan out of the ambulance and onto the gurney and rolled him into the emergency room as well.     
 
Upon arrival, both Bryan and Cecelia were found to be in critical condition from their wounds.  Cecelia was going in and out of consciousness and it was doubtful that she would make it, but Bryan seemed to be holding his own and the doctors were optimistic that he would pull through.  
 
Soon, hospital personnel began trying to identify the couple.  One of the nurses got out a questionnaire and clipped it to a clip board, then she began asking Bryan for his personal information and filling in the blanks.  He gave her the following information, Bryan Calvin Hartnell, male, Caucasian, 20 years, DOB 7/1/49, student at Pacific Union College Angwin, California, home address Route 2, Box 252, Troutdale, Oregon. 
 
Cecelia wasn’t able to stay conscious long enough to give her information and Bryan was about to be wheeled into the x-ray room.  He told them to contact her friend, Miss Judith Russell at the college in Angwin since she was one of Cecelia’s closest friends and Cecelia had been staying in her dorm room with her.  He felt certain that she would know Cecelia’s address since they corresponded often.  Besides, at that moment, Bryan couldn’t remember much of anything aside from his own name. 
 
Soon, one of the nurses walked out to the hallway and informed Sergeant Robertson of the situation.  He called the college and got Eric Anderson, the chief security officer, and requested that he attempt to locate Miss Judith Russell.  Mr. Anderson told Robertson that Miss Judith was a student at the college, but that she had left early in the afternoon, driving a yellow Datsun.  Robertson called the sheriff’s office and asked them to relay a message to Sergeant Narlow, who was still at the Napa Car Wash.  Upon receiving the information, Narlow immediately issued an all-points bulletin in an effort to locate the young student.   
 
In the meantime, hospital attendants took Bryan to a room and helped him into a hospital gown.  The difficult part was removing his white shirt which had been saturated with blood and was sticking to his wounds.  Once that was done, they got him back onto the gurney and wheeled him to the x-ray room.      
Last edited by MADAMEX.zodiackiller.fr on February 17th, 2018, 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 pm

February 16th, 2018, 5:13 pm #53

v wrote:
sandy betts wrote: Joku, Believe me I was very disappointed in her attitude. I reminded her that Zodiac could still be killing people , that she could help to get him caught and save some lives! That did not matter to her, she said that was all behind her. 

That was the most frustration I have felt in any of my interviews with people connected to the Zodiac case. Others were willing to help in anyway that they could. There are two words to describe her, F.B. ( And that is not Face BooK) Sorry but I call it as I see it.
Maybe Ms. IW was just making up a story way back when and now wishes she hadn't? And now "wants to put it all behind her"? Or is the attack verified?
Isobel Watson's story was verified that she was indeed attacked by who Dave Toschi believed was the Zodiac. As to your other question , who else saw the costume in my car? The neighbor Betty, who drove me to pick up the car in Napa that day and who helped me carry my baby's things to the car. You apparently have not read my story, because all of the questions you are asking are told in that story about what the man who claims to be Zodiac has done to myself and to others associated to me. The things that were put in the car that day, were things that Zodiac was later known to use. But they were not known to the "general public" at the time they were found. It was impossible for anyone other than the Zodiac to have what was put in the car. Not even the costume had been described in the newspaper yet. If it had, I would have known what it was and would have either phoned the police or driven it to them immediately!

To this day, the costume has not been described correctly, close but not exactly the same, because it was in "two" parts not one solid piece. Now if you are thinking that I am making this up, wouldn't I have gone along with how it was described, if I was making this up, instead of saying it was in two parts?  It would certainly be more believable, had I gone along with how it was later described wouldn't it? 

As soon as it is returned to me and tested for DNA, will be proof enough that it is true what I have been saying all along. How many more lives besides Paul Stine's life could have been saved, had the media described the costume correctly at the end of September1969?
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February 17th, 2018, 2:37 am #54

v wrote:MADAMEX: I am Astrologer in the Bay Area and was curious as to whether or not you might possess/or have access to the birth data of the suspect you write about in your book. I'd be quite interested in seeing if his natal chart could possibly show some inclinations or odd chart patterns that could be indicative of mental health disorders and/or a pre-disposition to violence. If you find that this is not possible, I certainly thank you for your attention. If AVAILABLE I would only need date,time (whether AM or PM) and city and state of birth. Namaste!
MADAMEX.zodiackiller.fr wrote:
sandy betts wrote: I have read every report more than a few times and  have spoken to Dave Collins, who was a school mate of my husband. I have never been told or read, that either Cecelia or Bryan said that the hood looked anything like a welders mask. Bryan said it looked like a paper sack, with four corners and flat on top. I am not the only person here, who has spent many years reading everything about this case, none of them read about a welders mask. I am not calling you a liar, I think that somehow you misinterpreted what you read, being that you had your suspect who did have a welders hood and thought it could be what the Zodiac wore. There would be no way that clip-on sun glasses could attach to a welders hood and for Cecelia to be able to see regular glasses under all of that. A welders mask and a black paper sack look nothing at all alike.
With all due respect for your many years of research, I am only quoting what I read.  Unfortunately, I don't have the references.  Still, I don't feel that the case involving my ex revolves around whether or not the hood was a paper sack or a welder's hood.  (Just like it doesn't revolve around the fact that he typically wrote with a blue, felt-tip marker or the fact that his mom worked at Sears, the same store that sold the JC Higgins gun.)  I just thought that it was interesting. In my opinion, the case revolves more around his geographical profile, his physical description, his likeness to the Napa Composite Drawing, the fact that he owned a Chevy Nova, the fact that his name may appear in three of the Zodiac's coded messages and his handwriting.  As I said before, I feel that the topic of the type of hood the Zodiac wore is very much open for debate and all opinions are welcome.       
Madame: I just realized. You are in the perfect position to get wads of DNA, correct? You can end this mystery if your ex is "him", with DNA comparisons. I'm sure LE has a sample somehow even if they tell you they don't.
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Joined: May 9th, 2017, 9:30 pm

February 17th, 2018, 5:19 am #55

CiCi71,

At this time, I need to be careful about divulging the true identity of my ex, so I can't give you his exact birth date, but I can tell you that he is a Sagittarius.  Sorry, but I don't know what time he was born.  I do reveal in my book that he was born in Denver, Colorado before moving to Vallejo.  I will say, although I am not an expert by any means, that I don't think that he had any problems with mental health disorders or a pre-disposition to violence.  Rather, I think that his problems arose from the fact that he was abandoned by his mom, betrayed by his football coach, etc.  (All of this is in the first half of my book.)  Sorry I could not have been of more help.      
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February 17th, 2018, 9:02 pm #56

MADAMEX.zodiackiller.fr wrote: CiCi71,

At this time, I need to be careful about divulging the true identity of my ex, so I can't give you his exact birth date, but I can tell you that he is a Sagittarius.  Sorry, but I don't know what time he was born.  I do reveal in my book that he was born in Denver, Colorado before moving to Vallejo.  I will say, although I am not an expert by any means, that I don't think that he had any problems with mental health disorders or a pre-disposition to violence.  Rather, I think that his problems arose from the fact that he was abandoned by his mom, betrayed by his football coach, etc.  (All of this is in the first half of my book.)  Sorry I could not have been of more help.      
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Joined: February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 pm

February 18th, 2018, 1:33 am #57

v wrote:
sandy betts wrote: There is a Sandy thread where some of my story is written, spare yourself the time of reading from the start. Go to about page 29 and read from there. I used a model to wear a copy of what the actual costume looked like. That is not the Zodiac wearing the costume in the video! The voice is that of my Zodiac suspect , saying "I like your voice baby , bye bye to you too".
It wasn't just a sack that was put in my car, the whole costume was put there, along with several other things belonging to who I am very sure had to be the Zodiac.
This is the answer to my question of one minute ago, i.e. what is your story? Go to Discussions, look for Sandy Betts?
Go to "General Zodiac Discussion" , scroll down to The Sandy Thread. Start about page 29 for part of my story about a man who claims to be Zodiac who enjoys playing cat and mouse games with me. It all started in Vallejo1968 when I was a waitress there and has been going on and off for years.This older man is about 75 to maybe 80 yrs old and is not dead yet.
The last time I saw him he looked healthy and still very strong. The same story without all of the interruptions and some nice pictures to go along with it is also at Richard Grinnell's Cipher site. However at the end of my story part one, there are two bullies making sick comments, one I recognize as a long time enemy of a few of us here. He uses the names Final Fury and Lemon boy on Grinnell's site, now he is hiding his name for fear of being sued for his slanderous comments. It is one thing not to believe what I have to say, I am fine with that , but to accuse me of lying and making up a story to get attention is defamation and slanderous. I agree it is hard to believe, but it is true and without any embellishments to make it interesting. I try not to defend myself, because it just adds to the fire ,is what Richard Grinnell has told me. So I stay away from reading the nasty comments.

To see what the costume looked like that was put in my car in Napa shortly after the Lake B crime and to hear the stalkers voice saying "Bye Bye to you too baby.  That can be seen and heard on You Tube under "Enhanced voice of man claiming to be Zodiac". It is hard to understand what he is saying ,so a friend from Morfs site cleaned the recording up to help make it easier to understand, that is why the word "enhanced" is used. He hangs up as soon as I picked up the call , the word coward isn't good enough for him. The best recording of this man who says he is Zodiac, is held in the evidence room at SFPD  sense 1990, along with other Z evidence that I would like to get back but can't.
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Joined: February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 pm

February 19th, 2018, 5:37 pm #58

V, you asked how would a paper sack stay in place while Z was stabbing his victims? That had to be the purpose of him using the clip on sun glasses over the outside of the hood , which were connected to his regular glasses under the hood. The copy I made was worn by a few to see how it would work if you did turn your head using the clip on glasses.
Those clip on's secured the hood in place without any problems when turning from side to side.  The only problem using paper is that paper doesn't breathe like material does, so it gets very warm under the paper hood and you sweat like Zodiac did that day. It was actually a clever way for Zodiac to hide his face without having to sew a hood. I am a seamstress and believe me it would have been impossible for Z to sew something stiff enough to stand straight up with four corners and a perfectly flat top. It would take a wire frame to have it do that, using material and attaching that material to the stiff wire. Hartnell said it looked like a paper sack , because that is what it was, except it was painted flat black so that it did match the black material. The proof will be when it is returned to me and the DNA is done, it will have the victims DNA on it. There is no way that a copy cat would have access to their blood. I have something else that also has blood on it which was left with the costume that day. But the detectives only want to test the blood on the costume. I have it kept in a safety deposit box for safe keeping and to preserve the DNA on it. Lt. Banducchi of Napa PD, told me in 1990 , that I am the only person he knows of, who has actual evidence belonging to Zodiac. He wanted me to hold on to what I have and wait for him to get the FBI lab to test it. He told me that he reads this site and likes it very much.
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Joined: February 23rd, 2007, 11:25 pm

March 8th, 2018, 8:02 pm #59

MadameX, Here is your quote:
With all due respect for your many years of research, I am only quoting what I read.  Unfortunately, I don't have the references.  Still, I don't feel that the case involving my ex revolves around whether or not the hood was a paper sack or a welder's hood.  (Just like it doesn't revolve around the fact that he typically wrote with a blue, felt-tip marker or the fact that his mom worked at Sears, the same store that sold the JC Higgins gun.)  I just thought that it was interesting. In my opinion, the case revolves more around his geographical profile, his physical description, his likeness to the Napa Composite Drawing, the fact that he owned a Chevy Nova, the fact that his name may appear in three of the Zodiac's coded messages and his handwriting.  As I said before, I feel that the topic of the type of hood the Zodiac wore is very much open for debate and all opinions are welcome.  

MadameX, What you are hot understanding about the significance of the " costume" that was put in my car , is that it is a" direct connection" to the "real killer". You are down playing real evidence, not a blue felt pen or the other garbage you have thrown in.
This is not about someone that I am thinking could "possibly" be the killer, because he was upset with his coach and left by his mother. There is a huge difference between your ex and my suspect . My suspect has called the police to tell them where to find one of his victims body's and telling them that he is Zodiac. I don't believe that that was just a coincidence, the Pittsburg Ca. police didn't want to believe that they actually received a call from the real Zodiac after so many years.
I have an actual victim who survived being stabbed to death by my suspect in the mid 90's. She positively ID'd the picture I was showing to some of her friends. I was showing them his picture to try to save the girls from getting into his truck or car. I never mentioned that I felt he was the Zodiac, to any of the girls I spoke to. And I had no idea that someone claiming to be Zodiac was claiming to be their killer at that time . I was given that information years later, from a retired detective who worked some of those cases in Pittsburg Ca.
I am sure that your book is interesting and I hope you sell many. I have been asked many times to write one. I started to do that , then I thought that people might think that I am looking to make money on the backs of the victims. But if getting the word out that Zodiac is still out there and I could save even one life,perhaps I should go ahead and do it? I would like to give the money it makes to researching more advances in DNA and getting these serial killers caught. I believe that the victims and their families would appreciate that.
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