Katleen Johns said Zodiac called her and later sent a Halloween card to her in 1970

bruce3
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Joined: 4:53 AM - Jun 04, 2013

10:08 PM - Jan 16, 2018 #1

We know Zodiac in his July 24.1970 letter mentions Kathleen Johns as well as her infant;"So I now have a little list starting with the woeman & her baby that I gave a rather interesting ride for a coupple howers one evening a few months back that ended in my burning her car where I found them."
It was this letter that caused her to go 'underground' as it were ;but she was later found by GS due to a card address.This was good detective work on his part. She told me his interview with her as published in his book Zodiac was when she was in good health and had a good memory of the events.
She also told us that after the terror ride the stranger contacted her by phone and called her a few times and harassed her,etc.She also said that he sent her a Halloween card saying, 'To the woman (or lady) in the blue station wagon.' She said that the fact he names the kind of vehicle-a station wagon- she drove and it's color showed her it was the same man as articles did not give these two facts. If he addressed her as a woeman or by the same unusal spelling as his 7/24/70 letter then that would be of interest too. He would expect his writing style would indicate-coupled with the 10/27/670 Halloween card sent to Avery- that this missive was from him as he ,no doubt ,expected it to be given to LE. She said she mailed this letter with envelope to Paul Avery. He later told us he had not received it. It could have been lost or misplaced just as the Z(?) S.F. Chronicle1990 Christmas card was. Either way not unusal. Also,she may not have placed her return address on it since she wished to remain in hiding; so if there was an incorrect address or any other issue it could not be sent back to her. So dead letter file at the PO.

Now I was asked how did Z or this stranger get her phone number and address? I talked with my daughter last Sunday evening about this. She is an excellent researcher and very intelligent with intuition so I hoped for some kind of an answer. She said he got into her wagon and simply removed the reg.papers from the glove box! This gave him all the info he needed.
Johns told me he entered her wagon to shut off her vehicle's lights. He burned her vehicle,I think, for revenge as well to destroy any prints/trace evidence,etc. Also,for publicity.
At this time he probably thought she's not coming back so he could get any info he needed later. He wasn't thinking she could escape at this point of time! Of course,later before setting her vehicle on fire he could easily have obtained her reg. forms then from the glove box.

As to the statement in his letter where he says he burned her car 'where he found them' is close enough. Z sometimes estimated distances,places,etc. For example, he says in his 10/13/69 letter where he says he killed the taxi driver "...over by Washington st & Maple..."This was not the exact location.It was a quick estimate.Even in the Confession the writer says he left the library "...after about two minuts."[sic-another Z trait incorrect spellings]."
He is not saying he didn't take her vehicle to another(probably by rope/chain towing it-no problem I have done this) location from the initial spot where he picked up Johns.It was a short distance away.With time estimates he said, 'about 10 minutes'-same for distance-'about.' He did 'find' her on 132 or 'where he found them.' .An estimate
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ceve
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ceve
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Joined: 11:43 PM - Feb 25, 2014

2:56 PM - Feb 14, 2018 #2

bruce3 wrote: We know Zodiac in his July 24.1970 letter mentions Kathleen Johns as well as her infant;"So I now have a little list starting with the woeman & her baby that I gave a rather interesting ride for a coupple howers one evening a few months back that ended in my burning her car where I found them."
It was this letter that caused her to go 'underground' as it were ;but she was later found by GS due to a card address.This was good detective work on his part. She told me his interview with her as published in his book Zodiac was when she was in good health and had a good memory of the events.
She also told us that after the terror ride the stranger contacted her by phone and called her a few times and harassed her,etc.She also said that he sent her a Halloween card saying, 'To the woman (or lady) in the blue station wagon.' She said that the fact he names the kind of vehicle-a station wagon- she drove and it's color showed her it was the same man as articles did not give these two facts. If he addressed her as a woeman or by the same unusal spelling as his 7/24/70 letter then that would be of interest too. He would expect his writing style would indicate-coupled with the 10/27/670 Halloween card sent to Avery- that this missive was from him as he ,no doubt ,expected it to be given to LE. She said she mailed this letter with envelope to Paul Avery. He later told us he had not received it. It could have been lost or misplaced just as the Z(?) S.F. Chronicle1990 Christmas card was. Either way not unusal. Also,she may not have placed her return address on it since she wished to remain in hiding; so if there was an incorrect address or any other issue it could not be sent back to her. So dead letter file at the PO.

Now I was asked how did Z or this stranger get her phone number and address? I talked with my daughter last Sunday evening about this. She is an excellent researcher and very intelligent with intuition so I hoped for some kind of an answer. She said he got into her wagon and simply removed the reg.papers from the glove box! This gave him all the info he needed.
Johns told me he entered her wagon to shut off her vehicle's lights. He burned her vehicle,I think, for revenge as well to destroy any prints/trace evidence,etc. Also,for publicity.
At this time he probably thought she's not coming back so he could get any info he needed later. He wasn't thinking she could escape at this point of time!  Of course,later before setting her vehicle on fire he could easily have obtained her reg. forms then from the glove box.

As to the statement in his letter where he says he burned her car 'where he found them' is close enough. Z sometimes estimated distances,places,etc. For example, he says in his 10/13/69 letter where he says he killed the taxi driver  "...over by Washington st & Maple..."This was not the exact location.It was a quick estimate.Even in the Confession the writer says he left the library "...after about two minuts."[sic-another Z trait incorrect spellings]."
He is not saying he didn't take her vehicle to another(probably by rope/chain towing it-no problem I have done this) location from the initial spot where he picked up Johns.It was a short distance away.With time estimates he said, 'about 10 minutes'-same for distance-'about.' He did 'find' her on 132 or 'where he found them.' .An estimate
I wonder whether the kidnapping/car ride/burning incident was publicized before the letter was received. If not, this had to be Z writing. But if it was in the news just about anybody could have written the letter. I'm glad the lady found a peaceful place to live, thank God.
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Joined: 11:25 PM - Feb 23, 2007

5:44 PM - Feb 14, 2018 #3

The letter writer / caller gave details that only he would know. This is a trait that Zodiac was known to do by others who got away from him. Many don't don't know that a person claiming to be Zodiac harassed Darlene's mother after he killed her daughter. He would wait until after Darlene's father left for work in the evening and then would call and tell her that he was going to kill her other children. VPD told her that it was probably a sick neighbor who was calling her????  Zodiac likes to instill fear as much as he likes to kill. Kathleen Johns gave the best description of anyone who saw Zodiac, she was very lucky that she got away from him! He threatened to kill Paul Avery and Kathleen Johns, yet he let them live in fear of him. That is also part of his game that people don't seem to understand. 
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nonsmokinggun
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Joined: 6:59 AM - Feb 08, 2015

9:15 PM - Feb 14, 2018 #4

Shame that got lost in the mail. Not that I think we would have any clearer of an idea of who or where he was but it would be nice to have all the evidence.
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Druzer
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Druzer
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Joined: 5:58 PM - Oct 02, 2017

11:02 PM - Feb 14, 2018 #5

I have never heard the detail about the caller mentioning a blue station wagon or the somewhat reasonable explanation for how she lost the card. Any idea when the call was made or when the card arrived?
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nonsmokinggun
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Joined: 6:59 AM - Feb 08, 2015

11:43 PM - Feb 14, 2018 #6

I can't imagine the horrors her or any of the other survivors must feel/felt knowing he is still out there.
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joku
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joku
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Joined: 3:15 PM - Oct 13, 2017

11:55 PM - Feb 14, 2018 #7

Why did she send the card to Paul Avery and not straight to the police? If she was scared of being attacked by Zodiac again, isn't it of least risk to send his threat directly to law enforcement? Not doing this is something I could never understand.
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nonsmokinggun
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Joined: 6:59 AM - Feb 08, 2015

12:06 AM - Feb 15, 2018 #8

Good point. I guess she wasn't thinking straight.
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Joined: 11:25 PM - Feb 23, 2007

3:51 AM - Feb 15, 2018 #9

When the police don't listen or don't believe you, you go to someone who will. (That is my guess?) I know that when I found the Zodiac watch box with the name and logo together in a second hand store window.  I gave Paul Avery that information ,so that it wouldn't fall on deaf ears. I knew that if Paul told the police ,they would listen to him and he would be a witness to what was found.
He gave that information to Graysmith and then it was given to the police. Before that, the logo was thought to be a gun sight and the name Zodiac was something the killer named himself.( "Time" was important to Zodiac.)

Kathleen didn't lose the card ,she did as I did and sent to someone who she knew cared about the case.

Bruce3 would know when she receive that card, I thought it was around the same time as Paul received his? Maybe that was why she sent hers to Paul, for him to do a comparison? There is a pretty good chance that Paul received the card and either gave it to the police or he misplaced it? I do know that most of what was sent to him, he gave to Graysmith, according to what Graysmith told me. I do believe RG, because Paul did give him my letter about the watch box.

Kathleen received more than one call from her abductor. He wanted to let her know that he was watching her and that he knew she gave birth to another baby girl. As far as I know he doesn't stop calling his victims. Mike M and Bryan probably got calls , but may have thought it was a hoax? I was told that Mike M said he came home once and everything was taken from his apartment down south.
Who knows if that was Zodiac or not, we do not know everything that Zodiac is capable of doing.
 
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Joined: 9:30 PM - May 09, 2017

1:48 PM - Feb 15, 2018 #10

bruce3 wrote: We know Zodiac in his July 24.1970 letter mentions Kathleen Johns as well as her infant;"So I now have a little list starting with the woeman & her baby that I gave a rather interesting ride for a coupple howers one evening a few months back that ended in my burning her car where I found them."
It was this letter that caused her to go 'underground' as it were ;but she was later found by GS due to a card address.This was good detective work on his part. She told me his interview with her as published in his book Zodiac was when she was in good health and had a good memory of the events.
She also told us that after the terror ride the stranger contacted her by phone and called her a few times and harassed her,etc.She also said that he sent her a Halloween card saying, 'To the woman (or lady) in the blue station wagon.' She said that the fact he names the kind of vehicle-a station wagon- she drove and it's color showed her it was the same man as articles did not give these two facts. If he addressed her as a woeman or by the same unusal spelling as his 7/24/70 letter then that would be of interest too. He would expect his writing style would indicate-coupled with the 10/27/670 Halloween card sent to Avery- that this missive was from him as he ,no doubt ,expected it to be given to LE. She said she mailed this letter with envelope to Paul Avery. He later told us he had not received it. It could have been lost or misplaced just as the Z(?) S.F. Chronicle1990 Christmas card was. Either way not unusal. Also,she may not have placed her return address on it since she wished to remain in hiding; so if there was an incorrect address or any other issue it could not be sent back to her. So dead letter file at the PO.

Now I was asked how did Z or this stranger get her phone number and address? I talked with my daughter last Sunday evening about this. She is an excellent researcher and very intelligent with intuition so I hoped for some kind of an answer. She said he got into her wagon and simply removed the reg.papers from the glove box! This gave him all the info he needed.
Johns told me he entered her wagon to shut off her vehicle's lights. He burned her vehicle,I think, for revenge as well to destroy any prints/trace evidence,etc. Also,for publicity.
At this time he probably thought she's not coming back so he could get any info he needed later. He wasn't thinking she could escape at this point of time!  Of course,later before setting her vehicle on fire he could easily have obtained her reg. forms then from the glove box.

As to the statement in his letter where he says he burned her car 'where he found them' is close enough. Z sometimes estimated distances,places,etc. For example, he says in his 10/13/69 letter where he says he killed the taxi driver  "...over by Washington st & Maple..."This was not the exact location.It was a quick estimate.Even in the Confession the writer says he left the library "...after about two minuts."[sic-another Z trait incorrect spellings]."
He is not saying he didn't take her vehicle to another(probably by rope/chain towing it-no problem I have done this) location from the initial spot where he picked up Johns.It was a short distance away.With time estimates he said, 'about 10 minutes'-same for distance-'about.' He did 'find' her on 132 or 'where he found them.' .An estimate
Bruce3, I am assuming that the registration wasn't found in John's car since the car was burned.  But, the thought that the Zodiac may have taken it is interesting.  He may not have kept souvenirs from his first crimes (the young boy at Lake Berryessa didn't mention that the man he saw was carrying a hood and a bayonet was later found near the shore) but perhaps he kept John's car registration as well as Stine's glasses and car keys.   
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