Has anyone looked at Ron Allen as a possible suspect?

Discussion of all other Zodiac suspects should be posted here

Has anyone looked at Ron Allen as a possible suspect?

Valley209
Newbie
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 03:11

11 Feb 2018, 03:21 #1

I am new to this world of Zodiac research.  THFTZK sparked my interest and I have been trying to keep up with all the info at zodiackiller.com.  Also, I have been reading several books about Zodiac including the Graysmith books.  I am amazed at the years and years (decades) of information, research, evidence, and theories about Zodiac available to everyone.

My initial observations are:
  • There is a lot of evidence, some good and some not so good, collected and published in various places.
  • There isn’t enough “smoking gun” evidence to identify the Zodiac, let alone produce an arrest.
  • A list of possible suspects has been circulating based on available evidence, analysis, and speculation.
  • Apparently, none of the suspects or POI match the available evidence and analysis 100% (i.e. smoking gun).
  • Arthur Leigh Allen seems to be the “frontrunner” of possible suspects and the focus of a lot of LE investigations.
One thing I thought was unusual was that Ron Allen is listed as a POI.  Maybe he was investigated 30 years ago as a POI.  There has been very little written or documented about him (and his wife).  I am not suggesting that Ron Allen is the Zodiac or should even be listed as a possible suspect.  However, if he has not been investigated, I wonder why he has not been scrutinized like other POIs.  

Here are my thoughts:
  • There is a considerable amount of evidence and information pointing to ALA.
  • ALA is intelligent but lacking a lot of social and personal skills, even described as a sociopath.  ALA had problems being around children, arrested, and spent time in Atascadero.
  • Zodiac put a lot of time and effort into his killings including providing evidence in the letters and codes sent to LE and various people.  
  • Even though ALA is intelligent, I wonder if he had the necessary organization and housekeeping skills to plan and execute the killings, write the letters and ciphers, and not leave ANY evidence around.  
  • Can a serial killer be a sociopath and have problems around children?  It seems to me the assumption is that because ALA was arrested, he is a bad person, therefore he is capable of killing people. 
  • ALA never confessed to being Zodiac.  He never hid from anyone his time in Atascadero or why he was sent there.  
  • ALA passed a polygraph test but the examiner said that he passed it because he is a sociopath.  Was ALA clinically diagnosed as a sociopath?  If not, it is a very stupid thing for the examiner to say.  ALA may have exhibited many characteristics of a sociopath; however, that is not the same as a clinical diagnosis.  If ALA wasn’t a sociopath, would he have been treated differently by LE?
  • Some of the letters and job applications written by ALA seem to be written “normally”, not anything like the Zodiac letters.
  • ALA was investigated by LE for over 20 years including two search warrants.  I think anyone being investigated for 20 years would drive them crazy, especially if any part of the investigation or search warrants were made public.  Who wants to have people slowly driving by their home staring in looking for anything, or having reporters and other curious people show up on the doorstep?  It was often said that ALA was quick to anger.  Are there any examples of ALA lashing out in anger when triggered?   
  • Ron Allen grew up with similar family DNA and the same family environment as ALA.  Whatever shaped ALA growing up mentally and emotionally might be said about Ron Allen.  
  • Growing up together as brothers, they probably shared a lot of likes, dislikes, and other personal stuff that we do not know about. Reported conversations ALA had with Cheney and others may have been told to Ron or maybe came from Ron talking to ALA.
  • What little is said about Ron Allen is that he seems to be “Mr. Clean” and “Mr. Nice Guy” compared to ALA.  He and his wife seem victimized by ALA’s actions and him possibly being the Zodiac.
  • There seems to be animosity between ALA and Ron.  Ron seemed to be upset about his brother’s problem with children.
  • It seems like every time Ron Allen is mentioned, he is either being questioned by police or asking LE to question ALA because Ron and his wife think ALA might be Zodiac.  I think there are several tips to LE that were never identified who made the tip.  Could Ron have been the anonymous tipster?
  • The story about Ron’s wife seeing ALA with a paper with symbols written on them coming he put into a box. Was this box or paper ever found?
  • Ron or his wife told LE about ALA handing out recipes having words deliberately misspelled, just like Zodiac.  Are there any other examples of ALA’s writings with deliberately misspelled words?
  • Ron’s wife somehow ended up at the same psychiatrist that was treating ALA. Coincidence?
  • Ron was a City Planner and may have had access to much of the evidence and reports collected for Zodiac.
  • We don’t know what conversations Ron and ALA had during any of the investigations.  Ron knew how “unhinged” his brother was and may have tried to take advantage of it by gaslighting ALA into thinking he really was the Zodiac.
  • Ron probably had easy access to his mom’s house and ALA’s basement allowing him to plant a lot of evidence implicating ALA. (How about buying a Royal typewriter at a flea market and put it in ALA’s basement? How about a small flashlight? Or a knife?  LE might get excited about this stuff! Another example are the “bomb making materials” found during the second search.  LE asked ALA about it.  These materials may have been planted by someone (Ron?) and since ALA wasn’t the neatest person, he may have never knew about the materials. ALA came up with a story that a con man he knew may have put them there which LE determined was a lie.  I probably would have lied if confronted by LE about bomb making materials I knew nothing about.  “I don’t know” isn’t a very good answer!)
If Ron Allen was the Zodiac (and there is no evidence to support this), he may have used misdirection to deliberately point LE to ALA as the possible Zodiac suspect to prevent anyone investigating Ron.  Ron’s wife may have been part of the misdirection claiming ALA had papers with strange symbols.  Could Ron or his wife have planted the papers?  

If Ron Allen wasn’t the Zodiac, he may have disliked his brother so much that he deliberately pointed LE to his brother and possibly planted what he thought was enough evidence to have LE arrest ALA. It seemed like after some time, Ron was asking LE when they were going to arrest ALA.  Didn’t they have enough evidence?  If ALA was locked up in prison for a long time, he would no longer be able to mess around with children or mess up Ron’s life.  Ron may have permanently damaged the Zodiac investigation...

I’m not saying that ALA is or is not Zodiac.  I am not saying that Ron is or is not the Zodiac.  But…. Has Ron undergone the same scrutiny as ALA or other POIs?  If not, why not? 
Reply
Like

RKZ
Newbie
RKZ
Newbie
Joined: 24 Jun 2008, 21:58

12 Feb 2018, 19:39 #2

Wouldn't the DNA evidence rule out Ron if it ruled out Arthur? I thought that DNA could connect members of the same family. If it ruled out Arthur, then I would suspect that it would rule out his brother. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Also, has it been established with 100% certainty that the DNA that LE have is Zodiac's? There is a thread that's very popular explaining that the DNA evidence that LE has is probably not from Zodiac.
MELVILLE EATS BLUBBER
Reply
Like

Not You
Newbie
Not You
Newbie
Joined: 23 Sep 2012, 02:30

13 Feb 2018, 13:31 #3

RKZ wrote: Wouldn't the DNA evidence rule out Ron if it ruled out Arthur? I thought that DNA could connect members of the same family. If it ruled out Arthur, then I would suspect that it would rule out his brother. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Also, has it been established with 100% certainty that the DNA that LE have is Zodiac's? There is a thread that's very popular explaining that the DNA evidence that LE has is probably not from Zodiac.
You answered your own question really! Tom received info that casts a lot of doubt on the DNA being Zodiac’s; it certainly could be but learning the way the DNA was obtained from the envelope (on the front rather than saliva from under the stamp as previously thought) means it could really have come from anyone (for instance a postal employee). So whilst the DNA could be Zodiacs it’s probably unwise to rule anyone out entirely because of it. That’s my understanding anyway
Reply
Like

db2010
Old Newbie
db2010
Old Newbie
Joined: 01 Aug 2010, 03:40

13 Feb 2018, 14:13 #4

Valley209 wrote: I am new to this world of Zodiac research.  THFTZK sparked my interest and I have been trying to keep up with all the info at zodiackiller.com.  Also, I have been reading several books about Zodiac including the Graysmith books.  I am amazed at the years and years (decades) of information, research, evidence, and theories about Zodiac available to everyone.

My initial observations are:
  • There is a lot of evidence, some good and some not so good, collected and published in various places.
  • There isn’t enough “smoking gun” evidence to identify the Zodiac, let alone produce an arrest.
  • A list of possible suspects has been circulating based on available evidence, analysis, and speculation.
  • Apparently, none of the suspects or POI match the available evidence and analysis 100% (i.e. smoking gun).
  • Arthur Leigh Allen seems to be the “frontrunner” of possible suspects and the focus of a lot of LE investigations.
One thing I thought was unusual was that Ron Allen is listed as a POI.  Maybe he was investigated 30 years ago as a POI.  There has been very little written or documented about him (and his wife).  I am not suggesting that Ron Allen is the Zodiac or should even be listed as a possible suspect.  However, if he has not been investigated, I wonder why he has not been scrutinized like other POIs.  

Here are my thoughts:
  • There is a considerable amount of evidence and information pointing to ALA.
  • ALA is intelligent but lacking a lot of social and personal skills, even described as a sociopath.  ALA had problems being around children, arrested, and spent time in Atascadero.
  • Zodiac put a lot of time and effort into his killings including providing evidence in the letters and codes sent to LE and various people.  
  • Even though ALA is intelligent, I wonder if he had the necessary organization and housekeeping skills to plan and execute the killings, write the letters and ciphers, and not leave ANY evidence around.  
  • Can a serial killer be a sociopath and have problems around children?  It seems to me the assumption is that because ALA was arrested, he is a bad person, therefore he is capable of killing people. 
  • ALA never confessed to being Zodiac.  He never hid from anyone his time in Atascadero or why he was sent there.  
  • ALA passed a polygraph test but the examiner said that he passed it because he is a sociopath.  Was ALA clinically diagnosed as a sociopath?  If not, it is a very stupid thing for the examiner to say.  ALA may have exhibited many characteristics of a sociopath; however, that is not the same as a clinical diagnosis.  If ALA wasn’t a sociopath, would he have been treated differently by LE?
  • Some of the letters and job applications written by ALA seem to be written “normally”, not anything like the Zodiac letters.
  • ALA was investigated by LE for over 20 years including two search warrants.  I think anyone being investigated for 20 years would drive them crazy, especially if any part of the investigation or search warrants were made public.  Who wants to have people slowly driving by their home staring in looking for anything, or having reporters and other curious people show up on the doorstep?  It was often said that ALA was quick to anger.  Are there any examples of ALA lashing out in anger when triggered?   
  • Ron Allen grew up with similar family DNA and the same family environment as ALA.  Whatever shaped ALA growing up mentally and emotionally might be said about Ron Allen.  
  • Growing up together as brothers, they probably shared a lot of likes, dislikes, and other personal stuff that we do not know about. Reported conversations ALA had with Cheney and others may have been told to Ron or maybe came from Ron talking to ALA.
  • What little is said about Ron Allen is that he seems to be “Mr. Clean” and “Mr. Nice Guy” compared to ALA.  He and his wife seem victimized by ALA’s actions and him possibly being the Zodiac.
  • There seems to be animosity between ALA and Ron.  Ron seemed to be upset about his brother’s problem with children.
  • It seems like every time Ron Allen is mentioned, he is either being questioned by police or asking LE to question ALA because Ron and his wife think ALA might be Zodiac.  I think there are several tips to LE that were never identified who made the tip.  Could Ron have been the anonymous tipster?
  • The story about Ron’s wife seeing ALA with a paper with symbols written on them coming he put into a box. Was this box or paper ever found?
  • Ron or his wife told LE about ALA handing out recipes having words deliberately misspelled, just like Zodiac.  Are there any other examples of ALA’s writings with deliberately misspelled words?
  • Ron’s wife somehow ended up at the same psychiatrist that was treating ALA. Coincidence?
  • Ron was a City Planner and may have had access to much of the evidence and reports collected for Zodiac.
  • We don’t know what conversations Ron and ALA had during any of the investigations.  Ron knew how “unhinged” his brother was and may have tried to take advantage of it by gaslighting ALA into thinking he really was the Zodiac.
  • Ron probably had easy access to his mom’s house and ALA’s basement allowing him to plant a lot of evidence implicating ALA. (How about buying a Royal typewriter at a flea market and put it in ALA’s basement? How about a small flashlight? Or a knife?  LE might get excited about this stuff! Another example are the “bomb making materials” found during the second search.  LE asked ALA about it.  These materials may have been planted by someone (Ron?) and since ALA wasn’t the neatest person, he may have never knew about the materials. ALA came up with a story that a con man he knew may have put them there which LE determined was a lie.  I probably would have lied if confronted by LE about bomb making materials I knew nothing about.  “I don’t know” isn’t a very good answer!)
If Ron Allen was the Zodiac (and there is no evidence to support this), he may have used misdirection to deliberately point LE to ALA as the possible Zodiac suspect to prevent anyone investigating Ron.  Ron’s wife may have been part of the misdirection claiming ALA had papers with strange symbols.  Could Ron or his wife have planted the papers?  

If Ron Allen wasn’t the Zodiac, he may have disliked his brother so much that he deliberately pointed LE to his brother and possibly planted what he thought was enough evidence to have LE arrest ALA. It seemed like after some time, Ron was asking LE when they were going to arrest ALA.  Didn’t they have enough evidence?  If ALA was locked up in prison for a long time, he would no longer be able to mess around with children or mess up Ron’s life.  Ron may have permanently damaged the Zodiac investigation...

I’m not saying that ALA is or is not Zodiac.  I am not saying that Ron is or is not the Zodiac.  But…. Has Ron undergone the same scrutiny as ALA or other POIs?  If not, why not? 
It is simply out of the realm of reality and possibility that one single person fits all of that. It's a multiple person crime. Multiple personalities. Multiple personality disorders. Multiple killers. Multiple taunters (real or copycat). Multiple cult or cults. Killing and robbing souls is their business and business is still good. Why is there no more "Zodiac"?. Why is there no more "Mafia". Because they "grew up" and became legitimate entities in society. The "Mafia' became your government. So what do you think the "Cult Zodiac" became? Remember now, all of these entities have had 50 years now to perfect their "craft" and they're not getting dumber or less skilled at it.
Reply
Like

Valley209
Newbie
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 03:11

14 Feb 2018, 01:18 #5

RKZ wrote: Wouldn't the DNA evidence rule out Ron if it ruled out Arthur? I thought that DNA could connect members of the same family. If it ruled out Arthur, then I would suspect that it would rule out his brother. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Also, has it been established with 100% certainty that the DNA that LE have is Zodiac's? There is a thread that's very popular explaining that the DNA evidence that LE has is probably not from Zodiac.
I was thinking about this very question while writing my original post.  There has been a lot of speculation and discussion about two people working together as Zodiac.  What if Ron's wife helped him?  Her DNA would not match ALA's DNA.  The other point-of-view that if the DNA matched Ron, then ALA may closely match as a family member.  It might be a close enough match to confirm ALA as the Zodiac when he wasn't; he was just a family member...  Again, I am not saying ALA is or isn't Zodiac.  I'm just wondering if Ron and his wife were ever scrutinized as suspects.

To me it sounds like right now DNA may not be helpful.  We may have to wait for newer technology to better investigate whatever DNA is available. 
Reply
Like