What is the longest distance you can shoot dime sized groups?

What is the longest distance you can shoot dime sized groups?

Joined: February 8th, 2010, 2:41 pm

February 18th, 2010, 3:48 pm #1

After doing much research I am still at a loss as to how well I "Should" be able to shoot my Marauder? Someone even has a post about showing your groups etc. Inevitably people are going to show their "Best" groups. I'm looking for real world consistant data. I do realize all the variables. i.e. Every gun is different etc. But, I see so many things! "Marauders are Great". "Marauders a terrible." I can shoot 200 shots all in the same hole from 400 yards, with a 40 mph crosswind". So I guess I'm looking for realistic examples. I can say I can shoot dime sized groups at 20 yards. Using mutliple holds, and even using a high end shooting rest. I have only shot 30 shots from 50 yards and I would guess 3-4 inch groups. I have shot high level competative archery for years, so I do understand how the small things make a diference. i.e. a very sloooow pull, Breating control, cant etc. If I shot five, ten shot groups I would probably have one or two "Flyers", that would be outside a dime. I have shot every pellet imaginable. I have purchased two diferent "Sample Packs", and I would guess 15-20 diferent models/brands as well. The best I have found are The Brown Box Crosman Premiers, and Beeman FTS. There are a few that shoot O.K. and the rest are like Buckshot. Again, I'm just looking for realistic comparisions so I can have an idea of where I can or should be. Maybe also add if your gun has been "Tuned" and to what extent? Thus, helping me decide if that is required to shoot "Great" groups. Thanks in advance!

Brett

P.S. I am not intending on this being some sort of compatition. Kind of like in the Movie "Caddie Shack", when Judge Elihu Smails ask Ty Webb, how do you compare yourself to other Golfers if you don't keep score? His answer...... "By Height".
Last edited by Such5 on February 18th, 2010, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 12th, 2004, 6:35 pm

February 18th, 2010, 5:03 pm #2

should be able to shoot groups that average in the 1/2 to 3/4 inch range,under ideal conditions. Then some "one holers" from time to time. There are "tricks" that make a gun shoot better than average too. Don't expect to shoot one holers from a back pack,or a rolled up sweat shirt/jacket. A quality benchrest,and bags,plus bench, are required to consistantly produce extreem accuracy (one ragged hole at 50yds.with a air rifle) There are so many varibles that have to be sorted out,that it would be hard to list them all. I shot NRA High Power Bench Rest Matches for years,and it ONLY took 3 years for me to win my first match!LOL! That was also the FIRST time I ever got all 5 shots in the same group/hole! If your gun will shoot around 3/4 inches, you will hit most of the targets you shoot at. Don't be afraid to experiment with diffrent rest,pellets,tunes,ect. Keep alot of notes on what worked,and what didn't,and shoot alot. Ron
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Joined: January 25th, 2007, 10:07 am

February 18th, 2010, 5:52 pm #3

After doing much research I am still at a loss as to how well I "Should" be able to shoot my Marauder? Someone even has a post about showing your groups etc. Inevitably people are going to show their "Best" groups. I'm looking for real world consistant data. I do realize all the variables. i.e. Every gun is different etc. But, I see so many things! "Marauders are Great". "Marauders a terrible." I can shoot 200 shots all in the same hole from 400 yards, with a 40 mph crosswind". So I guess I'm looking for realistic examples. I can say I can shoot dime sized groups at 20 yards. Using mutliple holds, and even using a high end shooting rest. I have only shot 30 shots from 50 yards and I would guess 3-4 inch groups. I have shot high level competative archery for years, so I do understand how the small things make a diference. i.e. a very sloooow pull, Breating control, cant etc. If I shot five, ten shot groups I would probably have one or two "Flyers", that would be outside a dime. I have shot every pellet imaginable. I have purchased two diferent "Sample Packs", and I would guess 15-20 diferent models/brands as well. The best I have found are The Brown Box Crosman Premiers, and Beeman FTS. There are a few that shoot O.K. and the rest are like Buckshot. Again, I'm just looking for realistic comparisions so I can have an idea of where I can or should be. Maybe also add if your gun has been "Tuned" and to what extent? Thus, helping me decide if that is required to shoot "Great" groups. Thanks in advance!

Brett

P.S. I am not intending on this being some sort of compatition. Kind of like in the Movie "Caddie Shack", when Judge Elihu Smails ask Ty Webb, how do you compare yourself to other Golfers if you don't keep score? His answer...... "By Height".
then that says something about the rifle's capabilities. As the distance grows, so do group sizes, depending of course on the efficiency of the valving of the gun, consistency of pellet dimensions, wind and shooter...among other, smaller factors.....the most important IMO, the shooter....all other variables can be diminished significantly by tuning the gun, weighing/sorting pellets, and shooting on a calm day or under controlled conditions.

All this being said, I posted groups with Benji HP's, out of my Marauder (.22), after Greg massaged the factory barrel, and prior to his internal tune, of 30-shots, under a dime, at 50yds....

Greg's tune made the gun far more efficient, allowing me over 40 shots at 35yds with no POI shift. My gun Hates JSB exacts or jumbo's...but loves CP's, Benji HP's, JSB Preds and Stratons, Logun Penetrators, Kodiaks, H&N Match....pretty much everything but JSB's and gamo....and will reliably shoot all of these pellets into dime-sized groups at 50yds....

The gun will however, shoot dime-sized groups at 75yds with weigh/sorted kodiaks, loguns and H&N Match....and quarter-sized groups at 100yds with these same pellets. I believe the gun is capable of sub-MOA at 100+ under the right conditions...but they haven't existed yet this year so that I can verify.....

After this ramble, I would say that if you are shooting dimes at 20yds, then quarters at 50 would be the minimum I would accept from myself.

s/f

Jamie
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Joined: February 8th, 2010, 2:41 pm

February 18th, 2010, 6:10 pm #4

Quarter size groups at 50 yards! That gives me a reasonable goal! Also, that would make me very happy with the gun. Alright, I know once I'd do that then I won't be happy until I can get quarter size groups at 100 yards.....and so on....! It is a never ending battle for perfection for me unfortunatly. Anyway, thanks for the advise / help. It is much appreciated. Also, I should have mentioned I have a Leapers 6-24x50 Scope. So I can't use that as an excuse. Also, I can shoot just under 100 yards in my shop anytime. No wind, and warm. I just have to wait for my pump to come back from crosman. I refuse to lug my T1 tank of Nitrogen back here when it will be so much easier to just have the pump.

Brett
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Joined: March 8th, 2007, 2:43 am

February 18th, 2010, 8:46 pm #5

then that says something about the rifle's capabilities. As the distance grows, so do group sizes, depending of course on the efficiency of the valving of the gun, consistency of pellet dimensions, wind and shooter...among other, smaller factors.....the most important IMO, the shooter....all other variables can be diminished significantly by tuning the gun, weighing/sorting pellets, and shooting on a calm day or under controlled conditions.

All this being said, I posted groups with Benji HP's, out of my Marauder (.22), after Greg massaged the factory barrel, and prior to his internal tune, of 30-shots, under a dime, at 50yds....

Greg's tune made the gun far more efficient, allowing me over 40 shots at 35yds with no POI shift. My gun Hates JSB exacts or jumbo's...but loves CP's, Benji HP's, JSB Preds and Stratons, Logun Penetrators, Kodiaks, H&N Match....pretty much everything but JSB's and gamo....and will reliably shoot all of these pellets into dime-sized groups at 50yds....

The gun will however, shoot dime-sized groups at 75yds with weigh/sorted kodiaks, loguns and H&N Match....and quarter-sized groups at 100yds with these same pellets. I believe the gun is capable of sub-MOA at 100+ under the right conditions...but they haven't existed yet this year so that I can verify.....

After this ramble, I would say that if you are shooting dimes at 20yds, then quarters at 50 would be the minimum I would accept from myself.

s/f

Jamie
that H&N match and other wadcutters aren't accurate/don't group well past ~30 yards. Is that a misprint about the 50 and 75 yard groups?
Last edited by bubbanutha on February 18th, 2010, 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 25th, 2007, 10:07 am

February 18th, 2010, 9:55 pm #6

are not wadcutters, they're domed. And it's definitely not a misprint, it's my Mrod's overall favorite pellet. Those pellets are also what Greg Davis uses for his post-tune accuracy testing.

s/f

Jamie
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Joined: March 8th, 2007, 2:43 am

February 18th, 2010, 10:09 pm #7

Got a link to the ones you are talking about? Or are you talking about H&N Baracuda Match pellets which are (with maybe a different head/skirt diameter) Kodiak Match pellets.
Last edited by bubbanutha on February 18th, 2010, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 1st, 2008, 3:28 am

February 19th, 2010, 1:15 am #8

After doing much research I am still at a loss as to how well I "Should" be able to shoot my Marauder? Someone even has a post about showing your groups etc. Inevitably people are going to show their "Best" groups. I'm looking for real world consistant data. I do realize all the variables. i.e. Every gun is different etc. But, I see so many things! "Marauders are Great". "Marauders a terrible." I can shoot 200 shots all in the same hole from 400 yards, with a 40 mph crosswind". So I guess I'm looking for realistic examples. I can say I can shoot dime sized groups at 20 yards. Using mutliple holds, and even using a high end shooting rest. I have only shot 30 shots from 50 yards and I would guess 3-4 inch groups. I have shot high level competative archery for years, so I do understand how the small things make a diference. i.e. a very sloooow pull, Breating control, cant etc. If I shot five, ten shot groups I would probably have one or two "Flyers", that would be outside a dime. I have shot every pellet imaginable. I have purchased two diferent "Sample Packs", and I would guess 15-20 diferent models/brands as well. The best I have found are The Brown Box Crosman Premiers, and Beeman FTS. There are a few that shoot O.K. and the rest are like Buckshot. Again, I'm just looking for realistic comparisions so I can have an idea of where I can or should be. Maybe also add if your gun has been "Tuned" and to what extent? Thus, helping me decide if that is required to shoot "Great" groups. Thanks in advance!

Brett

P.S. I am not intending on this being some sort of compatition. Kind of like in the Movie "Caddie Shack", when Judge Elihu Smails ask Ty Webb, how do you compare yourself to other Golfers if you don't keep score? His answer...... "By Height".
was that the best groups occurred in a narrow pressure range. I considered this strange, since the chronograph data shows a fairly wide pressure range to keep the velocity +/- 10 fps. Also, this still happens after swapping barrels. Or, in other words, two separate barrels showed a similar increase in accuracy in the same pressure range.

So, with the A-Teams information in hand, I have begun modifying the factory settings of two hammer turns and zero striker to get a flatter velocity curve. It's time consuming, but that's expected. Also, I am tuning for 12 ft-lb so the transfer port setting gets involved.

I have primarily been shooting JSB 15.9's because they group about as well as the CPH with Krytech. The CPH pellets tend to lead foul the barrel, even at 12 ft-lb. Beeman FTS and Kodiaks shoot about as well.

The best 20 yard (~22 yd) groups are slightly under a dime. The worst are under a quarter.

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Joined: November 24th, 2007, 5:22 pm

February 19th, 2010, 3:53 am #9

After doing much research I am still at a loss as to how well I "Should" be able to shoot my Marauder? Someone even has a post about showing your groups etc. Inevitably people are going to show their "Best" groups. I'm looking for real world consistant data. I do realize all the variables. i.e. Every gun is different etc. But, I see so many things! "Marauders are Great". "Marauders a terrible." I can shoot 200 shots all in the same hole from 400 yards, with a 40 mph crosswind". So I guess I'm looking for realistic examples. I can say I can shoot dime sized groups at 20 yards. Using mutliple holds, and even using a high end shooting rest. I have only shot 30 shots from 50 yards and I would guess 3-4 inch groups. I have shot high level competative archery for years, so I do understand how the small things make a diference. i.e. a very sloooow pull, Breating control, cant etc. If I shot five, ten shot groups I would probably have one or two "Flyers", that would be outside a dime. I have shot every pellet imaginable. I have purchased two diferent "Sample Packs", and I would guess 15-20 diferent models/brands as well. The best I have found are The Brown Box Crosman Premiers, and Beeman FTS. There are a few that shoot O.K. and the rest are like Buckshot. Again, I'm just looking for realistic comparisions so I can have an idea of where I can or should be. Maybe also add if your gun has been "Tuned" and to what extent? Thus, helping me decide if that is required to shoot "Great" groups. Thanks in advance!

Brett

P.S. I am not intending on this being some sort of compatition. Kind of like in the Movie "Caddie Shack", when Judge Elihu Smails ask Ty Webb, how do you compare yourself to other Golfers if you don't keep score? His answer...... "By Height".
and the cheap CPH in the tins, I routinely shoot 1" groups at 40 yards just leaning over the backyard fence. No doubt it would do better with a proper rest.

Of course, when that Steve Corcoran stock arrives next week, I'm pretty sure it'll do 1-holers.....lol
Craig
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Joined: October 12th, 2004, 6:35 pm

February 19th, 2010, 3:58 am #10

Or CPH (Crosman Premier Heavy) pellets? It's allways great to find a cheap pellet that performs well! If it's the hollow points they weigh 7.9-7.8grs. and should be really moving out of your gun. Any velocity numbers? Ron
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