To the PFT committee (quick thought)...

To the PFT committee (quick thought)...

Joined: July 6th, 2002, 8:59 pm

September 23rd, 2011, 3:47 pm #1

Hector brought this up here on the forum, and it is an excellent idea: Before drafting rules, draft a "mission statement", outlining the spirit and intent for each class... That would serve you to:
- draft rules that comply & enforce the mission statement
- minimize the number of rules and loopholes (i.e., when in doubt, go back to the "spirit & intent")

Good luck & thank you for your efforts.
HookEm

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Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

September 23rd, 2011, 3:54 pm #2

/response.

I do believe that Less is More, initially, to establish Core Rules vs. outlining details to the nth degree.

Regards,

Tony
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Joined: February 11th, 2002, 6:01 pm

September 23rd, 2011, 4:39 pm #3

Hector brought this up here on the forum, and it is an excellent idea: Before drafting rules, draft a "mission statement", outlining the spirit and intent for each class... That would serve you to:
- draft rules that comply & enforce the mission statement
- minimize the number of rules and loopholes (i.e., when in doubt, go back to the "spirit & intent")

Good luck & thank you for your efforts.
HookEm
<p>please.</p><p> </p>

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the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
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Joined: September 28th, 2000, 12:50 am

September 23rd, 2011, 5:25 pm #4

By defining what is the OBJECTIVE of creating a class, you also need to define the intent. A few HYPOTHETICAL examples I've stated before:

"UNLIMITED CLASS is the class the we (AAFTA) hope will push the limits of technology looking for the benefit of the sport. As such NO LIMITS are placed on positions, equipment, or techniques, the ONLY restriction being that the equipment and shooting arrangements needs to be transported from one lane to the next without any mechanical aids or means, the intent of the Unlimited Class is to provide expansion and growing room for all the marvelous ingenuity of shooters and tinkerers".

"SPORTER CLASS is the class the has been created to host all those that look at FT as a HUNTING SIMULATION game. Therefore, the highest restrictions are put on the rifle (has to have a factory issued stock or a stock with a forearm not extending past ½" UNDER the trigger blade. NO adjustability is allowable on these stocks. Scopes will be restricted to 16X being that that level of magnification is common and inexpensive to obtain in the current market. Sporter class has two divisions: OEM class where the rifle, scope and pellets have to be "as issued" from the manufacturer, and CUSTOM, where usual for hunting modifications are allowed. It is the intent that Sporter-OEM will be the entry level for most shooters into FT, therefore no mechanical supports, or special items of clothing of any kind are allowed, the sling can be used in any of the positions as long as it is a carrying sling"

"WFTF CLASS is a heavily restricted class that abides by the World's Field Target Federation Core Rules. As such, the Intent of this class is to define who is the better shooter and therefore precise and severe limits will be enforced at all shoots. WFTF class is needed as a benchmark of how we, as a country, are performing in relation to other countries. WFTF class shooters are ESPECIALLY expected to be sportsmen in good physical condition and with a good sportsmanslike attitude, as ambassadors to World type shoots they will represent the best of American Air Riflemanship"

"Veterans and Shooters with Different Abilities (VADA) Class is the class created for anyone that needs AND WANTS TO MAKE special considerations for mobility, age, or any other well-sustained reason. It is created in order to give the room and the space for everyone with special needs to shoot, enjoy the outdoors, the friendship and the respect every dedicated shooter deserves. MD's will review any special needs and or conditions. Anyone over 60 years of age can opt to enter into the VADA class. VADA scores will only compete against VADA scores."
.
.
.
.


And so on and on and on.

It is not up to US to define spirit or intent, what is needed is that it IS defined.

JMHO





Un Abrazo!




Héctor
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Joined: February 11th, 2002, 6:01 pm

September 23rd, 2011, 5:35 pm #5

<p>And that definition is the 'common point of reference' for everyone to work against?</p><p>So the "spirit and intent" are what the rules were written for?</p><p> </p>

dr_subsonic's pneumatic research lab

the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
Proud Sponsor of team_subsonic
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Joined: November 15th, 2007, 4:52 am

September 23rd, 2011, 5:39 pm #6

Hector brought this up here on the forum, and it is an excellent idea: Before drafting rules, draft a "mission statement", outlining the spirit and intent for each class... That would serve you to:
- draft rules that comply & enforce the mission statement
- minimize the number of rules and loopholes (i.e., when in doubt, go back to the "spirit & intent")

Good luck & thank you for your efforts.
HookEm
Kudos to Hector and yourself for bringing it to our attention.

I'm admittedly a little pescimistic though. So far they haven't been able to agree on nearly anything and as a result there has been little accomplished for all the months the committee has been established.

But I'll try to positive. You may be onto something. A starting point and a central focus might be what they need.

Lonnie Smith
Associate Match Director DFTC
http://www.diablofieldtarget.org/home.html

"It doesn't get done til someone does it"
Last edited by AirSmithCA on September 23rd, 2011, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 4th, 2004, 2:28 am

September 23rd, 2011, 5:52 pm #7

From when we were just starting out...

IF Hunter PFT takes off we'll look to add a class or change the rules a bit but we just shoot and try and not worry about all the other stuff.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/451309/m ... eady+to+go

kevin

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr></table>
http://www.diablofieldtarget.org
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lhd
Joined: January 9th, 2002, 2:30 am

September 23rd, 2011, 6:32 pm #8

Hector brought this up here on the forum, and it is an excellent idea: Before drafting rules, draft a "mission statement", outlining the spirit and intent for each class... That would serve you to:
- draft rules that comply & enforce the mission statement
- minimize the number of rules and loopholes (i.e., when in doubt, go back to the "spirit & intent")

Good luck & thank you for your efforts.
HookEm
Was Rodney Boyce. Rodney essentially drafted the basic rules that defined AAFTA and the game it was to officiate over.

Since the main objective was to foster and unite an association of widely scattered clubs across the country for yearly tournaments, he realized there was little NEED to closely control every detail of the game, but rather, it would be better to draft a set of rules and recommendations that allowed clubs to retain individuality at their matches whenever possible, yet the shooters themselves could experience the variety of various locales as the matches were moved from state to state.

So, in the same way there are huge differences in the cuizine encountered in different regions, yet its eaten and enjoyed by all, the rules were wisely drafted a bit "vaguely", so as to allow large latitude to the local clubs and match directors, who play the game the way their clubbies like.

Actually, until the advent of Airgun Forums, there was little need for clubs to have written rules, and I suspect many still do not, since those that played quickly learned by example at their local matches. The need for involved rules and interpretations has mostly been a result of the "net shooters".
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-bp
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 4:21 pm

September 23rd, 2011, 7:19 pm #9

By defining what is the OBJECTIVE of creating a class, you also need to define the intent. A few HYPOTHETICAL examples I've stated before:

"UNLIMITED CLASS is the class the we (AAFTA) hope will push the limits of technology looking for the benefit of the sport. As such NO LIMITS are placed on positions, equipment, or techniques, the ONLY restriction being that the equipment and shooting arrangements needs to be transported from one lane to the next without any mechanical aids or means, the intent of the Unlimited Class is to provide expansion and growing room for all the marvelous ingenuity of shooters and tinkerers".

"SPORTER CLASS is the class the has been created to host all those that look at FT as a HUNTING SIMULATION game. Therefore, the highest restrictions are put on the rifle (has to have a factory issued stock or a stock with a forearm not extending past ½" UNDER the trigger blade. NO adjustability is allowable on these stocks. Scopes will be restricted to 16X being that that level of magnification is common and inexpensive to obtain in the current market. Sporter class has two divisions: OEM class where the rifle, scope and pellets have to be "as issued" from the manufacturer, and CUSTOM, where usual for hunting modifications are allowed. It is the intent that Sporter-OEM will be the entry level for most shooters into FT, therefore no mechanical supports, or special items of clothing of any kind are allowed, the sling can be used in any of the positions as long as it is a carrying sling"

"WFTF CLASS is a heavily restricted class that abides by the World's Field Target Federation Core Rules. As such, the Intent of this class is to define who is the better shooter and therefore precise and severe limits will be enforced at all shoots. WFTF class is needed as a benchmark of how we, as a country, are performing in relation to other countries. WFTF class shooters are ESPECIALLY expected to be sportsmen in good physical condition and with a good sportsmanslike attitude, as ambassadors to World type shoots they will represent the best of American Air Riflemanship"

"Veterans and Shooters with Different Abilities (VADA) Class is the class created for anyone that needs AND WANTS TO MAKE special considerations for mobility, age, or any other well-sustained reason. It is created in order to give the room and the space for everyone with special needs to shoot, enjoy the outdoors, the friendship and the respect every dedicated shooter deserves. MD's will review any special needs and or conditions. Anyone over 60 years of age can opt to enter into the VADA class. VADA scores will only compete against VADA scores."
.
.
.
.


And so on and on and on.

It is not up to US to define spirit or intent, what is needed is that it IS defined.

JMHO





Un Abrazo!




Héctor
defining the spirit and intent will help the bog come up with better rules, and will help them and match directors handle small variations.

i'm not in love with the vada class, but you were citing examples, not writing rules. quiet nicely done

-bp
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Joined: March 29th, 2010, 6:51 am

September 23rd, 2011, 7:30 pm #10

Was Rodney Boyce. Rodney essentially drafted the basic rules that defined AAFTA and the game it was to officiate over.

Since the main objective was to foster and unite an association of widely scattered clubs across the country for yearly tournaments, he realized there was little NEED to closely control every detail of the game, but rather, it would be better to draft a set of rules and recommendations that allowed clubs to retain individuality at their matches whenever possible, yet the shooters themselves could experience the variety of various locales as the matches were moved from state to state.

So, in the same way there are huge differences in the cuizine encountered in different regions, yet its eaten and enjoyed by all, the rules were wisely drafted a bit "vaguely", so as to allow large latitude to the local clubs and match directors, who play the game the way their clubbies like.

Actually, until the advent of Airgun Forums, there was little need for clubs to have written rules, and I suspect many still do not, since those that played quickly learned by example at their local matches. The need for involved rules and interpretations has mostly been a result of the "net shooters".
That caveat being that at national and regional matches the MD has the final say in all rules for the match, and the rules are published when the match is announced. This is to avoid the 'Well that's not how we do it in Saginaw' issues. Just as you follow the rules of the local clubs when you shoot local matches, you follow the national rules when shooting a national match.

Then if you don't like the national rules because they are different than your local rules maybe you can get on the internet and petition to get the national rules changed to match your local rules. Oh, now that sounds familiar!!!!

The other option is we just don't keep score at the national matches and then no one would care how or what you shot. Of course no one would shoot the match either.

You just participated in the World BR championship, what do you think it would have been like if the rules were vague and ill defined and the policing was left to the spirit and integrity of the shooters? You need clear, concise and fair rules if you are going to keep score.

Local clubs should and will always do what they think is in their best interest. The problem arises when they think their best interest is also everyone else's best interest. Every shooting discipline I have been involved with has struggled with this issue, and I suspect we will be no different. The internet just makes it much easier to air our opinions. What ultimately is needed is strong leadership and the ability to make decisions and live with them. You can't make all the people happy all the time, and trying to do so leads to chaos.

Jim in Sacramento
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