The 800 lb Gorilla

The 800 lb Gorilla

Joined: March 10th, 2001, 5:13 pm

June 19th, 2008, 5:29 pm #1

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>

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Joined: May 16th, 2007, 11:05 pm

June 19th, 2008, 5:55 pm #2

Now after being in the AG,s for a little over a year, it is taking the same coarse the bench rest shooting and Bulls Eye competetion shooting went in the powder burning sports, pretty soon the average man could not justify the Hobby,s cost, which is the reason I started playing with these toys, I can see if you our a serious competetion shooter you could get over three grand in it quick, that is in the same neigborhood as the bench rest shooter, which forces out a newbee or fixed income person like myself and others I know. Your right, if we don,t make some reasonable choices you will be very limited on the ones you have to make. IMHO
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q1q
Joined: May 24th, 2001, 2:45 am

June 19th, 2008, 6:03 pm #3

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>
I do and they need my support and yours to stay in business and take care of our needs.

Steve
Yellow Forums Administrator
http://www.yellowforum.com


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Joined: May 19th, 2007, 1:37 am

June 19th, 2008, 6:04 pm #4

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>
I won't go into a great dissertation on this, but I differ on a couple points. First, competition is indeed good - we agree. But competition has the nasty habit of leading to consolidation, by pressuring noncompetitive, non-servicing or inefficient retailers to either the point of change or extinction - it's nearly inevitable. So it's hard to say "I'm for competition -it's all good." and then suggest the effects of competition can be avoided. They go hand in hand.

And while I won't fault anyone who looks with concern on the possible ramifications of that phenomenon on his/her own business, I will say from a consumer's point of view, the sky is seldom falling. Prices on products in this industry were plenty high enough before the onset of the "800 lb Gorilla". It's the age old "yes- Walmart" - "no- Walmart" argument that stirs passion on both sides.

In the end, when the 800 lb Gorilla is all alone atop the pile (should it ever happen), and if he raises the prices thinking he's safe and secure ... voila - magically new competition emerges once again and the consumer wins. If the 800 lb Gorilla becomes inefficient, then the consumer wins. Either way, the consumer wins in the long run in a free market economy.

I deal with this phenomenon daily in the music industry where our family-owned music store goes toe-to-toe with behemoths like Guitar Center, Nick Rail Music, Walmart and even Costco. We excel by offering what they cannot - service AND reasonable pricing. Plus some things they don't - like music lessons. Note, I did not say we offer the lowest pricing. So we keep our nose in the wind, stay alert for changes and react quickly and efficiently (something the big boys can no longer do). That way we stay one step ahead of them and not only survive ... but win - and win big.

Will Rogers once said: "If you want to get rich, find out where everyone is going, get there first and then buy land." I believe that principle is true in all business and small businesses have the advantage of being able to change market strategy OVERNIGHT and temporarily sit alone in a niche. That is the achilles heel of the 800 lb Gorilla. We don't take on the big boys in price, but in strategy.

Tim
Last edited by VPilot on June 19th, 2008, 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 4th, 2007, 2:34 pm

June 19th, 2008, 6:12 pm #5

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>
determine where I will go to make purchases. If, for instance, a retailer does not or will not carry an item I need,they will most likely drop a notch on my short list of suppliers.And again, if I have to wait 3 weeks for an item I order to show up at my door,that dealer drops on the list.Service,service,service....

"See how they bait their trap?"
Determination that is incorruptible.
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Joined: June 6th, 2008, 11:55 pm

June 19th, 2008, 6:18 pm #6

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>
wondering why airgunners have not established some buying power consortium. It would appear that we (and I am so very new to all this)are happy and content to buy and sell at the junior league level when the numbers continue to grow. Several weeks ago, some poster invaded Brad's Classifieds with some sales of firearms wherein an airgunner posted a response to those ads by stating, "What happened to our happy little forum?"
I found that to be a terribly interesting statement/question and now it would appear, characteristic of the junior league thought processes. I think the 800 lber ought to become "all he can be."

ds
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Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

June 19th, 2008, 6:34 pm #7

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>
out of my way to not spend a dollar on products from their company if I can get them from other sources that are good business people if not avid airgunners themselves. I don't look for just price alone. There seems to be several 800lb. gorillas that try to flex their muscle in this industry at the expense of the airgunning community...

Regards,

Tony
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 8:31 pm

June 19th, 2008, 6:41 pm #8

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>
any Sumatra's in or is that one Gorilla we all know still hogging them?
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Joined: September 22nd, 2000, 7:58 pm

June 19th, 2008, 6:42 pm #9

In any industry you name there will always be an 800 lber. They will dominate because of their purchasing power and they will use that power to intimidate, bypass, pressure, control and eliminate the other distributors, suppliers, importers and dealers.
The AG industry is no different other than to say it is easier to dominate because of its small size. Certain businesses have somewhat insulated themselves with unique offerrings and service but the pressure is always on because the 800 lber affects everyones bottom line.
Your choices now are always going to affect your options later. You can rationalize buying behavior in dollar terms (in the short run) but in the long run you will have nobody to blame but yourself when your choices, down the road are limited.
Specialist companies are always on the leading edge of demand (or lack of it)and if the demand lately is any indication of what is to come you are going to lose more of your current choices in the downturn we are facing.
Individually you can do your part and collectively you can make a difference that will determine what direction the industry goes. Do you want the current trend of consolidation to continue, increase or decrease? It is a question you need to ask yourself on every transaction you make.
Once your choices are limited the 800 lber is going to raise their prices to a very profitable level and you won't have many if any choices to exercise. Competition is a very good thing. Without it we have no choice but to pay the going rate and that rate will go up the less competion there is.
I'm not whining but I'm stating the obvious so that those that purchase via a google price search will realize they have nobody to blame but themselves when the number of hits diminish.



"NO GUNS WOULD BE A RIOT"

Later

Tim
<font face="Comic Sans MS, Arial, Times New Roman">
Mac1 Airgun
</font>
<P>Tim, are you talking about the big manufacturers like Crosman and Gamo,&nbsp; Big box retailers like Walmart, the general sporting goods retailers such as Bass Pro Shop, or the largest airgun seller in the US which I guess is Compassico?</P>
<P>I have never bought a new airgun or new scope except on clearance from Walmart and Sams (Daisy 953 and Marksman 2004) but I try to buy my pellets from Airgun dealers such as Mac1, Pyramid, etc.&nbsp; It's often a matter of who has what I want to shoot in stock.&nbsp; So, I really don't support the dealers that much.&nbsp; I do recommend them to people that want to buy new guns.</P>
<P>David Enoch</P>
Last edited by DavidEnoch on June 19th, 2008, 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lhd
Joined: January 9th, 2002, 2:30 am

June 19th, 2008, 7:23 pm #10

I won't go into a great dissertation on this, but I differ on a couple points. First, competition is indeed good - we agree. But competition has the nasty habit of leading to consolidation, by pressuring noncompetitive, non-servicing or inefficient retailers to either the point of change or extinction - it's nearly inevitable. So it's hard to say "I'm for competition -it's all good." and then suggest the effects of competition can be avoided. They go hand in hand.

And while I won't fault anyone who looks with concern on the possible ramifications of that phenomenon on his/her own business, I will say from a consumer's point of view, the sky is seldom falling. Prices on products in this industry were plenty high enough before the onset of the "800 lb Gorilla". It's the age old "yes- Walmart" - "no- Walmart" argument that stirs passion on both sides.

In the end, when the 800 lb Gorilla is all alone atop the pile (should it ever happen), and if he raises the prices thinking he's safe and secure ... voila - magically new competition emerges once again and the consumer wins. If the 800 lb Gorilla becomes inefficient, then the consumer wins. Either way, the consumer wins in the long run in a free market economy.

I deal with this phenomenon daily in the music industry where our family-owned music store goes toe-to-toe with behemoths like Guitar Center, Nick Rail Music, Walmart and even Costco. We excel by offering what they cannot - service AND reasonable pricing. Plus some things they don't - like music lessons. Note, I did not say we offer the lowest pricing. So we keep our nose in the wind, stay alert for changes and react quickly and efficiently (something the big boys can no longer do). That way we stay one step ahead of them and not only survive ... but win - and win big.

Will Rogers once said: "If you want to get rich, find out where everyone is going, get there first and then buy land." I believe that principle is true in all business and small businesses have the advantage of being able to change market strategy OVERNIGHT and temporarily sit alone in a niche. That is the achilles heel of the 800 lb Gorilla. We don't take on the big boys in price, but in strategy.

Tim
Called "Service Stations". I recall .... they routinely checked oil, water, battery, fan belts, tire pressure, even washed yer windshield while your tank was being filled with sub-$.29/gallon gasoline. Sure, IF your oil was low or you needed a fanbelt, they fixed you up right then and made a profit, but for many this was a pretty darned good deal compared to making an appointment with a new car dealer or repair only shop.


Now to airguns .... You can buy from a big box store, often for less, esp on closeouts, and you can buy from a mail-order house that doesnt even OWN a storefront (may not even have a merchandise warehouse, relying on "drop-shipping"), and perhaps get a good price. and sometimes, you will find your new airgub is defective in some way, but big-box and mailorder places will normally make it right somehow (eventually).

But ....


What if you want something SPECIAL? How about some new exciting airgun that fills some need that is only shared by a limited number of airgunners? Whats THAT? Well, how about a gun with a beautiful high grade figured walnut stock? Or, how about a gun designed soley for 10M competition, or Silhouette, or Field Target? Maybe you want a powerful takedown rifle, or a pumpup type that is as powerful as all getout and yet decently accurate?


Well, the bigbox guys and large mailorder houses arent really "into" trying out new stuff ... oh sure, IF they see a new gun becoming popular, they may try to take it over, but they rarely go out on a limb with special new stuff, because they arent equipped to support that niche. So, if you are into making your OWN special stuff starting from bigbox stuff, fine, but if you aren't .... well, it may pay to support the little guys that cater to making or stocking and servicing special stuff more than ever.
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