scope height

Joined: December 25th, 2009, 11:21 pm

May 30th, 2017, 5:08 pm #1

I have wondered for years why most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible. I really love a stock that requires a high scope like talons or most bullpups. Except for very close shots (15 yards and under), my high mounted scopes are so much easier to hit with at farther distances. My guns are all zeroed at 40 yards and all are about 900 fps. My high scopes are only a fraction high at 30 yards ,while my low scopes are an inch or more high at 30 yards. I hate to aim under a squirrels chin for a head shot. It is just not natural for me to aim under at any range,but dont mind aiming over. Seem like only half as much to remember as far as trajectory is concerned. I know the trajectory is the same for all my guns but the high scope seems to really flatten it out. Just saying.....
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Joined: October 18th, 2016, 3:54 am

May 30th, 2017, 5:14 pm #2

For a lot of people, a high-mounted scope interferes with their cheek weld and view of the scope. They need a higher comb to go with the high mounts.
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Joined: December 25th, 2009, 11:21 pm

May 30th, 2017, 6:39 pm #3

I agree Mark,my RAW needs a low mount to get a good weld. It just makes it a little harder to hit with for me. But, I have always been a little odd !
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Joined: December 4th, 2010, 11:16 pm

May 30th, 2017, 7:42 pm #4

I have wondered for years why most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible. I really love a stock that requires a high scope like talons or most bullpups. Except for very close shots (15 yards and under), my high mounted scopes are so much easier to hit with at farther distances. My guns are all zeroed at 40 yards and all are about 900 fps. My high scopes are only a fraction high at 30 yards ,while my low scopes are an inch or more high at 30 yards. I hate to aim under a squirrels chin for a head shot. It is just not natural for me to aim under at any range,but dont mind aiming over. Seem like only half as much to remember as far as trajectory is concerned. I know the trajectory is the same for all my guns but the high scope seems to really flatten it out. Just saying.....
For the most part it's in the design of the rifle to achieve best accuracy, at least in the powder burner industry which I think transverses over to air rifles as well. Thus giving purpose for mounting scope closest to the barrel is to keep scope mounted over axis of the barrel for less possibility of cant. Canting also becomes more of a factor in long distance shooting. For us airgunners who like to shoot longer distances I recommend a scope level as this will help prevent cant, provided it’s installed properly, regardless of scope height.

For many people mounting a scope closer to barrel amounts to a more comfortable cheek weld but this is not always the case as we speak of different rifle manufactures and applications. For some mounting a scope closest to the barrel may result in a crammed head position as we are not all built the same and or have different shooting habits.

Personally I think one should shoot what is the most comfort and natural feeling position for oneself to achieve consistency be it low mount or high or anything in between remembering this can also be dependent on the physical circumstances of said rifle/ scope. This is an often discussion as to which is more important cant or comfort.

All being said, I prefer lowest scope mount due primarily to my shooting habits as I love to lean in, sort of speaking, as I snuggle in when I take aim, just my learned style of shooting.

Cheers
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Joined: May 12th, 2001, 1:29 pm

May 30th, 2017, 8:31 pm #5

I have wondered for years why most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible. I really love a stock that requires a high scope like talons or most bullpups. Except for very close shots (15 yards and under), my high mounted scopes are so much easier to hit with at farther distances. My guns are all zeroed at 40 yards and all are about 900 fps. My high scopes are only a fraction high at 30 yards ,while my low scopes are an inch or more high at 30 yards. I hate to aim under a squirrels chin for a head shot. It is just not natural for me to aim under at any range,but dont mind aiming over. Seem like only half as much to remember as far as trajectory is concerned. I know the trajectory is the same for all my guns but the high scope seems to really flatten it out. Just saying.....
...at short ranges while tall mounts favor longer ranges, especially for direct ("point blank") shooting.

This application by Perry Babin illustrates how mount height affects trajectory.



Click: http://www.arld1.com/trajectorypbr2.html
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Joined: July 9th, 2015, 1:00 pm

May 30th, 2017, 9:08 pm #6

I have wondered for years why most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible. I really love a stock that requires a high scope like talons or most bullpups. Except for very close shots (15 yards and under), my high mounted scopes are so much easier to hit with at farther distances. My guns are all zeroed at 40 yards and all are about 900 fps. My high scopes are only a fraction high at 30 yards ,while my low scopes are an inch or more high at 30 yards. I hate to aim under a squirrels chin for a head shot. It is just not natural for me to aim under at any range,but dont mind aiming over. Seem like only half as much to remember as far as trajectory is concerned. I know the trajectory is the same for all my guns but the high scope seems to really flatten it out. Just saying.....
"wondered for years why most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible"
Due to the loopy trajectory of pellets (especially from my R9 & HW95 springers) the preferred shooting distance needs to be considered because a low scope height does favor the closer ranges and the higher scope height favors the longer distances. When shooting at living critters I strive to make all shots within 30 yards which does work well with a lower scope height.

"My guns are all zeroed at 40 yards"
and
"I hate to aim under a squirrels chin for a head shot"
and
"dont mind aiming over"
The issue with a 40 yard zero (for me) is exactly what you're describing, i.e. needing to aim both high and low depending on the range. I zero my .177 springers at 30 yards which gives me a "crosshair on" aim from about 15 yards to 35 yards with a slight midrange rise of about 1/4" above the line of sight at about 25 yards (depends on the tune level). With my setup I only need to be concerned with aiming on or high, never have to consider aiming low. Here is a target I shot checking out the trajectory of a certain R9 tune. The target consists of 165 consecutive shots from "bucket and sticks".........

As you can see, aiming at the center of the bulls for all ranges the poi at 20 & 25 yards was about 3/16" or 1/4" above the aim point with a 30 yard zero. Even at 50 yards the pellet drop with a 30 yard zero was only 1 1/2" low.

Anywhoo....I personally prefer having the trajectory "flattened out" at the closer ranges where wind has less influence on the pellet rather than setting up my springer to favor "lottery shot distances".
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Joined: November 17th, 2006, 3:51 am

May 30th, 2017, 9:44 pm #7

I have wondered for years why most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible. I really love a stock that requires a high scope like talons or most bullpups. Except for very close shots (15 yards and under), my high mounted scopes are so much easier to hit with at farther distances. My guns are all zeroed at 40 yards and all are about 900 fps. My high scopes are only a fraction high at 30 yards ,while my low scopes are an inch or more high at 30 yards. I hate to aim under a squirrels chin for a head shot. It is just not natural for me to aim under at any range,but dont mind aiming over. Seem like only half as much to remember as far as trajectory is concerned. I know the trajectory is the same for all my guns but the high scope seems to really flatten it out. Just saying.....
Most of my airgunshooting is between 10 and 50 yards.


With the good ballistic calculatores out there, can down load one or the calculatoes and play with scope height.


NOrmally what I find is that between 10-50 yards, a low mounted scope keeps the RISE in trajectory at mid point (about 25 yards) much more reasonably that a scope mounted 2" or more above the bore line.

(I likely missed more 10-15 yard shots with an AirForce and it's +3" scope height than any other airgun. It's such an ungodly amount of hold-under...and it embarrasses the devil out of you when you miss a 20 foot tweety bird...and then the guy nexts to you just zapps it with his Daisy 880's iron sights.)


Now if you do most of your shooting between 40-80 yards, then the increased scope moutning height can be a help.


So normally, I snuggle them down to under 1.5"....uness I have the need/urge for one of the big obejctive (50-56mm) scopes. THen, just to cear the barrel, pretty much have to jack it up in the air (but at least then, I don't feel like it's hanging up in the air for no good reason).
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Joined: December 25th, 2009, 11:21 pm

May 31st, 2017, 2:17 am #8

"wondered for years why most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible"
Due to the loopy trajectory of pellets (especially from my R9 & HW95 springers) the preferred shooting distance needs to be considered because a low scope height does favor the closer ranges and the higher scope height favors the longer distances. When shooting at living critters I strive to make all shots within 30 yards which does work well with a lower scope height.

"My guns are all zeroed at 40 yards"
and
"I hate to aim under a squirrels chin for a head shot"
and
"dont mind aiming over"
The issue with a 40 yard zero (for me) is exactly what you're describing, i.e. needing to aim both high and low depending on the range. I zero my .177 springers at 30 yards which gives me a "crosshair on" aim from about 15 yards to 35 yards with a slight midrange rise of about 1/4" above the line of sight at about 25 yards (depends on the tune level). With my setup I only need to be concerned with aiming on or high, never have to consider aiming low. Here is a target I shot checking out the trajectory of a certain R9 tune. The target consists of 165 consecutive shots from "bucket and sticks".........

As you can see, aiming at the center of the bulls for all ranges the poi at 20 & 25 yards was about 3/16" or 1/4" above the aim point with a 30 yard zero. Even at 50 yards the pellet drop with a 30 yard zero was only 1 1/2" low.

Anywhoo....I personally prefer having the trajectory "flattened out" at the closer ranges where wind has less influence on the pellet rather than setting up my springer to favor "lottery shot distances".
Well, I guess I should not have opened this post. I suppose my shooting is different than most. I hunt pecan orchards near my home. The trees are spaced at 20 yard intervals. That is why the 40 yard zero. I only hunt with my most accurate rifles,and keep my longest shots to 60 yards.I very seldom shoot under 20 yards,and 60 yards is not even close to a lottery shot with well tuned quality pcps.
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Joined: July 9th, 2015, 1:00 pm

May 31st, 2017, 11:42 am #9

My method is just a "different way" that works for me when stalking or still hunting squirrels at unknown distances.

While I've shot some pretty good groups at 50 yards with my break barrel .177 R9 and I nailed two squirrels from an old oak tree at a lazer measured 65 yards I thought I was "Ole Dan'l Boone" reincarnated till I did a little test under field conditions at 50 yards. Here are a couple 50 yard 5 shot groups shot with my .177 cal break barrels......

Just for grins I glued 20 paint balls to a piece of cardboard, placed it 50 yards from my "bucket and sticks" sitting position, then did some shooting using my normal "bucket and sticks" still hunting set up.........

Well, after shooting the 20 paint balls I was a bit dismayed to see that I had hit only 50% of the PBs, however what really stood out was how far away some of the misses were!! Matter of fact, since most misses were to th eright about the same distance I'm thinking that I hadn't judged the wind drift properly. LOL....for my shooting skills "from bucket and sticks" a 50 yard shot on a squirrel is indeed a "lottery shot" if I expected a "90% hit to retrieve ratio"!
Here is a pic of that target shot years ago when living in the hills of West Virginia.........



Anywhoo...thanks for posting "your method" so we could "kick around" differing methods based on different equipment and different shooting styles. As long as you're getting at least an 80% hit to retrieve ratio at 60yards then you're certainly not "lottery shooting" with your "well tuned quality pcp"! My reply was simply to explain why I believe "most shooters want their scopes mounted as low as possible" in response to your question.
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Joined: February 2nd, 2005, 5:57 pm

May 31st, 2017, 11:39 pm #10

...at short ranges while tall mounts favor longer ranges, especially for direct ("point blank") shooting.

This application by Perry Babin illustrates how mount height affects trajectory.



Click: http://www.arld1.com/trajectorypbr2.html
this results in less calculations (up & down)....So it is my goal to get the Lowest cheek weld possible and the closest to the bore with Low as possible rings. We have enough to consider Left and Right via wind....For me in Hunting and quick shots closest to bore as comfortable and accurate.
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