Polymeric Perplexities and other Anomalies--(Brought to Top)

Polymeric Perplexities and other Anomalies--(Brought to Top)

Joined: June 30th, 2006, 7:52 pm

October 26th, 2006, 9:39 pm #1

I must agree with Ken concerning the nature of polymer (plastic) on my Shadow 1000. Having an academic knowledge and a practical working knowledge of a wide variety of polymers over a period of many years I am utterly amazed at the accounts of THIS type of plastic "shattering". This type of polymer is used precisely because of it's nature (chemical structural bonding at the atomic level) so as to remain "brittle free". In fact, it deforms primarily, rather than "breaks"(cracks, shatters etc.) And yet I have had lengthy conversations with one who has spoken to "victims" as well as factory reps. There are those that feel strongly their stock has shattered, as in brittle. I can only assume two things: 1.Some outside influence i.e. chemical solvents, Ultraviolet rays, extremes in temperatures, exposure to excessive ozone levels (close to elec. motors),physical mishandling, or my personal favorite, the VAST Unknown. The other of the two things is: a bad batch of resin at the factory, or a replacement stock of NON Gamo origins unbeknownst to the purchaser or a supplying vendor. I know this is a subject of some controversy and take great interest in it because I love my Gamo and if something is genuinely wrong I want to be among the first to know. Perhaps one last thought , could SEMANTICS be involved here in any way?
Last edited by jdphill on October 26th, 2006, 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 19th, 2006, 8:49 am

October 26th, 2006, 9:56 pm #2

I'm very concered too. I bought a 2006 Shadow Sport for my son.






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Joined: February 17th, 2004, 1:35 am

October 26th, 2006, 10:14 pm #3

I must agree with Ken concerning the nature of polymer (plastic) on my Shadow 1000. Having an academic knowledge and a practical working knowledge of a wide variety of polymers over a period of many years I am utterly amazed at the accounts of THIS type of plastic "shattering". This type of polymer is used precisely because of it's nature (chemical structural bonding at the atomic level) so as to remain "brittle free". In fact, it deforms primarily, rather than "breaks"(cracks, shatters etc.) And yet I have had lengthy conversations with one who has spoken to "victims" as well as factory reps. There are those that feel strongly their stock has shattered, as in brittle. I can only assume two things: 1.Some outside influence i.e. chemical solvents, Ultraviolet rays, extremes in temperatures, exposure to excessive ozone levels (close to elec. motors),physical mishandling, or my personal favorite, the VAST Unknown. The other of the two things is: a bad batch of resin at the factory, or a replacement stock of NON Gamo origins unbeknownst to the purchaser or a supplying vendor. I know this is a subject of some controversy and take great interest in it because I love my Gamo and if something is genuinely wrong I want to be among the first to know. Perhaps one last thought , could SEMANTICS be involved here in any way?
regularly, though. It does not take a lot of time to be on the safe side. Ric
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Joined: February 14th, 2006, 4:12 pm

October 26th, 2006, 10:21 pm #4

I must agree with Ken concerning the nature of polymer (plastic) on my Shadow 1000. Having an academic knowledge and a practical working knowledge of a wide variety of polymers over a period of many years I am utterly amazed at the accounts of THIS type of plastic "shattering". This type of polymer is used precisely because of it's nature (chemical structural bonding at the atomic level) so as to remain "brittle free". In fact, it deforms primarily, rather than "breaks"(cracks, shatters etc.) And yet I have had lengthy conversations with one who has spoken to "victims" as well as factory reps. There are those that feel strongly their stock has shattered, as in brittle. I can only assume two things: 1.Some outside influence i.e. chemical solvents, Ultraviolet rays, extremes in temperatures, exposure to excessive ozone levels (close to elec. motors),physical mishandling, or my personal favorite, the VAST Unknown. The other of the two things is: a bad batch of resin at the factory, or a replacement stock of NON Gamo origins unbeknownst to the purchaser or a supplying vendor. I know this is a subject of some controversy and take great interest in it because I love my Gamo and if something is genuinely wrong I want to be among the first to know. Perhaps one last thought , could SEMANTICS be involved here in any way?
layman's terms. I think the greater caution with these stocks should be to avoid the things you mention. Solvents, prolonged exposure to sunlight- as in pick-up gun rack, extreme sub-zero cold, WD-40, etc.
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Joined: September 1st, 2001, 6:38 pm

October 27th, 2006, 4:54 pm #5

I must agree with Ken concerning the nature of polymer (plastic) on my Shadow 1000. Having an academic knowledge and a practical working knowledge of a wide variety of polymers over a period of many years I am utterly amazed at the accounts of THIS type of plastic "shattering". This type of polymer is used precisely because of it's nature (chemical structural bonding at the atomic level) so as to remain "brittle free". In fact, it deforms primarily, rather than "breaks"(cracks, shatters etc.) And yet I have had lengthy conversations with one who has spoken to "victims" as well as factory reps. There are those that feel strongly their stock has shattered, as in brittle. I can only assume two things: 1.Some outside influence i.e. chemical solvents, Ultraviolet rays, extremes in temperatures, exposure to excessive ozone levels (close to elec. motors),physical mishandling, or my personal favorite, the VAST Unknown. The other of the two things is: a bad batch of resin at the factory, or a replacement stock of NON Gamo origins unbeknownst to the purchaser or a supplying vendor. I know this is a subject of some controversy and take great interest in it because I love my Gamo and if something is genuinely wrong I want to be among the first to know. Perhaps one last thought , could SEMANTICS be involved here in any way?
However, I recently helped someone add some weight to the argument of those who have verbally attacked me for making a simple, fact-based and informative post.

Now, just from my perspective, there are no good percentages in taking shots at the qualified spring-gun tuners on the forum. First of all, there aren't that many of us that post here. And, the attackers won't answer your questions about real airgun tuning matters, because they can't. They accuse, they try to pick a fight, then they sit back and hope for fireworks. When it comes to actual tuning experience, the best they can do is give you that famous, Homer Simpson blinking stare--lol.

Many have asked for first-person testimony, and I understand that. But, it's been there on www.yellowforum.com for months. I even added it to my own post. Some may have missed it, or may have chosen not to read it. In either case, here is the owner's original post:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1137880107/


And, here's the owner's email, in response to my own investigation by email (that email of mine is also there):

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/me ... 161227155/

If people sincerely want more first-hand details, I guess they need to go to work like I did. They can contact Gamo themselves, like I did, and see what they have to say about the subject as of this date.

They could also try to solicit more information from person to whom it happened, like I did, since I wasn't there. However, at this point, I'm not sure he'd get within 10 feet of the whole issue. That's about half the distance I'm keeping myself---with one or two rare exceptions.


Regards,

Ed

Last edited by ekmeister on November 3rd, 2006, 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 14th, 2006, 4:12 pm

October 27th, 2006, 6:47 pm #6

I really do view you as one of "the Good Guys" in the tune business. We are concerned when we read this stuff because we all own these synthetic stocks and want to make sure they are safe. Most of the guys (including me) have probably treated these stocks a lot more roughly than we have our wood stocked guns. I will, as RicDoug has suggested, keep a vigilant eye open for any cracks in these stocks. And should I find them, I will photograph and post the evidence here.
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Joined: September 1st, 2001, 6:38 pm

October 27th, 2006, 11:56 pm #7

It's a lot easier to say that when you're not the target. You weren't.

I was. Me.

I saw the post to which you refer. But many, many other posts weren't nearly as kind. I got roasted and then some.

Here's the thing, since some of you guys pushed it: Gamo airguns are just another line of fast-assembled, cash money-making airguns--nothing more. Any reports of possible, atypical harm from using them should be reported, just like I did in this case. I'm sticking to my guns about that.

I was called a rumor-monger and worse by more than a few people. It included vulgar obscenities. One or two people said it was their very purpose in life to de-bunk such unsubstantiated claims (and people) as mine (and me). That's absurd, when I wasn't the one who posted about the Gamo stock breakage problem in the first place. That was someone else, right here on the forum:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1137880107/

Yes, I got credit for my "good motives" in a recent thread, but had already been repeatedly insulted as to my intelligence and credibilty for repeating such a made-up story by the authors. That's just another way of saying, "He's a liar and a dummy, but he's got a heart of gold" Excuse who? That's no compliment.

The verbal attacks included remarks that I was repeating hearsay, rumor, etc. Maybe I shouldn't hold that against some of the attackers. Maybe that's the best they can do. I say that because they had obviously read the owner's original post about the stock breakage in January of this year on this forum. They posted replies to him in the thread. Now it's October, and they want to know where I came up with such a thing? I even re-posted it in my own thead, but I can't make them admit to what they want to forget.

Now, if all that was said and done about you...how would you take it? If you tell me, "No problem", I won't ever believe you again.

FWIW, if I didn't think you were a fairly stand-up guy, I wouldn't even be answering your post--if that tells you anything. I don't waste my time like that.

As to those who went on and on about my rumor-mongering, any Gamo stock accidents can be on their heads (unintentional pun---but duly noted). I passed on an easy-to-understand warning, so my conscience is clear. If someone's poor little kid gets their teeth broken because of the problem, it won't be because of me. Any complaints should be sent to those who said that it was impossible.

BTW, who bothered to call Gamo, contacted the originator of the complaint, and made a report on the forum about what they found out? It wasn't the guys hurling the questions and insults at me. That's nothing but hot air in my book.

Regards,

Ed

The Airgun Tune-Meister
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ekreally/m ... iness.html


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---S.M.
Last edited by ekmeister on October 28th, 2006, 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 14th, 2006, 4:12 pm

October 28th, 2006, 12:30 am #8

your initial report of this stock problem. And like anything else it is up to the individual to read "Brian's" original post (thank you for linking it) and judge it on its merits. That post was put up about a month before I started posting here. Since the report Robert Fisher posted was corrected to read "Chinese clone" not Gamo, that leaves us with this one report (Brian). Ricdoug seemed to be aggravating the issue with generalizations and innuendos, but you were not a part of that. So everything else was between Rick and Piper and to a lesser degree myself. Again, we will watch for the stock failures. These guns really get abused because from my observations kids that have trouble mustering the strength to cock a springer in a fluid linear motion, put strain on the action and stock in ways the mfr. never dreamed possible. I have seen this first hand.
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Joined: September 1st, 2001, 6:38 pm

October 28th, 2006, 5:00 am #9

I'm not going to go back and read it all again, still, I seem to remember some specifics written by a few people that definitely included me (maybe not your posts at all---there are too many to remember). But, your post here reads like you understand what I did, and why I did it--and are giving me some credit for it. That's good enough for me. I have to tell you, that anything like some fair treatment about this subject right now is very much appreciated.

I usually just turn the screwdrivers on these beasts, and try to offer a word of advice or encouragement here and there where I can. I don't like to be in the middle of a hornet's nest anymore than the next guy. Thank you very much for sharing your own sense of sanity about all this. You are obviously among the peacemakers here, and that's certainly a good thing.

Regards,

Ed


The Airgun Tune-Meister
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ekreally/m ... iness.html


"We can rebuild the squirrel. Make him stronger, faster...We have the technology"---S.M.
Last edited by ekmeister on October 28th, 2006, 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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