PELLET WARS!!!... USA or OFFSHORE Brands?....

PELLET WARS!!!... USA or OFFSHORE Brands?....

Joined: October 9th, 2005, 2:33 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 1:17 am #1

There seems to be a rolling debate about the potential quality or lack thereof as it relates to pellets manufactured in the USA. Some seem to praise offshore producers as the premier pellet manufacturers, and religously buy them in mass quanities. Well I shoot US manufactuered pellets and got to wondering just how poorly do USA made pellets fair in competition. So I took a look at some of the results from the 2010 Natonals to see what it yielded in terms of who the people that placed were and what pellet choices they were making at the time.

Here is what I found.........

Harold Rushton is beating up everyone in sight with Crosman Pellets. Team Crosman shoots Crosman pellets who win events at a amazing rate. Then if we look at the Nationals last year about 1/3 of all the competitors shot Crosman lead. I would say the US is doing something right in it's pellet production, but let's dig a little deeeper and see what we can find out from the 2011 Nats results. So with that said, let's do a short breakout of who did what shooting Crosman pellets at the Nationals last year.



The Champ in PCP shot Crosman.

There were 5 competitors total in that class, and 4 of the 5 shot Crosman Lead.

In the PFT Iron/ Reddot class 4-11 shot Crosman lead with one of the top 3 finishers shooting CR pellets.

Scoped PFT's top 2 competitors shot Crosman.

Half of the people in that were winners of the team competition (California) shot Crosman lead

I won't go over all the division/ classes but its apparent that Crosman Pellets see to be able to compete easily, and win against other pellets brands deemed better by some that prefer them.



It is what it is, because it is!!!
Last edited by gregc107 on June 23rd, 2011, 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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-bp
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 4:21 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 1:42 am #2

i have a tin of AA falcons which i compared to CPLs (in .177)

the surface of the falcons appears to be twice as smooth (that's hardly a quantitative expression) as the CPLs.

the AA falcons fit more loosely in my B-26 barrel (that means nothing with respect to quality, just a size difference)

when i weighed 500 falcons i got a bell curve about half as wide as i got with about 500 CPLs, however i was weighing down to .02grains, so although one curve was 2x as wide as another, you're not talking major deviation anyway.

i'm pretty much sold on CPLs. and although i shoot a B-26, i like crosman, like their products, and intend to try one soon enough.

oh--and i haven't found a pellet that shoots better than or equal to the CPLs

-bp
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Joined: August 24th, 2003, 10:09 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 3:17 am #3

There seems to be a rolling debate about the potential quality or lack thereof as it relates to pellets manufactured in the USA. Some seem to praise offshore producers as the premier pellet manufacturers, and religously buy them in mass quanities. Well I shoot US manufactuered pellets and got to wondering just how poorly do USA made pellets fair in competition. So I took a look at some of the results from the 2010 Natonals to see what it yielded in terms of who the people that placed were and what pellet choices they were making at the time.

Here is what I found.........

Harold Rushton is beating up everyone in sight with Crosman Pellets. Team Crosman shoots Crosman pellets who win events at a amazing rate. Then if we look at the Nationals last year about 1/3 of all the competitors shot Crosman lead. I would say the US is doing something right in it's pellet production, but let's dig a little deeeper and see what we can find out from the 2011 Nats results. So with that said, let's do a short breakout of who did what shooting Crosman pellets at the Nationals last year.



The Champ in PCP shot Crosman.

There were 5 competitors total in that class, and 4 of the 5 shot Crosman Lead.

In the PFT Iron/ Reddot class 4-11 shot Crosman lead with one of the top 3 finishers shooting CR pellets.

Scoped PFT's top 2 competitors shot Crosman.

Half of the people in that were winners of the team competition (California) shot Crosman lead

I won't go over all the division/ classes but its apparent that Crosman Pellets see to be able to compete easily, and win against other pellets brands deemed better by some that prefer them.



It is what it is, because it is!!!
...that shoot well, have an involved sorting system for CP pellets usually for both weight and head diameter.

Of course they do this for the best pellets and to segregate the pellets into a system of lots, (competition, practice, plinking, etc.)

And I would think there's a better than average chance that the sorting method isn't as effective with other brands.

So yep, the numbers don't lie but there's more to it than meets the eye.

I would be curious to know how a box of CP's breaks down into what a shooter considers "match" grade for his rifle.



[url]http://mountcheahaairgunners.shutterfly ... HARE3SXXXX[/url]
Last edited by libertyman777 on June 23rd, 2011, 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 7th, 2001, 3:52 am

June 23rd, 2011, 4:08 am #4

There seems to be a rolling debate about the potential quality or lack thereof as it relates to pellets manufactured in the USA. Some seem to praise offshore producers as the premier pellet manufacturers, and religously buy them in mass quanities. Well I shoot US manufactuered pellets and got to wondering just how poorly do USA made pellets fair in competition. So I took a look at some of the results from the 2010 Natonals to see what it yielded in terms of who the people that placed were and what pellet choices they were making at the time.

Here is what I found.........

Harold Rushton is beating up everyone in sight with Crosman Pellets. Team Crosman shoots Crosman pellets who win events at a amazing rate. Then if we look at the Nationals last year about 1/3 of all the competitors shot Crosman lead. I would say the US is doing something right in it's pellet production, but let's dig a little deeeper and see what we can find out from the 2011 Nats results. So with that said, let's do a short breakout of who did what shooting Crosman pellets at the Nationals last year.



The Champ in PCP shot Crosman.

There were 5 competitors total in that class, and 4 of the 5 shot Crosman Lead.

In the PFT Iron/ Reddot class 4-11 shot Crosman lead with one of the top 3 finishers shooting CR pellets.

Scoped PFT's top 2 competitors shot Crosman.

Half of the people in that were winners of the team competition (California) shot Crosman lead

I won't go over all the division/ classes but its apparent that Crosman Pellets see to be able to compete easily, and win against other pellets brands deemed better by some that prefer them.



It is what it is, because it is!!!
About the same time JSB's came along and shot better in all my testing anyway. Mind you, I've never tested guns with weighed, sorted, washed and lubed pellets. Maybe weighed, sorted, washed and lubed Premiers outshoot weighed, sorted, washed and lubed JSB's in the kind of guns used by shooters that don't mind that kinda nonsense, but I'll never know. Happy to take you guys' word for it.
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Joined: July 6th, 2002, 8:59 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 4:21 am #5

There seems to be a rolling debate about the potential quality or lack thereof as it relates to pellets manufactured in the USA. Some seem to praise offshore producers as the premier pellet manufacturers, and religously buy them in mass quanities. Well I shoot US manufactuered pellets and got to wondering just how poorly do USA made pellets fair in competition. So I took a look at some of the results from the 2010 Natonals to see what it yielded in terms of who the people that placed were and what pellet choices they were making at the time.

Here is what I found.........

Harold Rushton is beating up everyone in sight with Crosman Pellets. Team Crosman shoots Crosman pellets who win events at a amazing rate. Then if we look at the Nationals last year about 1/3 of all the competitors shot Crosman lead. I would say the US is doing something right in it's pellet production, but let's dig a little deeeper and see what we can find out from the 2011 Nats results. So with that said, let's do a short breakout of who did what shooting Crosman pellets at the Nationals last year.



The Champ in PCP shot Crosman.

There were 5 competitors total in that class, and 4 of the 5 shot Crosman Lead.

In the PFT Iron/ Reddot class 4-11 shot Crosman lead with one of the top 3 finishers shooting CR pellets.

Scoped PFT's top 2 competitors shot Crosman.

Half of the people in that were winners of the team competition (California) shot Crosman lead

I won't go over all the division/ classes but its apparent that Crosman Pellets see to be able to compete easily, and win against other pellets brands deemed better by some that prefer them.



It is what it is, because it is!!!
I'm pretty sure there's a lot of work behind the results we're witnessing... And if any of us want to perform at that level, we better be prepared to do more than just: clean, sort, and lube CP's.

HookEm
Last edited by HookEm on June 23rd, 2011, 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 11th, 2008, 4:43 am

June 23rd, 2011, 4:37 am #6

There seems to be a rolling debate about the potential quality or lack thereof as it relates to pellets manufactured in the USA. Some seem to praise offshore producers as the premier pellet manufacturers, and religously buy them in mass quanities. Well I shoot US manufactuered pellets and got to wondering just how poorly do USA made pellets fair in competition. So I took a look at some of the results from the 2010 Natonals to see what it yielded in terms of who the people that placed were and what pellet choices they were making at the time.

Here is what I found.........

Harold Rushton is beating up everyone in sight with Crosman Pellets. Team Crosman shoots Crosman pellets who win events at a amazing rate. Then if we look at the Nationals last year about 1/3 of all the competitors shot Crosman lead. I would say the US is doing something right in it's pellet production, but let's dig a little deeeper and see what we can find out from the 2011 Nats results. So with that said, let's do a short breakout of who did what shooting Crosman pellets at the Nationals last year.



The Champ in PCP shot Crosman.

There were 5 competitors total in that class, and 4 of the 5 shot Crosman Lead.

In the PFT Iron/ Reddot class 4-11 shot Crosman lead with one of the top 3 finishers shooting CR pellets.

Scoped PFT's top 2 competitors shot Crosman.

Half of the people in that were winners of the team competition (California) shot Crosman lead

I won't go over all the division/ classes but its apparent that Crosman Pellets see to be able to compete easily, and win against other pellets brands deemed better by some that prefer them.



It is what it is, because it is!!!
I captured some data since 1999 and compiled into one file. The accuracy may not be 100% as data replication, spelling errors etc cause havoc with lookups and placing into the table. I corrected the best I knew and populated the data from there. Ok so anyway that is my release of error ownership! Hahaha...

Back before I started I looked around to see what folks were using to get an idea of what I wanted for my personal use. From there I could see there are many capabile guns and accessories so I choose what I felt like was the coolest and fit my own style.

Here is a table of the top 3 shooters equipment since 1999. I have the top 10, but he table is too large to display cleanly on a single photo view. Next are just the first place shooters. Only open class for the selections. I was planning to shoot open, so this is why I choose this group.

Only 4 shooters using JSB in the top 3 since 1999. Are the numbers shaded based on when the other flavors were available...?? I don't know... That is WAY before my time!

[/IMG]

Here the first place finishers... Only 1 JSB winner since 1999.

I'm sure Tim don't mind seeing this table again with 5 out of the last 10 being the USFT!

[/IMG]

Personal experience with pellets and all... My first FT rig was MFR that heavily favored the CPH so I shot CPH. My current Steyr will shoot CPH and JSB equally well. I have a pile of JSB so that is what I will most likely shoot until I run out... I let the barrel pick the pellet.
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Joined: October 9th, 2005, 2:33 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 7:10 am #7

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of work behind the results we're witnessing... And if any of us want to perform at that level, we better be prepared to do more than just: clean, sort, and lube CP's.

HookEm
example. So we know he make what would be the obvious best choice. His choice was a USA made pellet. Mind you that this post was not just about Harold alone. It's about the need for some to say that we dont have a quality pellet made in the US, but I don't think that we can deny numbers that show otherwise. Am I telling people to run and buy Crosman pellets?... Nooooope!!

But I am saying that it does seem to be a myth when you look at what won in last year's Nats..Im sure if we did a survery of match results we see a consistent statistic show itself that mimics what I said about Crosman pellets. I dont think its fair to say Crosman pellets are junk compared to offshore brands when the numbers show they win and win alot as a choice by some high profile shooters in the Field Target rankings.

It is what it is, because it is!!!
Last edited by gregc107 on June 23rd, 2011, 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 9th, 2005, 2:33 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 7:28 am #8

...that shoot well, have an involved sorting system for CP pellets usually for both weight and head diameter.

Of course they do this for the best pellets and to segregate the pellets into a system of lots, (competition, practice, plinking, etc.)

And I would think there's a better than average chance that the sorting method isn't as effective with other brands.

So yep, the numbers don't lie but there's more to it than meets the eye.

I would be curious to know how a box of CP's breaks down into what a shooter considers "match" grade for his rifle.



[url]http://mountcheahaairgunners.shutterfly ... HARE3SXXXX[/url]
"I would be curious to know how a box of CP's breaks down into what a shooter considers "match" grade for his rifle."


I can answer that!!!

From the whole box there maybe only 20 pellets that I deem junk and so they make it into the scrap pile/tin.

I sort into lots! So I'll do 10.4,10.5,10.6,10.7 since those are the majority of what is in the box yielding a +/- .00002th grain tolerance (Note: that I've found the same tolerance levels of about +/-.0002th gr in say JSBs). The rest that I usally fine and reject are 10.3, 10.8, 11.0 and the few mashed skirts which so far since I've shot CPHs amount to like 1/0th of a tin maybe so far.

After they are sorted into the largest groups I consider all of those shootable match-grade pellets. A click or two at sight in can be used if need be to adjust for poi from one lot to the next if one chooses. But I don't have a plink/practice piles. I comnpete with them all, but I only shoot one weight in a match. So as an end result there is no mixing sizes here at match time. If I started on Friday shooting 10.6 then I shoot that weight Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.



It is what it is, because it is!!!
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Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 7:33 am #9

I captured some data since 1999 and compiled into one file. The accuracy may not be 100% as data replication, spelling errors etc cause havoc with lookups and placing into the table. I corrected the best I knew and populated the data from there. Ok so anyway that is my release of error ownership! Hahaha...

Back before I started I looked around to see what folks were using to get an idea of what I wanted for my personal use. From there I could see there are many capabile guns and accessories so I choose what I felt like was the coolest and fit my own style.

Here is a table of the top 3 shooters equipment since 1999. I have the top 10, but he table is too large to display cleanly on a single photo view. Next are just the first place shooters. Only open class for the selections. I was planning to shoot open, so this is why I choose this group.

Only 4 shooters using JSB in the top 3 since 1999. Are the numbers shaded based on when the other flavors were available...?? I don't know... That is WAY before my time!

[/IMG]

Here the first place finishers... Only 1 JSB winner since 1999.

I'm sure Tim don't mind seeing this table again with 5 out of the last 10 being the USFT!

[/IMG]

Personal experience with pellets and all... My first FT rig was MFR that heavily favored the CPH so I shot CPH. My current Steyr will shoot CPH and JSB equally well. I have a pile of JSB so that is what I will most likely shoot until I run out... I let the barrel pick the pellet.


Good stuff there Johnny!!!

Still shooting those Die 40s?

Regards,

Tony
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Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 7:40 am #10

There seems to be a rolling debate about the potential quality or lack thereof as it relates to pellets manufactured in the USA. Some seem to praise offshore producers as the premier pellet manufacturers, and religously buy them in mass quanities. Well I shoot US manufactuered pellets and got to wondering just how poorly do USA made pellets fair in competition. So I took a look at some of the results from the 2010 Natonals to see what it yielded in terms of who the people that placed were and what pellet choices they were making at the time.

Here is what I found.........

Harold Rushton is beating up everyone in sight with Crosman Pellets. Team Crosman shoots Crosman pellets who win events at a amazing rate. Then if we look at the Nationals last year about 1/3 of all the competitors shot Crosman lead. I would say the US is doing something right in it's pellet production, but let's dig a little deeeper and see what we can find out from the 2011 Nats results. So with that said, let's do a short breakout of who did what shooting Crosman pellets at the Nationals last year.



The Champ in PCP shot Crosman.

There were 5 competitors total in that class, and 4 of the 5 shot Crosman Lead.

In the PFT Iron/ Reddot class 4-11 shot Crosman lead with one of the top 3 finishers shooting CR pellets.

Scoped PFT's top 2 competitors shot Crosman.

Half of the people in that were winners of the team competition (California) shot Crosman lead

I won't go over all the division/ classes but its apparent that Crosman Pellets see to be able to compete easily, and win against other pellets brands deemed better by some that prefer them.



It is what it is, because it is!!!
WFTF are going to be shooting JSBH at this year's Nationals...

Interesting topic you've raised...be interesting to see how the Pellet Wars turn out at year's end!

Regards,

Tony
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