Pellet design...Tube pellets ... Experiment # 1 ...

Pellet design...Tube pellets ... Experiment # 1 ...

Joined: April 25th, 2003, 11:44 pm

April 25th, 2010, 1:17 pm #1

"Pellet design...What would happen if."... The question was asked (bottom of page)http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/me ... +happen+if.....

First question: Will a tube pellet shoot and group?
I have last night returned home from the bush, read this this morning, and as LD and I had discussed this some years ago, I did a pilot study for Ron.

Only had 15 yards here today but here is the result.
Three .22 cal Predator pellets had their polymer tips removes and then they were hand drilled thus:

Predator pellet and with tip removed -

[/IMG]

Pellet drilled with felt cleaning pellet wad for sealing the bore to drive the pellet through the barrel -

[/IMG]

A group of three de-tipped Predators were shot into the lower group one hole and one drilled pellet with wad follower was shot - top hole in the POA -

[/IMG]

A second drilled "tube" pellet was shot touching the first -

[/IMG]

A third drilled pellet was shot to form a 3 shot "group of "tube" pellets -

[/IMG]

The group formed a tad higher than the untreated pellets which may or may not be because of diminished weight. The hand drilling was not perfectly centred so some improvement could be anticipated. But there is little indication of yaw.

Shot from sitting on the ground with a rest on a chair. BSA Hornet (Bowkett) .22 cal shooting at around 890 fps when last tested with JSB 15.9 gr Exacts. MV would be similar with the untreated de-pointed Predators but unknown with the drilled "tube" pellets + felt chaser. The felt cleaning pellets landed on the ground about half way to the target.

So, the first answer is that a pellet with a hole through it can be shot to a tight group at 15 yards from a less than "benched" shooting position. They appear to stabilize well.
These were the only shots taken and are not selected from a number.

Make of it what you will Ron and all, but it is interesting and I shall extend the test range when possible. ... I may even do a "Myna bird damage comparison test" when opportunity prevails.
Will they cut a neat hole? Turn sideways? Expand? Only testing will tell.
Hope this is of some interest ... Kind regards, Yrrah.


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Joined: May 12th, 2001, 1:29 pm

April 25th, 2010, 2:07 pm #2

That would make the area of the hole ~(2/5.5)^2 = 1/7th of the total frontal area of the 5.5mm pellet.

Close?

Steve
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Joined: November 17th, 2006, 3:51 am

April 25th, 2010, 2:19 pm #3

"Pellet design...What would happen if."... The question was asked (bottom of page)http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/me ... +happen+if.....

First question: Will a tube pellet shoot and group?
I have last night returned home from the bush, read this this morning, and as LD and I had discussed this some years ago, I did a pilot study for Ron.

Only had 15 yards here today but here is the result.
Three .22 cal Predator pellets had their polymer tips removes and then they were hand drilled thus:

Predator pellet and with tip removed -

[/IMG]

Pellet drilled with felt cleaning pellet wad for sealing the bore to drive the pellet through the barrel -

[/IMG]

A group of three de-tipped Predators were shot into the lower group one hole and one drilled pellet with wad follower was shot - top hole in the POA -

[/IMG]

A second drilled "tube" pellet was shot touching the first -

[/IMG]

A third drilled pellet was shot to form a 3 shot "group of "tube" pellets -

[/IMG]

The group formed a tad higher than the untreated pellets which may or may not be because of diminished weight. The hand drilling was not perfectly centred so some improvement could be anticipated. But there is little indication of yaw.

Shot from sitting on the ground with a rest on a chair. BSA Hornet (Bowkett) .22 cal shooting at around 890 fps when last tested with JSB 15.9 gr Exacts. MV would be similar with the untreated de-pointed Predators but unknown with the drilled "tube" pellets + felt chaser. The felt cleaning pellets landed on the ground about half way to the target.

So, the first answer is that a pellet with a hole through it can be shot to a tight group at 15 yards from a less than "benched" shooting position. They appear to stabilize well.
These were the only shots taken and are not selected from a number.

Make of it what you will Ron and all, but it is interesting and I shall extend the test range when possible. ... I may even do a "Myna bird damage comparison test" when opportunity prevails.
Will they cut a neat hole? Turn sideways? Expand? Only testing will tell.
Hope this is of some interest ... Kind regards, Yrrah.

Was worried that the pusher would get trapped in the hollow base and not fall away cleanly every time. Having some shots with the pusher clinging on for 10 yards while others let go of it at 2 yards didn't seem productive, but evidently the felt cleaning pellets don't self-jam themselves into the base. Was thinking about drilling some 25cal pellets and using an AirSoft ball (about 24 cal) as a pusher, hoping to avoid that cling-on effect.

Years ago, PMC sold tubular copper handgun ammo based on Flatau's design (believe they ended up paying a royalty)... UltraMag?,,, used a plastic pusher that fell away, leaving a copper .38 or .44 tube spinning towards the target. Didn't measure it, but the tunnel though these bullets looked to be somewhere between 5.5mm and 6mm. Do know they were fast (being all copper, were light) and also know that that plastic pushier base would fall away early enough and had enough energy to totally wreck a chronograph screen.

Last edited by gubb33ps on April 25th, 2010, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 10th, 2003, 5:24 am

April 25th, 2010, 2:31 pm #4

"Pellet design...What would happen if."... The question was asked (bottom of page)http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/me ... +happen+if.....

First question: Will a tube pellet shoot and group?
I have last night returned home from the bush, read this this morning, and as LD and I had discussed this some years ago, I did a pilot study for Ron.

Only had 15 yards here today but here is the result.
Three .22 cal Predator pellets had their polymer tips removes and then they were hand drilled thus:

Predator pellet and with tip removed -

[/IMG]

Pellet drilled with felt cleaning pellet wad for sealing the bore to drive the pellet through the barrel -

[/IMG]

A group of three de-tipped Predators were shot into the lower group one hole and one drilled pellet with wad follower was shot - top hole in the POA -

[/IMG]

A second drilled "tube" pellet was shot touching the first -

[/IMG]

A third drilled pellet was shot to form a 3 shot "group of "tube" pellets -

[/IMG]

The group formed a tad higher than the untreated pellets which may or may not be because of diminished weight. The hand drilling was not perfectly centred so some improvement could be anticipated. But there is little indication of yaw.

Shot from sitting on the ground with a rest on a chair. BSA Hornet (Bowkett) .22 cal shooting at around 890 fps when last tested with JSB 15.9 gr Exacts. MV would be similar with the untreated de-pointed Predators but unknown with the drilled "tube" pellets + felt chaser. The felt cleaning pellets landed on the ground about half way to the target.

So, the first answer is that a pellet with a hole through it can be shot to a tight group at 15 yards from a less than "benched" shooting position. They appear to stabilize well.
These were the only shots taken and are not selected from a number.

Make of it what you will Ron and all, but it is interesting and I shall extend the test range when possible. ... I may even do a "Myna bird damage comparison test" when opportunity prevails.
Will they cut a neat hole? Turn sideways? Expand? Only testing will tell.
Hope this is of some interest ... Kind regards, Yrrah.

I didn't realize this idea was quite that old, being familiar with the recent tube bullets. Now, how do these penetrate in test media? The old professor back in 1893 reported reduced penetration, hence the military losing interest in them.

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Joined: April 25th, 2003, 11:44 pm

April 25th, 2010, 2:40 pm #5

That would make the area of the hole ~(2/5.5)^2 = 1/7th of the total frontal area of the 5.5mm pellet.

Close?

Steve
Yes - 2.00 mm. I can get a 2.5 mm drill through without exiting the side of the narrow neck of the Predators. Maybe I'll give that a try tomorrow. .... Kind regards, Harry.
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Joined: April 25th, 2003, 11:44 pm

April 25th, 2010, 2:49 pm #6

I didn't realize this idea was quite that old, being familiar with the recent tube bullets. Now, how do these penetrate in test media? The old professor back in 1893 reported reduced penetration, hence the military losing interest in them.
They compacted onto it "point" on and flatted. Will shoot some into pine boards tomorrow maybe. It's 12:45 am now and I drove 750 kms yesterday so must hit the hay soon. Just stayed up to show a token response now ...
Big day in OZ today - Anzac Day ... Kind regards, Harry.
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Joined: April 25th, 2003, 11:44 pm

April 25th, 2010, 2:57 pm #7

Was worried that the pusher would get trapped in the hollow base and not fall away cleanly every time. Having some shots with the pusher clinging on for 10 yards while others let go of it at 2 yards didn't seem productive, but evidently the felt cleaning pellets don't self-jam themselves into the base. Was thinking about drilling some 25cal pellets and using an AirSoft ball (about 24 cal) as a pusher, hoping to avoid that cling-on effect.

Years ago, PMC sold tubular copper handgun ammo based on Flatau's design (believe they ended up paying a royalty)... UltraMag?,,, used a plastic pusher that fell away, leaving a copper .38 or .44 tube spinning towards the target. Didn't measure it, but the tunnel though these bullets looked to be somewhere between 5.5mm and 6mm. Do know they were fast (being all copper, were light) and also know that that plastic pushier base would fall away early enough and had enough energy to totally wreck a chronograph screen.
Yes, a bit of fun and I agree. We can muse over lots of things and be dead wrong.
We'll see if they hold up at 25 yards, if so I'll get more interested and do some longer range tests at the farm in a week's time when we get up there. I was sufficiently surprised at the result to scheme on a Myna ambush with post mort ... Kind regards, Harry.
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Joined: October 10th, 2003, 5:24 am

April 25th, 2010, 2:58 pm #8

They compacted onto it "point" on and flatted. Will shoot some into pine boards tomorrow maybe. It's 12:45 am now and I drove 750 kms yesterday so must hit the hay soon. Just stayed up to show a token response now ...
Big day in OZ today - Anzac Day ... Kind regards, Harry.
Thanks. I certainly didn't mean for you to haul out the gun, etc, right away. Just maybe next time if you decided to try another batch. This discussion sort of reminds me of the early French bullet experiments by Minie. Got any balsa wood plugs, etc? What's old is new, again deparment.

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Joined: November 17th, 2006, 3:51 am

April 25th, 2010, 3:32 pm #9

Yes, a bit of fun and I agree. We can muse over lots of things and be dead wrong.
We'll see if they hold up at 25 yards, if so I'll get more interested and do some longer range tests at the farm in a week's time when we get up there. I was sufficiently surprised at the result to scheme on a Myna ambush with post mort ... Kind regards, Harry.
Know that pellet bases do "bump up" when kicked in the rump with 3K air, so am thinking a hard pusher might still let the base get some of that force.
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Joined: September 25th, 2006, 2:19 pm

April 25th, 2010, 4:36 pm #10

"Pellet design...What would happen if."... The question was asked (bottom of page)http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/me ... +happen+if.....

First question: Will a tube pellet shoot and group?
I have last night returned home from the bush, read this this morning, and as LD and I had discussed this some years ago, I did a pilot study for Ron.

Only had 15 yards here today but here is the result.
Three .22 cal Predator pellets had their polymer tips removes and then they were hand drilled thus:

Predator pellet and with tip removed -

[/IMG]

Pellet drilled with felt cleaning pellet wad for sealing the bore to drive the pellet through the barrel -

[/IMG]

A group of three de-tipped Predators were shot into the lower group one hole and one drilled pellet with wad follower was shot - top hole in the POA -

[/IMG]

A second drilled "tube" pellet was shot touching the first -

[/IMG]

A third drilled pellet was shot to form a 3 shot "group of "tube" pellets -

[/IMG]

The group formed a tad higher than the untreated pellets which may or may not be because of diminished weight. The hand drilling was not perfectly centred so some improvement could be anticipated. But there is little indication of yaw.

Shot from sitting on the ground with a rest on a chair. BSA Hornet (Bowkett) .22 cal shooting at around 890 fps when last tested with JSB 15.9 gr Exacts. MV would be similar with the untreated de-pointed Predators but unknown with the drilled "tube" pellets + felt chaser. The felt cleaning pellets landed on the ground about half way to the target.

So, the first answer is that a pellet with a hole through it can be shot to a tight group at 15 yards from a less than "benched" shooting position. They appear to stabilize well.
These were the only shots taken and are not selected from a number.

Make of it what you will Ron and all, but it is interesting and I shall extend the test range when possible. ... I may even do a "Myna bird damage comparison test" when opportunity prevails.
Will they cut a neat hole? Turn sideways? Expand? Only testing will tell.
Hope this is of some interest ... Kind regards, Yrrah.

I'm glad someone as dilligent as yourself saw fit to give er a whirl.

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