New guy here

New guy here

Joined: January 24th, 2009, 5:47 pm

June 24th, 2012, 11:41 am #1

Hello all. New lathe owner here. I have just purchased a slightly used Speedway 7X12 so I can have a bit of learning fun. I would like to make guides eventually. I was looking for advice for Delrin, which seems to be the best choice. I see several different grades online, and was looking for a recommendation. I also wanted to know the most used diameters. Perhaps some 7/8", 1", and 1 1/8" maybe? Perhaps some brass also. I surely won't save any money over a JM kit, but looks like fun tinkering. It should also be useful in the less common guns that I like to play with. Thanks
Quote
Share

Joined: August 20th, 2006, 5:36 am

June 25th, 2012, 12:27 am #2

Just be warned, machining is just as addictive as air guns . I buy most of my machining material here:http://www.onlinemetals.com/ Not the cheapest, but they have a good selection, and they ship fast. McMaster-Carr is also a good source, both for material and tooling. I use the black acetal, but I don't really think it matters much. I also use Nylatron, it's a little harder and slicker than the Delrin. As to size, just depends on what you're working on, I try to have a variety on hand from about 1/2" up to 1-1/2". I also keep a bunch of aluminum on hand, both solid rod and tube, and in pretty much the same variety of sizes. Only a little bit of brass, it's pretty expensive, and I don't have a lot of use for it.

If you don't have cutting tools already, don't waste your time on carbide, get high speed steel. Insert tooling is expensive but convenient, grinding your own is considerably cheaper and offers a lot more flexibility, but you need a grinder, then you need to figure out how to use it. There's a couple reasons there why I'm still using inserts . Later.

Dave
Quote
Share

Joined: January 24th, 2009, 5:47 pm

June 25th, 2012, 1:01 am #3

I am sure this will be as addictive as reloading for pb guns. I won't save any money, but will have fun. I will look at that source for the round stock. What is the aluminum used for?. I only play with springers, so I bet it is useful in pcp guns etc. I got a small variety of tooling with the lathe; a set of the cheap carbide bits, and a few HSS that a machinist ground for the other owner. I have seen the insert tooling, and it looks like a good way to not get overwhelmed with learning too much at the start. I did want to get a better grinder however. Little Machine Shop had a set of formed HSS bits sold with some blanks so a newbie could copy them while learning. That looked a bit interesting. All of my JM kits had the white delrin. Perhaps that is cheaper for a volume producer. The nylatron may be what I should get, as I would be happy to make only a couple of parts a year. Thanks again
Quote
Share

Joined: July 24th, 2010, 1:44 am

June 25th, 2012, 10:52 am #4

Hello all. New lathe owner here. I have just purchased a slightly used Speedway 7X12 so I can have a bit of learning fun. I would like to make guides eventually. I was looking for advice for Delrin, which seems to be the best choice. I see several different grades online, and was looking for a recommendation. I also wanted to know the most used diameters. Perhaps some 7/8", 1", and 1 1/8" maybe? Perhaps some brass also. I surely won't save any money over a JM kit, but looks like fun tinkering. It should also be useful in the less common guns that I like to play with. Thanks
a R10 spring guide from a piece of 1/8" pipe and a flat washer using adrill press, a 25/64 drill bit, files and sandpaper. While pretty crude the guide did tame the spring twang a lot, however I later sprung for a 7x12 Harbor Freight minilathe that I FEEL was made of left over out of spec parts.

Here's a pic of the drill and file guide.


Here's a pic of a Delrin guide, case hardened steel thrust washer and top hat that I made using the tweaked HF minilathe. LOL, I even chopped a couple R1 barrels with a hack saw, then faced/crowned and home choked the barrels for use with my R9s.




Choking one of the barrels using a "choke clamp" made from the hex of a 1" grade 8 bolt that was bored with the HF mini lathe and clamped in a heavy vise.

Here is a target I shot at 50 yards "hunter class field target style" (sittin' on a bucket usin' cross sticks) with one of the home chopped and choked R1 barrels mounted on a R9. Seems that the minilathe crowning didn't hurt the accuracy of the barrel at all!

I later bought a larger bench top lathe from LatheMaster and I've been using the LatheMaster lathe for quite a few years. Here's a pic of the HF minilathe in front of the lathemaster............


With a bit of tweaking/shimming per "Varmint Al's" and "The Little Machine Shop" web sites I was able to do a surprising amount of work. Here is a link to Varmint Al's..............
http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm

I'm not a trained machinist, just a guy who bought some "cheap" (compared to "real") machine tools years ago and started making chips and SCRAP parts. By the way, by the time I tooled up the HF lathe with a 14" long bed and lead screw, quick change tool post (highly recommended), various HHS and carbide bits (carbides didn't work real well in the HF lathe) and other gadgets I had over $800 in a lathe that cost me only around $350 years ago. Yep, even cheap lathes can double their price once you get wrapped up in tooling!

Anywhoo......I've made spring guides from Delrin, steel pipe, tool steel, molly filled nylon, and brass......a I personally prefer Delrin as a guide material for mid power springers like the R9 because it does a really good job of dampening spring vibrations when fitted correctly.

Last edited by nced1 on June 25th, 2012, 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 24th, 2009, 5:47 pm

June 25th, 2012, 11:24 am #5

Thanks Ed. I have read your numerous posts in the past with great interest. As I was looking and researching, I did read enough to stay away from the 7X10(7X8). A couple came up locally, but not for too good of a price in my opinion. The 7X12 was $325 with the chuck, and a handful of bits. I need to get an indicator with my first order of "stuff". The original owners father in law was a machinist at the local Jeep plant, so I believe he squared the machine up. There seems to not be any slop or lash in movement, so maybe I have a good starting point. Thanks again.
Quote
Share

Joined: September 21st, 2007, 12:13 pm

June 25th, 2012, 6:43 pm #6

Hello all. New lathe owner here. I have just purchased a slightly used Speedway 7X12 so I can have a bit of learning fun. I would like to make guides eventually. I was looking for advice for Delrin, which seems to be the best choice. I see several different grades online, and was looking for a recommendation. I also wanted to know the most used diameters. Perhaps some 7/8", 1", and 1 1/8" maybe? Perhaps some brass also. I surely won't save any money over a JM kit, but looks like fun tinkering. It should also be useful in the less common guns that I like to play with. Thanks
place to buy round Brass, 6061 Aluminum, and Black or White Delrin is the usual monthly sales at Enco. And there's always a free Shipping code for $25.00+ floating around on the net. The best place to buy 4130, and hi-grade aluminum tube is Aircraft Spruce they ship quickly, and have very reasonable pricing.
And, as mentioned above stay with hi-grade American Hi Speed Steel index-able tooling best place for that is Warner Tool in Pa. they generally give a discount to hobbyist.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 24th, 2010, 1:44 am

June 25th, 2012, 10:26 pm #7

Thanks for the references! nt
Last edited by nced1 on June 25th, 2012, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 24th, 2010, 1:44 am

June 25th, 2012, 10:55 pm #8

Thanks Ed. I have read your numerous posts in the past with great interest. As I was looking and researching, I did read enough to stay away from the 7X10(7X8). A couple came up locally, but not for too good of a price in my opinion. The 7X12 was $325 with the chuck, and a handful of bits. I need to get an indicator with my first order of "stuff". The original owners father in law was a machinist at the local Jeep plant, so I believe he squared the machine up. There seems to not be any slop or lash in movement, so maybe I have a good starting point. Thanks again.
cutting spring guides! There are many times when I needed a proprietary machine part (like a HW55 piston or a lawn mower part) that is not available, but I was able to make a BETTER replacement using my metal working tools!

Enjoy your new toys....it's actually a bit therapeutic for me and time in the garage goes pretty quickly......just be careful! Flying projectiles like chuck keys left in the chuck can/will make an impression (guess how I know)!
Last edited by nced1 on June 25th, 2012, 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Joined: April 28th, 2010, 12:23 am

June 27th, 2012, 6:12 am #9

Or 3 lol..im just learning so im super aware of where the key is before i press on.but ill do it eventually i guarantee


<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:14px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:underline;text-transform:none;color:#000000;">"i never was much for book learnin"</span>
Quote
Share

Joined: April 28th, 2010, 12:23 am

June 27th, 2012, 6:15 am #10

place to buy round Brass, 6061 Aluminum, and Black or White Delrin is the usual monthly sales at Enco. And there's always a free Shipping code for $25.00+ floating around on the net. The best place to buy 4130, and hi-grade aluminum tube is Aircraft Spruce they ship quickly, and have very reasonable pricing.
And, as mentioned above stay with hi-grade American Hi Speed Steel index-able tooling best place for that is Warner Tool in Pa. they generally give a discount to hobbyist.
3 or more same cutting surfaces for when one is worn?thanks..


<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:14px;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:underline;text-transform:none;color:#000000;">"i never was much for book learnin"</span>
Quote
Share