Kneeling question...

Kneeling question...

Joined: August 14th, 2004, 2:44 am

September 16th, 2012, 1:24 am #1

Man, the kneeling rules have to be the most vague of all. Or maybe I'm just dense. It's usually the latter.

Although it's not SPECIFICALLY mentioned, I gather you can rest the supporting elbow on your knee? "The gun is to be supported solely by the hands, shoulder, and cheek" would seem to preclude this. Yet that's how I shoot, and see others shoot.

So taking that a step farther...

If you can rest the elbow on your knee, and knee pads have long been allowed although not specifically mentioned, can you rest the elbow on a knee pad?

I need the added rise for my non adjustable riser in the kneeling position. I can strap the knee pad to the gun if I have to but that seems a bit dumb when it just accomplishes the same thing.





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lhd
Joined: January 9th, 2002, 2:30 am

September 16th, 2012, 5:04 am #2

So ... does your shoulder support your arm? Do your feet support your legs, legs support your hips? Would you surmise then that your gun is supported by your feet or shoulders?

Just cause yore elbow is on yore knee don't mean yore knee is supporting the gun, or do you think it does? If you follow the knee down, it leads to shoes (most times) an shoes are supported by the ground ...... waiddaminut! The gun can't be supported by the ground or other rigid support!
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Joined: August 14th, 2004, 2:44 am

September 16th, 2012, 1:46 pm #3

Like when Larry said this about kneeling...

"I did not shoot off my knee but instead used my left knee to support my elbow since i can't get low enough to shoot off my knee in kneeling position. i then had my bum bag under my instep with my foot on the ground and my knee on the ground."


You said this...

"I don't think its really ok to shoot "Off your knee" when taking kneeling shots anymore ... your wrist and hand need to be somewhat away from the knee. More needless rules to muck stuff up."

Now, what about knee pads?



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Joined: August 15th, 2010, 8:07 pm

September 16th, 2012, 2:08 pm #4

Man, the kneeling rules have to be the most vague of all. Or maybe I'm just dense. It's usually the latter.

Although it's not SPECIFICALLY mentioned, I gather you can rest the supporting elbow on your knee? "The gun is to be supported solely by the hands, shoulder, and cheek" would seem to preclude this. Yet that's how I shoot, and see others shoot.

So taking that a step farther...

If you can rest the elbow on your knee, and knee pads have long been allowed although not specifically mentioned, can you rest the elbow on a knee pad?

I need the added rise for my non adjustable riser in the kneeling position. I can strap the knee pad to the gun if I have to but that seems a bit dumb when it just accomplishes the same thing.




i enjoy reading your often well thought out and knowledable posts. however, the lack of politeness isnt needed to make your point. it only detracts from your message.
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Joined: July 19th, 2003, 12:46 pm

September 17th, 2012, 10:18 am #5

Man, the kneeling rules have to be the most vague of all. Or maybe I'm just dense. It's usually the latter.

Although it's not SPECIFICALLY mentioned, I gather you can rest the supporting elbow on your knee? "The gun is to be supported solely by the hands, shoulder, and cheek" would seem to preclude this. Yet that's how I shoot, and see others shoot.

So taking that a step farther...

If you can rest the elbow on your knee, and knee pads have long been allowed although not specifically mentioned, can you rest the elbow on a knee pad?

I need the added rise for my non adjustable riser in the kneeling position. I can strap the knee pad to the gun if I have to but that seems a bit dumb when it just accomplishes the same thing.




I took the Harold Rushton idea and adapted that to me. I can kneel almost as good as I can shoot sitting.

Wished they didn't make all the kneelers gimmies...

Dutch



Self proclaimed shootinist sumbitch...there ever was almost!!
Its hard bein shootinst sum bitch...welp not its not.
started @ 227 compressor fills in 6/22/08
180 compressor fills and I have broke even
And aaain't it grrreaaat to be livinnn in the USA.
I never whacked a pigeon, starling, or sparrow that didn't deserve it!!!
1544 and countin....on pigeons..
starling count started 14--
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lhd
Joined: January 9th, 2002, 2:30 am

September 17th, 2012, 5:53 pm #6

Like when Larry said this about kneeling...

"I did not shoot off my knee but instead used my left knee to support my elbow since i can't get low enough to shoot off my knee in kneeling position. i then had my bum bag under my instep with my foot on the ground and my knee on the ground."


You said this...

"I don't think its really ok to shoot "Off your knee" when taking kneeling shots anymore ... your wrist and hand need to be somewhat away from the knee. More needless rules to muck stuff up."

Now, what about knee pads?


I was referring to some folks that actually rest the gun or gun hand directly on the knee, which was perfectly legal a few years ago. The wording of the rule has since changed (again), and seems fairly clear that the gun, wrist, or hand isn't supposed to be on the knee, but rather, the forearm or elbow may rest on knee or thigh.

Now what you wrote is a bit vague ... I ASSUME you mean me addressing some other Larry, but I'm not sure who. I don't rest my arm or elbow OR gun on my left knee, being left handed.

Here is the rule about kneeling:

C. KNEELING position definition: Buttocks clear of the ground, but
may rest on one foot. The bum bag or kneeling roll may be
placed under the instep of the supporting foot if desired. The
arm supporting the rifle may rest on the knee or leg. One knee
must be touching the ground. A cloth or THIN mat is allowed for
the knee on the ground. The gun is to be supported solely by the
hands, shoulder, and cheek.

For open class, there is no mention for or against kneepads, shooting jackets, or other clothing (yet Hunter class rules disallow thick pads or shooting jackets). The fact that you bought an expensive shooting jacket shows you are aware that for the most part, what is not disallowed in writing is usually allowed, and that the effective clause in the rules regarding positions and clothing is this:

"Note: Variations of the Rules for Shooting Position and Seating may
be applied at the discretion of the Match Director in recognition of
shooters desires or disabilities while ensuring that no unfair
advantage is accrued. In the event an advantage is obtained, those
shooters shall compete in a separate class for awards."


In my own matches in the past, I felt Open means Open, and if its safe, and doesn't create excessive target damage it should be ok. I think kneeling is shooting with one or both knees on the ground .... PERIOD. BUT, in AAFTA matches, well, those rules and accepted normal practice are what prevails.

Typically, when folks say a particular rule is vague, they mean it doesn't condone what they want to do. I rarely see coomplaint about the ones they LIKE, that may be equally "vague".
Last edited by lhd on September 17th, 2012, 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lhd
Joined: January 9th, 2002, 2:30 am

September 17th, 2012, 5:57 pm #7

i enjoy reading your often well thought out and knowledable posts. however, the lack of politeness isnt needed to make your point. it only detracts from your message.
We all have our crosses to bear I guess.
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lhd
Joined: January 9th, 2002, 2:30 am

September 17th, 2012, 5:59 pm #8

I took the Harold Rushton idea and adapted that to me. I can kneel almost as good as I can shoot sitting.

Wished they didn't make all the kneelers gimmies...

Dutch



Self proclaimed shootinist sumbitch...there ever was almost!!
Its hard bein shootinst sum bitch...welp not its not.
started @ 227 compressor fills in 6/22/08
180 compressor fills and I have broke even
And aaain't it grrreaaat to be livinnn in the USA.
I never whacked a pigeon, starling, or sparrow that didn't deserve it!!!
1544 and countin....on pigeons..
starling count started 14--
Are you referring to?
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Joined: October 27th, 2010, 4:43 am

September 17th, 2012, 8:12 pm #9

We all have our crosses to bear I guess.
Some are way heavier then others,,,n/t
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Joined: July 19th, 2003, 12:46 pm

September 18th, 2012, 12:50 am #10

Are you referring to?
you take have the tip of the radius and ulna bones of the right forearm rest on the knee with the palm floating in the air with the "He who shall not be named's" knee cup resting on the palm of the hand. I kneel with the left knee in the ground....the tip of my bum bag on the instep of my foot...with my toes touching the ground....very comfortable...I had to do some shuffeling and jiggling and practice to get comfortable...

Now shooting hunter...with no knee cups allowed...welp that would take alittle more figurin..

Dutch



Self proclaimed shootinist sumbitch...there ever was almost!!
Its hard bein shootinst sum bitch...welp not its not.
started @ 227 compressor fills in 6/22/08
180 compressor fills and I have broke even
And aaain't it grrreaaat to be livinnn in the USA.
I never whacked a pigeon, starling, or sparrow that didn't deserve it!!!
1544 and countin....on pigeons..
starling count started 14--
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