Holding a springer

Joined: July 20th, 2011, 6:30 pm

September 6th, 2017, 12:03 pm #1

Just another image showing the difference in group sizes due to different hold techniques.

HW77K at 30 yards with CPL pellets (boxed)

Left image -
Stock balanced in the 'V' of a Caldwell bag. Crosshairs centered with rifle at rest. Minimal force on the trigger. Rifle free to move as it fired.

Right image -
Balance point of stock resting in open palm. All else the same.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/calstanle ... ed-public/


Cal in Maine
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 4:42 am

September 6th, 2017, 2:24 pm #2

Is the V of the Caldwell bag somewhat grippy? More so than your open palm? Reason I'm asking is my best springer shooting was either with the balance point of the stock resting on my wrist or on a paint roller rest like this:



Groups seemed to degrade if the rest was something that the stock grips onto.

I have to say the challenge of shooting a springer accurately is enjoyable in a conquest sort of way. Everything has to be just right to get those ragged hole groups at 25 - 30 yards. That's why I use springers for practicing shooting form and reach for a PCP when I need to make a confident, humane shot on a pest. No warm ups and no retries.
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Joined: May 6th, 2013, 6:24 pm

September 6th, 2017, 3:30 pm #3

Just another image showing the difference in group sizes due to different hold techniques.

HW77K at 30 yards with CPL pellets (boxed)

Left image -
Stock balanced in the 'V' of a Caldwell bag. Crosshairs centered with rifle at rest. Minimal force on the trigger. Rifle free to move as it fired.

Right image -
Balance point of stock resting in open palm. All else the same.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/calstanle ... ed-public/


Cal in Maine
Here's something that can help bagged groups: teflon stock tape. I've used it a FWB124 and it really lets the gun move freely. BTW, that is a DRAMATIC difference in group size.http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/all ... tock-tapes?
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Joined: July 20th, 2005, 1:28 pm

September 6th, 2017, 4:03 pm #4

Just another image showing the difference in group sizes due to different hold techniques.

HW77K at 30 yards with CPL pellets (boxed)

Left image -
Stock balanced in the 'V' of a Caldwell bag. Crosshairs centered with rifle at rest. Minimal force on the trigger. Rifle free to move as it fired.

Right image -
Balance point of stock resting in open palm. All else the same.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/calstanle ... ed-public/


Cal in Maine
Thanks for the demonstration. Over the years, we have found this technique to tighten groups most of the time.

Of course, there are exceptions and many diehard springheads have found sandbagged forend positions with individual rifles that produce small groups. For example, with an old THeoben Gran Prix that I have owned since 1988 and know well, ragged one hole groups are possible at 50 yds by jamming the front of the trigger guard into a sand filled bag. However, the POI changes whenever I use that rifle with another hold in FT or the field. This change of POI is true for every springer that we have ever zeroed from the bench.
So, IMO, even if you have a good bench group, you are better off sighting in your springer from the palm so that it will be on target during normal shooting.
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Joined: July 20th, 2011, 6:30 pm

September 6th, 2017, 4:24 pm #5

Just another image showing the difference in group sizes due to different hold techniques.

HW77K at 30 yards with CPL pellets (boxed)

Left image -
Stock balanced in the 'V' of a Caldwell bag. Crosshairs centered with rifle at rest. Minimal force on the trigger. Rifle free to move as it fired.

Right image -
Balance point of stock resting in open palm. All else the same.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/calstanle ... ed-public/


Cal in Maine
The 'V' of the Caldwell bag is a heavy fabric - it does have some drag against the stock. The benchrest stock tape looks like it would work but I'm not crazy about adding tape to each of my springers. The roller rest looks like it might be the thing to try next. I'll build one this weekend.

I was so impressed by the difference in these two groups I just had to share what I saw. Now I have to see if my other springers (TX200, TX200HC, RWS 52) show the same kind of results.
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Joined: September 22nd, 2000, 7:58 pm

September 6th, 2017, 4:44 pm #6

Just another image showing the difference in group sizes due to different hold techniques.

HW77K at 30 yards with CPL pellets (boxed)

Left image -
Stock balanced in the 'V' of a Caldwell bag. Crosshairs centered with rifle at rest. Minimal force on the trigger. Rifle free to move as it fired.

Right image -
Balance point of stock resting in open palm. All else the same.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/calstanle ... ed-public/


Cal in Maine
One of the airgun suppliers used to sell a little Gel cushion wrapped in nylon with a rivet at one corner so you could put a cord on it.

A gel cushion mimics the hand but does not move with your heart beat.

A gel shoe insert or something similar may work.

David Enoch
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Joined: October 28th, 2003, 3:53 pm

September 6th, 2017, 4:55 pm #7

sounds like the thing they were selling.
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 4:42 am

September 7th, 2017, 3:31 am #8

The 'V' of the Caldwell bag is a heavy fabric - it does have some drag against the stock. The benchrest stock tape looks like it would work but I'm not crazy about adding tape to each of my springers. The roller rest looks like it might be the thing to try next. I'll build one this weekend.

I was so impressed by the difference in these two groups I just had to share what I saw. Now I have to see if my other springers (TX200, TX200HC, RWS 52) show the same kind of results.
Cal, let us know how it works for you. A lot of folks on GTA reported good results but some springers have a different personality it seems.

Here's a few cherry picked groups from a lowly Beeman RS2 from Walmart:





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Joined: July 9th, 2015, 1:00 pm

September 7th, 2017, 2:02 pm #9

Is the V of the Caldwell bag somewhat grippy? More so than your open palm? Reason I'm asking is my best springer shooting was either with the balance point of the stock resting on my wrist or on a paint roller rest like this:



Groups seemed to degrade if the rest was something that the stock grips onto.

I have to say the challenge of shooting a springer accurately is enjoyable in a conquest sort of way. Everything has to be just right to get those ragged hole groups at 25 - 30 yards. That's why I use springers for practicing shooting form and reach for a PCP when I need to make a confident, humane shot on a pest. No warm ups and no retries.
a support can be carried through the woods on a hunt or on the field target lanes it's not very useful for testing purposes. What good does it do to shoot tight groups "from a block of concrete" (or whatever) yet still inaccurate for "normal" shooting? Since I don't want to be bothered with the hassles or expense of buyin'/pumpin' air, countin' shots, a "life support system" on a cart (or in the garage) required by the "pump up guns" my preferred option is a self contained springer. There is a need for a well tuned springer and lot of practice to shoot my HW "bouncin' springers" accurately.

Anywhoo.....decades ago my brother tested the accuracy of his .177 R9 using a shot bags and found he was shooting patterns at 30 yards instead of groups. Then he supported the gun on his shoulder and placed an open palm between the stock forearm and shot bag and shot really tight groups. Here are a couple 3 shot 50 yard groups he shot from the bench (both at the same sitting) with gun rested on shoulder and lightly placed on his left palm which was supported by the shot bag......


I do almost all my shooting from "bucket and sticks" because that's how I set up my gun/scope, "still hunt" squirrels, shoot hunter class field target matches and general plinking. In the woods if stalkin' instead of restin' I make sure that the gun is supported on the shoulder and stock forearm in the exact same position as when the gun was set up with "bucket and sticks". When stalking squirrels (a lot of fun by the way) I try to keep all shots within my 30 yard zero distance and only stretch the distance to about 40 yards under perfect field conditions. Anywhoo......using "bucket and sticks" I occasionally shoot some pretty good "dumb luck" groups on my outdoor practice lane......





My choice is simply to use a gun supporting method that can also be used in the woods so a lot of practice is done to hone a consistent shooting form and shooting some 50 or 100 bull targets at one sitting is good practice.
Concerning the "first shot being on", I do admit that I always take a couple shots before starting a squirrel hunt to settle things in, however I recently shot this target from "bucket and sticks" two days apart without any warmup shots the second day and here is the result.........

Certainly "minute of squirrel head" accuracy out to 30 yards or so since I was shooting 1/4" diameter bulls.
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Joined: March 26th, 2014, 5:56 am

September 8th, 2017, 4:08 am #10

Just another image showing the difference in group sizes due to different hold techniques.

HW77K at 30 yards with CPL pellets (boxed)

Left image -
Stock balanced in the 'V' of a Caldwell bag. Crosshairs centered with rifle at rest. Minimal force on the trigger. Rifle free to move as it fired.

Right image -
Balance point of stock resting in open palm. All else the same.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/calstanle ... ed-public/


Cal in Maine
Very impressive. Thanks for sharing and I will keep this in the file for later use.
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