High $$$ FT rigs.... why?

High $$$ FT rigs.... why?

Joined: August 14th, 2004, 2:44 am

October 30th, 2010, 11:13 pm #1

I did the typical progression thru FT.... QB78, R9, 410, USFT....

All in the quest for accuracy, and, well.... winning. I have the first part down.


Every day it seems, I see posts about (a custom tuner's) Marauders that shoot 1/2" at 50 yards. There's a springer on the classifieds now that "if the shooter does his part,it will shoot 5 shot groups at 32 yards that you can cover with a pencil eraser"

Jonny P., why are you wasting your money? HW's, TX's.... jump on it.

PCP guys... for $500 you can outshoot your $3000 rig.

With the moderation on the boards, maybe some way to protect the virgins?


BS
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Joined: March 2nd, 2007, 6:18 am

October 31st, 2010, 3:30 am #2

<p>"He with the most toys wins". Comes down to what one can afford,  is willing to spend, competitive spirit, ego, pride of ownership, interest in the sport. You can catch bass from an innertube. so why do they sell $40,000 Trackers with $25,000 motors, $5K fishfinders, etc. Because there's a market for them. It's also why PCP is often called "open class". " If you can't afford to pay, you can't afford to play". There's a ton of sayings like these.</p><p>With the very small number of participants in our fine game, it's best to go with what there is out there. Some folks think they can't compete against $$$, so they fall into the scheme, when maybe all they really need to compete against is themselves and their own ability. There's a lot of shooters with high end guns who shoot midpack, but is the enjoyment they receive from what they do enough to keep them happy?. The really good, dedicated shooters become great shooters with great equipment, so it can help, but one must be able to do the job.</p><p>One could go over every conceivable scenario in their own head, but it really boils down to everyones' personal preference. JMO</p><p>RicG</p>
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Joined: March 14th, 2009, 9:32 pm

October 31st, 2010, 11:27 am #3

I did the typical progression thru FT.... QB78, R9, 410, USFT....

All in the quest for accuracy, and, well.... winning. I have the first part down.


Every day it seems, I see posts about (a custom tuner's) Marauders that shoot 1/2" at 50 yards. There's a springer on the classifieds now that "if the shooter does his part,it will shoot 5 shot groups at 32 yards that you can cover with a pencil eraser"

Jonny P., why are you wasting your money? HW's, TX's.... jump on it.

PCP guys... for $500 you can outshoot your $3000 rig.

With the moderation on the boards, maybe some way to protect the virgins?


BS
Sorry to say But With a few well known exceptions who actually post thier groups and I can beleive the distances I do not beleive more then half of what I read regarding accuracy from most posters here. I Have gone the route of expensive to ultra expensive custom built FT rigs. I have found most are capable of "AVERAGE" 3/4 to 1" groups at 55 yds. MAny will throw one out every 3 groups. THe word being "AVERAGE". It's easy for someone to come on here and post a pic of a 1/2" group their rifle produced with them behind the trigger . It is another thing to shoot 100 consecutive rounds in a 1/2" and have everyone appear within the 1/2" "NOW THAT"S THE ACCURACY I WANT" in "NO WIND" conditions. That is very very very very difficult to find and when you find that rifle and ammo combo do not let it go. I was speaking with Johnny Ingram at the NAts and telling him how Impressed I was with Harold Rushton's performance and he said " ME TOO, there you have the perfect example of the perfect shooter who has found his rifle and setup. Isn't he incredable?".
Many of my shooting buddies have $4300+ rigs who can not execute the 100 shot 1/2" test. It is not that they are good enough shots because they can do it with a friends rig and not their own!

I could be wrong but these "ALL THE TIME 1/2" RIGS ARE RARE" and I know I will get bashed for this but I would love to have all the posters on the yellow who have claimed incredible rigs lined up at a shooting range on a calm day, hand them 100 pellets weighed and sorted of their choice and have them shoot 1/2" ctc targets at 55yds. If each one put $1000 up for the bet I would feel safe saying I would leave that range with a lot more $ then what I came with and a bunch of excuses.
Every shooter I know who has one of these rigs does not part with it. DOn't get me wrong I am not saying there is not an inexpensive rig that can achieve this but I feel that is rare and limited to the top 10 percentile. I know of a couple exceptions but they are custom guns on inexpensive platforms and not the out of box guns you can purchase.
I write this because so many shooters are frustrated over their rifles accuracy and when they read the yellow they beleive almost every one out there with rifles from $500 to $5000 can do this. SO this is written to tell you I found it is not easy to find that 1/2" consistant rifle and I was frustrated like most until I found it and the BS that is written here addded to that frustration! AIr rifles are not powder burners and from my expierence it's alot easier to find consistency in powder burners then in air rifles. I have spoken with one of the top 3 gun smiths in the country and he told me he went thru 5 barrels on a brand new $5000 rig to get the rifle to shoot 1/2" goups and it is still squirrly in the wind. What does that tell you about what leaves the factories?
I would love to know who agrees and disagrees with this logic or is it I was unlucky with rifles for a long time?
Last edited by deer16pt on October 31st, 2010, 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 12th, 2006, 7:56 am

October 31st, 2010, 12:35 pm #4

I did the typical progression thru FT.... QB78, R9, 410, USFT....

All in the quest for accuracy, and, well.... winning. I have the first part down.


Every day it seems, I see posts about (a custom tuner's) Marauders that shoot 1/2" at 50 yards. There's a springer on the classifieds now that "if the shooter does his part,it will shoot 5 shot groups at 32 yards that you can cover with a pencil eraser"

Jonny P., why are you wasting your money? HW's, TX's.... jump on it.

PCP guys... for $500 you can outshoot your $3000 rig.

With the moderation on the boards, maybe some way to protect the virgins?


BS
Some folks get caught up in the equipment game very quickly without developing their shooting technique. The top shooters can shoot a consistent 3/4" or smaller groups at 50-55 yards from the bumbag. This requires many hours of practice learning how to judge the wind. Some shooter like to eliminate the equipment factor before developing their shooting technique, hence the high dollar equipment. I doubt seriously most shooters can consistently out shoot a well tuned entry level pcp or a TX-200 in terms of accuracy. A fellow HFT shooter here in Texas placed 2nd in the Nationals last year using a QB-79 on HPA and 12x Simmons scope! He bested dozens of shooters with much more expensive equipment including at least half of the PCP class shooters. The main factor in determining accuracy is IMHO the shooter's technique and skill.
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Joined: October 19th, 2005, 12:48 am

October 31st, 2010, 12:48 pm #5

Sorry to say But With a few well known exceptions who actually post thier groups and I can beleive the distances I do not beleive more then half of what I read regarding accuracy from most posters here. I Have gone the route of expensive to ultra expensive custom built FT rigs. I have found most are capable of "AVERAGE" 3/4 to 1" groups at 55 yds. MAny will throw one out every 3 groups. THe word being "AVERAGE". It's easy for someone to come on here and post a pic of a 1/2" group their rifle produced with them behind the trigger . It is another thing to shoot 100 consecutive rounds in a 1/2" and have everyone appear within the 1/2" "NOW THAT"S THE ACCURACY I WANT" in "NO WIND" conditions. That is very very very very difficult to find and when you find that rifle and ammo combo do not let it go. I was speaking with Johnny Ingram at the NAts and telling him how Impressed I was with Harold Rushton's performance and he said " ME TOO, there you have the perfect example of the perfect shooter who has found his rifle and setup. Isn't he incredable?".
Many of my shooting buddies have $4300+ rigs who can not execute the 100 shot 1/2" test. It is not that they are good enough shots because they can do it with a friends rig and not their own!

I could be wrong but these "ALL THE TIME 1/2" RIGS ARE RARE" and I know I will get bashed for this but I would love to have all the posters on the yellow who have claimed incredible rigs lined up at a shooting range on a calm day, hand them 100 pellets weighed and sorted of their choice and have them shoot 1/2" ctc targets at 55yds. If each one put $1000 up for the bet I would feel safe saying I would leave that range with a lot more $ then what I came with and a bunch of excuses.
Every shooter I know who has one of these rigs does not part with it. DOn't get me wrong I am not saying there is not an inexpensive rig that can achieve this but I feel that is rare and limited to the top 10 percentile. I know of a couple exceptions but they are custom guns on inexpensive platforms and not the out of box guns you can purchase.
I write this because so many shooters are frustrated over their rifles accuracy and when they read the yellow they beleive almost every one out there with rifles from $500 to $5000 can do this. SO this is written to tell you I found it is not easy to find that 1/2" consistant rifle and I was frustrated like most until I found it and the BS that is written here addded to that frustration! AIr rifles are not powder burners and from my expierence it's alot easier to find consistency in powder burners then in air rifles. I have spoken with one of the top 3 gun smiths in the country and he told me he went thru 5 barrels on a brand new $5000 rig to get the rifle to shoot 1/2" goups and it is still squirrly in the wind. What does that tell you about what leaves the factories?
I would love to know who agrees and disagrees with this logic or is it I was unlucky with rifles for a long time?
I agree with you John and myself I think you would be hard to find a trigger man that could make 100 perfect shots in a row. That maybe harder to find than the gun.
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Joined: March 14th, 2009, 9:32 pm

October 31st, 2010, 1:46 pm #6

Some folks get caught up in the equipment game very quickly without developing their shooting technique. The top shooters can shoot a consistent 3/4" or smaller groups at 50-55 yards from the bumbag. This requires many hours of practice learning how to judge the wind. Some shooter like to eliminate the equipment factor before developing their shooting technique, hence the high dollar equipment. I doubt seriously most shooters can consistently out shoot a well tuned entry level pcp or a TX-200 in terms of accuracy. A fellow HFT shooter here in Texas placed 2nd in the Nationals last year using a QB-79 on HPA and 12x Simmons scope! He bested dozens of shooters with much more expensive equipment including at least half of the PCP class shooters. The main factor in determining accuracy is IMHO the shooter's technique and skill.
there is no short cut to good shooting technique and that includes correct practice. In my above post I should have stated I was referring to accomplished shooters. A great gun will not make a poor shooter a marksman but on the reverse an inconsistant rifle will also not make a great shooter shoot to his capabilites or compete on an equal playing field with some of his competition. It's not about the $ it's about the shooter and what is attributed to their consistancy. I know of very good shooters who had to sell their $5000 rifle beacuse it just would not shoot consistantly. Ultimately they found what they needed and are now happy with the combination. But it can be frustrating and some times costly.
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Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

October 31st, 2010, 1:47 pm #7

I agree with you John and myself I think you would be hard to find a trigger man that could make 100 perfect shots in a row. That maybe harder to find than the gun.
Open Range,'especially FT Style at 50 - 55yds. With a sub20fpe FT Rifle, they need to be training for next year's US World
Benchrest Teams!!! All they need is 25 Good Shots at 25meters, Easy Peasy for someone with those skills! 100shots in a row at 55yds. al under 1/2" is
Gonna take great equipment and a great shooter!

Regards,

Tony

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Joined: May 25th, 2008, 4:38 am

October 31st, 2010, 1:54 pm #8

I did the typical progression thru FT.... QB78, R9, 410, USFT....

All in the quest for accuracy, and, well.... winning. I have the first part down.


Every day it seems, I see posts about (a custom tuner's) Marauders that shoot 1/2" at 50 yards. There's a springer on the classifieds now that "if the shooter does his part,it will shoot 5 shot groups at 32 yards that you can cover with a pencil eraser"

Jonny P., why are you wasting your money? HW's, TX's.... jump on it.

PCP guys... for $500 you can outshoot your $3000 rig.

With the moderation on the boards, maybe some way to protect the virgins?


BS
There is 8-10 of us that shoot 50 yard air rifle benchrest monthly in Temecula with a mix of USFT match rifles and sporting rifles.

At our last match,the entire group shot an average total agregate of .610" in the wind. (90 shots total on 3 targets).

Oh,...did I mention one shooter used a springer..??

NRA A36 targets,btw

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Last edited by richwoods on October 31st, 2010, 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 14th, 2004, 2:44 am

October 31st, 2010, 1:59 pm #9

Well, the example above with the pencil eraser would be .073 ctc at the stated 32 yards, or .114 at 50 yards if I did my math right. .00363 degrees, with a 14 fpe springer.


Better practice up.

Last edited by Bikerscum on October 31st, 2010, 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 14th, 2009, 9:32 pm

October 31st, 2010, 2:03 pm #10

Open Range,'especially FT Style at 50 - 55yds. With a sub20fpe FT Rifle, they need to be training for next year's US World
Benchrest Teams!!! All they need is 25 Good Shots at 25meters, Easy Peasy for someone with those skills! 100shots in a row at 55yds. al under 1/2" is
Gonna take great equipment and a great shooter!

Regards,

Tony
First 1/2" ctc is far from "under 1/2" and I do mean far! Second. Some individuals actually shoot their FT rifles better from their harness then the bench. But for me if I search for tight groups repeatedly I must go to the bench with bags.
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