"Billet" ... some airgun makers use it ...

"Billet" ... some airgun makers use it ...

Joined: December 1st, 2001, 6:03 pm

August 24th, 2005, 1:50 pm #1

I'll start off with a link to some pictures - if you wish to see them. On the page "Man Working" ... you'll note a chunk of solid steel - 2 1/2" by 1/1/2" by about 8" long. It weighs about NINE pounds. Alittle farther down the same page, you'll see pics of the same pc. (after every surface of the block was machined within an inch of it's life) ... weighing about 3 1/2 pounds. That was fashioned from what the vast portion of machinists would call BILLET. http://www.glbarnes.com/man.html

Concentrating on the surface texture of the original chunk of material is splitting hairs. Any decent part is machined, turned, sanded, polished ... in other words ... "finished" before being put into use. Who argues over if a gun stock was made from a rough sawn plank or a plank that had been thru a planer first? The whole thing is sawn, machined, ground, sanded, and finished to make the final product.

For pics of the final finished billet reciever - please look at http://www.glbarnes.com/prairie.html You will see the rough (yeah it was rough) chunk of steel transformed into a highly complex machined part. About six pounds of steel was machined off of the original billet to end up with this part. Down the page alittle (on the man working page), you'll note a front barrel clamp which also contains the mortise socket for the forestock tenon. That aluminum came into my shop in oversized bar stock - relatively smooth outside. Can you see the material removed and the machining operations required to make the completed stock from the initial "billet" of material I clamped into the milling machine?

This discussion of billet vs. bar stock has much to do with the relative size of the completed item vs. the material from which it was fashioned. If a part can be put into service by simply sawing off a length of material and drilling a couple of holes for example ... it's traditionally said to be made from bar stock. If quite a lot of machining is required to make the part (if significant material is removed) it's traditionally said to be made from billet. My nine pound chunk of solid steel might be bar stock (in a shipyard) but it's billet when two thirds of it's mass is going to be machined away prior to finishing an airgun receiver. If my barrel clamp was a thin flat section of material with two holes in it, I'd call it bar stock.

I know alittle bit about billets. The American Bladesmith's Society certified me as a Master Bladesmith in 1983. I've forge welded quite a pile of damascus steel billets and have the achy shoulders to prove it. Once I forge welded a billet of steel - I often used my power hammer and/or rolling mill to shape it into rough bars. Now - they had a rough surface texture and rounded edges. Guess they were still billet in bar length. A session on the surface grinder turned them into precision ground bar stock. It was the same material going thru different phases of finishing. Some blades were forged to shape (hand hammered) right from a chunk stretched off the billet of forge welded damascus. For pocket knife parts, I transformed material into the precision ground bars required to make a precision product.

Finally ... "Cool" was a word refering to the relative state of temperature difference between two objects until the 1950's. In the 1970's, you took note of the subject when you heard the word "Hot" (girl or bowl of soup?). When "billet" is being nearly universally used today to describe an extreme machining requirement to reach the final completed part, I don't see the point in arguing the terminology - unless you don't do much machining from "billet". Personally, I make parts from billet (BOTH uses of the word). I machine objects from 9 pound chucks of steel, and I machine objects from oversized sections of aluminum which arrives at my shop in managable forms. Some start with a smooth outside surface ... until I machine it off. Mostly we use the preshaped forms (square - rectangle - round) to aid in clamping and aligning the materials during initial machining operations. I've never seen one of those custom wheel machines have a mis-shapen, rough, clump of aluminum clamped to it's table to start. All I've ever noted was a gleeming, precision turned, flat and true initial billet of material going into the booth.

Thanks,

Gary

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Joined: May 10th, 2004, 4:44 pm

August 24th, 2005, 2:11 pm #2

My understanding of the term "billet" from a sales perspective is meant to imply a lot of machine work went into producing the finished product, instead of the cheaper and easier methods of stamping or casting. Machining typically produces more uniform parts, tighter tolerances, than casting or stamping, therefore a part made from "billet" would be better from a precision standpoint. Machining usually cost more than the other methods, so a good sales point to help justify the cost of the finished product is to tell the potential buyer which parts are machined, hence the common use of the word "billet."
I recently purchased an IZH46M and was quite surprised by the amount of machine work that went into producing such an inexpensive gun. Most of the parts are either stamped or cast, but the cast parts still required a fair amount of machining. I guess skilled labor in Russia is cheap. I did notice some of the "machining" was done with a grinder!
I think it is a good word and it is justified to use it, as long as you know what it means.

Later,
John Lowery
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Joined: January 11th, 2003, 3:16 am

August 24th, 2005, 2:18 pm #3

I'll start off with a link to some pictures - if you wish to see them. On the page "Man Working" ... you'll note a chunk of solid steel - 2 1/2" by 1/1/2" by about 8" long. It weighs about NINE pounds. Alittle farther down the same page, you'll see pics of the same pc. (after every surface of the block was machined within an inch of it's life) ... weighing about 3 1/2 pounds. That was fashioned from what the vast portion of machinists would call BILLET. http://www.glbarnes.com/man.html

Concentrating on the surface texture of the original chunk of material is splitting hairs. Any decent part is machined, turned, sanded, polished ... in other words ... "finished" before being put into use. Who argues over if a gun stock was made from a rough sawn plank or a plank that had been thru a planer first? The whole thing is sawn, machined, ground, sanded, and finished to make the final product.

For pics of the final finished billet reciever - please look at http://www.glbarnes.com/prairie.html You will see the rough (yeah it was rough) chunk of steel transformed into a highly complex machined part. About six pounds of steel was machined off of the original billet to end up with this part. Down the page alittle (on the man working page), you'll note a front barrel clamp which also contains the mortise socket for the forestock tenon. That aluminum came into my shop in oversized bar stock - relatively smooth outside. Can you see the material removed and the machining operations required to make the completed stock from the initial "billet" of material I clamped into the milling machine?

This discussion of billet vs. bar stock has much to do with the relative size of the completed item vs. the material from which it was fashioned. If a part can be put into service by simply sawing off a length of material and drilling a couple of holes for example ... it's traditionally said to be made from bar stock. If quite a lot of machining is required to make the part (if significant material is removed) it's traditionally said to be made from billet. My nine pound chunk of solid steel might be bar stock (in a shipyard) but it's billet when two thirds of it's mass is going to be machined away prior to finishing an airgun receiver. If my barrel clamp was a thin flat section of material with two holes in it, I'd call it bar stock.

I know alittle bit about billets. The American Bladesmith's Society certified me as a Master Bladesmith in 1983. I've forge welded quite a pile of damascus steel billets and have the achy shoulders to prove it. Once I forge welded a billet of steel - I often used my power hammer and/or rolling mill to shape it into rough bars. Now - they had a rough surface texture and rounded edges. Guess they were still billet in bar length. A session on the surface grinder turned them into precision ground bar stock. It was the same material going thru different phases of finishing. Some blades were forged to shape (hand hammered) right from a chunk stretched off the billet of forge welded damascus. For pocket knife parts, I transformed material into the precision ground bars required to make a precision product.

Finally ... "Cool" was a word refering to the relative state of temperature difference between two objects until the 1950's. In the 1970's, you took note of the subject when you heard the word "Hot" (girl or bowl of soup?). When "billet" is being nearly universally used today to describe an extreme machining requirement to reach the final completed part, I don't see the point in arguing the terminology - unless you don't do much machining from "billet". Personally, I make parts from billet (BOTH uses of the word). I machine objects from 9 pound chucks of steel, and I machine objects from oversized sections of aluminum which arrives at my shop in managable forms. Some start with a smooth outside surface ... until I machine it off. Mostly we use the preshaped forms (square - rectangle - round) to aid in clamping and aligning the materials during initial machining operations. I've never seen one of those custom wheel machines have a mis-shapen, rough, clump of aluminum clamped to it's table to start. All I've ever noted was a gleeming, precision turned, flat and true initial billet of material going into the booth.

Thanks,

Gary
for putting the previous "hairsplitting" in perspective.

Charter member

Noisy Bridge Rod and Gun Club
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Joined: August 22nd, 2001, 3:27 pm

August 24th, 2005, 2:25 pm #4

I'll start off with a link to some pictures - if you wish to see them. On the page "Man Working" ... you'll note a chunk of solid steel - 2 1/2" by 1/1/2" by about 8" long. It weighs about NINE pounds. Alittle farther down the same page, you'll see pics of the same pc. (after every surface of the block was machined within an inch of it's life) ... weighing about 3 1/2 pounds. That was fashioned from what the vast portion of machinists would call BILLET. http://www.glbarnes.com/man.html

Concentrating on the surface texture of the original chunk of material is splitting hairs. Any decent part is machined, turned, sanded, polished ... in other words ... "finished" before being put into use. Who argues over if a gun stock was made from a rough sawn plank or a plank that had been thru a planer first? The whole thing is sawn, machined, ground, sanded, and finished to make the final product.

For pics of the final finished billet reciever - please look at http://www.glbarnes.com/prairie.html You will see the rough (yeah it was rough) chunk of steel transformed into a highly complex machined part. About six pounds of steel was machined off of the original billet to end up with this part. Down the page alittle (on the man working page), you'll note a front barrel clamp which also contains the mortise socket for the forestock tenon. That aluminum came into my shop in oversized bar stock - relatively smooth outside. Can you see the material removed and the machining operations required to make the completed stock from the initial "billet" of material I clamped into the milling machine?

This discussion of billet vs. bar stock has much to do with the relative size of the completed item vs. the material from which it was fashioned. If a part can be put into service by simply sawing off a length of material and drilling a couple of holes for example ... it's traditionally said to be made from bar stock. If quite a lot of machining is required to make the part (if significant material is removed) it's traditionally said to be made from billet. My nine pound chunk of solid steel might be bar stock (in a shipyard) but it's billet when two thirds of it's mass is going to be machined away prior to finishing an airgun receiver. If my barrel clamp was a thin flat section of material with two holes in it, I'd call it bar stock.

I know alittle bit about billets. The American Bladesmith's Society certified me as a Master Bladesmith in 1983. I've forge welded quite a pile of damascus steel billets and have the achy shoulders to prove it. Once I forge welded a billet of steel - I often used my power hammer and/or rolling mill to shape it into rough bars. Now - they had a rough surface texture and rounded edges. Guess they were still billet in bar length. A session on the surface grinder turned them into precision ground bar stock. It was the same material going thru different phases of finishing. Some blades were forged to shape (hand hammered) right from a chunk stretched off the billet of forge welded damascus. For pocket knife parts, I transformed material into the precision ground bars required to make a precision product.

Finally ... "Cool" was a word refering to the relative state of temperature difference between two objects until the 1950's. In the 1970's, you took note of the subject when you heard the word "Hot" (girl or bowl of soup?). When "billet" is being nearly universally used today to describe an extreme machining requirement to reach the final completed part, I don't see the point in arguing the terminology - unless you don't do much machining from "billet". Personally, I make parts from billet (BOTH uses of the word). I machine objects from 9 pound chucks of steel, and I machine objects from oversized sections of aluminum which arrives at my shop in managable forms. Some start with a smooth outside surface ... until I machine it off. Mostly we use the preshaped forms (square - rectangle - round) to aid in clamping and aligning the materials during initial machining operations. I've never seen one of those custom wheel machines have a mis-shapen, rough, clump of aluminum clamped to it's table to start. All I've ever noted was a gleeming, precision turned, flat and true initial billet of material going into the booth.

Thanks,

Gary
forged, forged being billet, not cast. james
Last edited by jpsaxnc on August 24th, 2005, 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 10th, 2002, 1:47 am

August 24th, 2005, 4:10 pm #5

My understanding of the term "billet" from a sales perspective is meant to imply a lot of machine work went into producing the finished product, instead of the cheaper and easier methods of stamping or casting. Machining typically produces more uniform parts, tighter tolerances, than casting or stamping, therefore a part made from "billet" would be better from a precision standpoint. Machining usually cost more than the other methods, so a good sales point to help justify the cost of the finished product is to tell the potential buyer which parts are machined, hence the common use of the word "billet."
I recently purchased an IZH46M and was quite surprised by the amount of machine work that went into producing such an inexpensive gun. Most of the parts are either stamped or cast, but the cast parts still required a fair amount of machining. I guess skilled labor in Russia is cheap. I did notice some of the "machining" was done with a grinder!
I think it is a good word and it is justified to use it, as long as you know what it means.

Later,
John Lowery
Some of the most accurate surfaces have to be 'ground' as a cutting (like a lathe/mill use) tool cannot give as close a tolerance or finish. Almost all machine shops 'grind' something. Precision surface grinding is done to the surfaces of most machine tools (like bed of lathe or table on mill) to make them give the precise run out required. Simple milled or turned process won't give same results.

But this whole deal/discussion/debate is a falicy that I see so often in the process control industry. We fondly call it "alphabet soup". It is when more time is spent on debating terminology rather than the resulting impact. Most typically the debate/argument is between vendors not end users (airgun shooters are the 'end-user' here).

Billet is a fine example. IMHO it really comes under the term of who cares.

If the resulting product is top quality who cares if it started as a billet or not?

Top quality metal products are produced in a multitude a ways. Steel is a amazing material in that you can get many different properties from the same alloy. Different temper, heat treat, suface hardness, ductility, thoughness can all be had from same stuff. This is far far more important than if it is or is not a "billet".

Wendy's uses square patties, Whataburger uses round patties. Who cares as what you want is the best hamburger. Your cardiologist doesn't like either.

Pete a.
Last edited by 177fan on August 24th, 2005, 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DAQ
Joined: June 20th, 2003, 4:39 am

August 24th, 2005, 4:11 pm #6

for putting the previous "hairsplitting" in perspective.

Charter member

Noisy Bridge Rod and Gun Club
It's not hair splitting, it's the definitions of the steel industry: American Iron & Steel Institute, Crucible Steel Corp., American Society of Metals & ASTM.

http://www.metal-mart.com/Dictionary/dictletb.htm#I25

The misuse of the term "billet", as Tim said, is more about sales & marketing than its true definition.
This was an informational post, it had nothing to do with sales on my part. This is another case of you not being able to present a reasoned discussion, but just another chance to snipe, showing your animosity towards me.
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DAQ
Joined: June 20th, 2003, 4:39 am

August 24th, 2005, 4:19 pm #7

I'll start off with a link to some pictures - if you wish to see them. On the page "Man Working" ... you'll note a chunk of solid steel - 2 1/2" by 1/1/2" by about 8" long. It weighs about NINE pounds. Alittle farther down the same page, you'll see pics of the same pc. (after every surface of the block was machined within an inch of it's life) ... weighing about 3 1/2 pounds. That was fashioned from what the vast portion of machinists would call BILLET. http://www.glbarnes.com/man.html

Concentrating on the surface texture of the original chunk of material is splitting hairs. Any decent part is machined, turned, sanded, polished ... in other words ... "finished" before being put into use. Who argues over if a gun stock was made from a rough sawn plank or a plank that had been thru a planer first? The whole thing is sawn, machined, ground, sanded, and finished to make the final product.

For pics of the final finished billet reciever - please look at http://www.glbarnes.com/prairie.html You will see the rough (yeah it was rough) chunk of steel transformed into a highly complex machined part. About six pounds of steel was machined off of the original billet to end up with this part. Down the page alittle (on the man working page), you'll note a front barrel clamp which also contains the mortise socket for the forestock tenon. That aluminum came into my shop in oversized bar stock - relatively smooth outside. Can you see the material removed and the machining operations required to make the completed stock from the initial "billet" of material I clamped into the milling machine?

This discussion of billet vs. bar stock has much to do with the relative size of the completed item vs. the material from which it was fashioned. If a part can be put into service by simply sawing off a length of material and drilling a couple of holes for example ... it's traditionally said to be made from bar stock. If quite a lot of machining is required to make the part (if significant material is removed) it's traditionally said to be made from billet. My nine pound chunk of solid steel might be bar stock (in a shipyard) but it's billet when two thirds of it's mass is going to be machined away prior to finishing an airgun receiver. If my barrel clamp was a thin flat section of material with two holes in it, I'd call it bar stock.

I know alittle bit about billets. The American Bladesmith's Society certified me as a Master Bladesmith in 1983. I've forge welded quite a pile of damascus steel billets and have the achy shoulders to prove it. Once I forge welded a billet of steel - I often used my power hammer and/or rolling mill to shape it into rough bars. Now - they had a rough surface texture and rounded edges. Guess they were still billet in bar length. A session on the surface grinder turned them into precision ground bar stock. It was the same material going thru different phases of finishing. Some blades were forged to shape (hand hammered) right from a chunk stretched off the billet of forge welded damascus. For pocket knife parts, I transformed material into the precision ground bars required to make a precision product.

Finally ... "Cool" was a word refering to the relative state of temperature difference between two objects until the 1950's. In the 1970's, you took note of the subject when you heard the word "Hot" (girl or bowl of soup?). When "billet" is being nearly universally used today to describe an extreme machining requirement to reach the final completed part, I don't see the point in arguing the terminology - unless you don't do much machining from "billet". Personally, I make parts from billet (BOTH uses of the word). I machine objects from 9 pound chucks of steel, and I machine objects from oversized sections of aluminum which arrives at my shop in managable forms. Some start with a smooth outside surface ... until I machine it off. Mostly we use the preshaped forms (square - rectangle - round) to aid in clamping and aligning the materials during initial machining operations. I've never seen one of those custom wheel machines have a mis-shapen, rough, clump of aluminum clamped to it's table to start. All I've ever noted was a gleeming, precision turned, flat and true initial billet of material going into the booth.

Thanks,

Gary
I'm going to keep this only on a definition of a billet and not getting sidetracked into the nonsense side of the discussion. Call your local steel supplier and ask them for a billet in the sizes of steel that you would use for an airgun.

The definition of a billet is well defined by the steel industry, by such entities as ASTM, ASME, AISI, American Society of Metals & SAE. As Tim summerized the term "billet" is misused for sale and marketing purposes.
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Joined: May 10th, 2004, 4:44 pm

August 24th, 2005, 4:20 pm #8

Some of the most accurate surfaces have to be 'ground' as a cutting (like a lathe/mill use) tool cannot give as close a tolerance or finish. Almost all machine shops 'grind' something. Precision surface grinding is done to the surfaces of most machine tools (like bed of lathe or table on mill) to make them give the precise run out required. Simple milled or turned process won't give same results.

But this whole deal/discussion/debate is a falicy that I see so often in the process control industry. We fondly call it "alphabet soup". It is when more time is spent on debating terminology rather than the resulting impact. Most typically the debate/argument is between vendors not end users (airgun shooters are the 'end-user' here).

Billet is a fine example. IMHO it really comes under the term of who cares.

If the resulting product is top quality who cares if it started as a billet or not?

Top quality metal products are produced in a multitude a ways. Steel is a amazing material in that you can get many different properties from the same alloy. Different temper, heat treat, suface hardness, ductility, thoughness can all be had from same stuff. This is far far more important than if it is or is not a "billet".

Wendy's uses square patties, Whataburger uses round patties. Who cares as what you want is the best hamburger. Your cardiologist doesn't like either.

Pete a.
I used to work in a machine shop and one of the coolest machines was the grinder! It had a giant electro-magnetic bed that would slide back and forth under the grinding wheel and index with each cycle, very nice. The Izzy looks like it was done with a hand grinder! It does not affect anything, but the part was not squared when a chamfer was cut, so the lines are not parallel.
Another nice grinder was the one that mounted on a lathe. It has been over twenty years since I was in a machine shop, so the "alphabet soup" names of the equipment elude me, LOL.

Later,
John Lowery
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Joined: August 3rd, 2003, 3:55 pm

August 24th, 2005, 5:16 pm #9

I'm going to keep this only on a definition of a billet and not getting sidetracked into the nonsense side of the discussion. Call your local steel supplier and ask them for a billet in the sizes of steel that you would use for an airgun.

The definition of a billet is well defined by the steel industry, by such entities as ASTM, ASME, AISI, American Society of Metals & SAE. As Tim summerized the term "billet" is misused for sale and marketing purposes.
A bit of OT on surface grinders is that they are not at all used as much nowadays as they used too be. The modern CNC machines, high speed machineing and regular, will make surface finishes so good they arent needed as much. The reason is that we can use MUCH higher speeds and feeds than was possible with old machines.



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Joined: December 1st, 2001, 6:03 pm

August 24th, 2005, 5:25 pm #10

I'll start off with a link to some pictures - if you wish to see them. On the page "Man Working" ... you'll note a chunk of solid steel - 2 1/2" by 1/1/2" by about 8" long. It weighs about NINE pounds. Alittle farther down the same page, you'll see pics of the same pc. (after every surface of the block was machined within an inch of it's life) ... weighing about 3 1/2 pounds. That was fashioned from what the vast portion of machinists would call BILLET. http://www.glbarnes.com/man.html

Concentrating on the surface texture of the original chunk of material is splitting hairs. Any decent part is machined, turned, sanded, polished ... in other words ... "finished" before being put into use. Who argues over if a gun stock was made from a rough sawn plank or a plank that had been thru a planer first? The whole thing is sawn, machined, ground, sanded, and finished to make the final product.

For pics of the final finished billet reciever - please look at http://www.glbarnes.com/prairie.html You will see the rough (yeah it was rough) chunk of steel transformed into a highly complex machined part. About six pounds of steel was machined off of the original billet to end up with this part. Down the page alittle (on the man working page), you'll note a front barrel clamp which also contains the mortise socket for the forestock tenon. That aluminum came into my shop in oversized bar stock - relatively smooth outside. Can you see the material removed and the machining operations required to make the completed stock from the initial "billet" of material I clamped into the milling machine?

This discussion of billet vs. bar stock has much to do with the relative size of the completed item vs. the material from which it was fashioned. If a part can be put into service by simply sawing off a length of material and drilling a couple of holes for example ... it's traditionally said to be made from bar stock. If quite a lot of machining is required to make the part (if significant material is removed) it's traditionally said to be made from billet. My nine pound chunk of solid steel might be bar stock (in a shipyard) but it's billet when two thirds of it's mass is going to be machined away prior to finishing an airgun receiver. If my barrel clamp was a thin flat section of material with two holes in it, I'd call it bar stock.

I know alittle bit about billets. The American Bladesmith's Society certified me as a Master Bladesmith in 1983. I've forge welded quite a pile of damascus steel billets and have the achy shoulders to prove it. Once I forge welded a billet of steel - I often used my power hammer and/or rolling mill to shape it into rough bars. Now - they had a rough surface texture and rounded edges. Guess they were still billet in bar length. A session on the surface grinder turned them into precision ground bar stock. It was the same material going thru different phases of finishing. Some blades were forged to shape (hand hammered) right from a chunk stretched off the billet of forge welded damascus. For pocket knife parts, I transformed material into the precision ground bars required to make a precision product.

Finally ... "Cool" was a word refering to the relative state of temperature difference between two objects until the 1950's. In the 1970's, you took note of the subject when you heard the word "Hot" (girl or bowl of soup?). When "billet" is being nearly universally used today to describe an extreme machining requirement to reach the final completed part, I don't see the point in arguing the terminology - unless you don't do much machining from "billet". Personally, I make parts from billet (BOTH uses of the word). I machine objects from 9 pound chucks of steel, and I machine objects from oversized sections of aluminum which arrives at my shop in managable forms. Some start with a smooth outside surface ... until I machine it off. Mostly we use the preshaped forms (square - rectangle - round) to aid in clamping and aligning the materials during initial machining operations. I've never seen one of those custom wheel machines have a mis-shapen, rough, clump of aluminum clamped to it's table to start. All I've ever noted was a gleeming, precision turned, flat and true initial billet of material going into the booth.

Thanks,

Gary
It's only important when you compare finished items. Let's see:

Barrel Clamp: maybe $20 vs. Barrel Clamp: maybe $100. Who cares? The buyer. If one is a little thin band sawn strap of bar stock with a couple of holes in it and a grub screw ... and the other is a billet machined far more complex pc. ... maybe the buyer sees WHY they'd cost a different amount and require a different amount of tooling and time to produce.

Trigger Guard: maybe $5 vs. Trigger guard: maybe $75. Who Cares? The buyer. If one's a little bent strap of iron and the other is a machined (maybe integral) part of the trigger block. Maybe the buyer sees a difference in the work required.

Reciever: one may be a screwed on length of tubing, the other machined from a nine pound block of steel - with integral valve body. Who cares? The person writing the check mostly. It would seem that both techniques can producing a functional object - it would also seem obvious why one technique may require more time and money to produce. If a person doesn't care to buy one or the other, they won't. If they are intrigued by and want one over the other - they will.

This is a manufactured argument. Anyone today - asked to identify a billet item from among a choice of objects could do so. The opposite of billet is (mostly) sawn, stamped, laser cut items from sheet stock or flat bar stock. Such parts mostly have a 2 dimensional look. Square edges - often cut from a far thinner material. They can have a "paper doll" look unless great care is taken to finish them. Billet items almost always have an "organic" look. They flow. They are often machined from thicker material giving an appearance many are drawn to. Buy whichever you wish.

You don't see stamped or sheet metal wheels on custom motorcycles. You see the stamped wheels on utility trailers. Probably 1/4" or 5/16" sheet steel - stamped and dished with a die set and then welded to a steel rim. Spray painted white. Custom billet wheels (as I alluded to before) start with a precision milled and turned "billet" of solid material. Any contour is "machined" in - not bent in. The final result - though it may appear to flow ... was sculpted from a solid mass. Some love it.

The terms are well known and understood. Easily recognizable to all. Why would someone who doesn't make billet parts go to the effort of discrediting such a universally understood industry label? Especially in such an "informational post" calling attention to an airgun maker who tried to impress people by claiming that his breeches were billet when they were nothing but bar stock.

Gary
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