Because there has been and always will be...............

Because there has been and always will be...............

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 12:48 am

June 22nd, 2011, 11:57 am #1

controversy over the Springers vs. pcp's in the hunter class... and .... until the springer class grows enough to warrant the separation ..... I would be willing to give the springer boys a 5 point handicap over the pcp competition in a 50 target event or 10 points in a 100 target. At least that might cut down the justifiable complaints until some more durable can take place. Not pot stiring just bored and mabe a little generous!(LOL) Any thoughts on ways to level the playing field for the old duffers of the "spring"?
Last edited by dayjd on June 22nd, 2011, 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Share

Joined: July 24th, 2010, 1:44 am

June 22nd, 2011, 12:27 pm #2

LOL.......I'm guessin' that if/when the split takes place the hft ranks will actually grow since the piston shooters who are a bit too timid to mix it up with the "scuba guns" will be more comfortible shooting with folks of similar equipment. I've noticed that the DIFTA match results don't list the equipment used, and while the recent 9 shooter hft field MIGHT have been split up between PCP & piston, I'm guessing that there were only a couple "pistoners". Because of the relative lack of piston shooters in the class I understand your sentiment, but IMHO, it is what it is and the only real fix is the equipment separation IF there are enough piston shooters to make a meaningful win. LOL.....I have a BOX of 3rd place "win certificates" for being the last place shooter in a field of three! And I don't think that a "win" due to "bonus points" would be any better than 3rd place in a field of three.

IMHO, hft rules were influenced by light shooter participation and an attitude that hft was a "red headed step child"..... until there is a hft "platform split", I'm content keeping the ruling as they are!
Last edited by nced1 on June 22nd, 2011, 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Share

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 12:48 am

June 22nd, 2011, 2:55 pm #3

As you know I've always felt that the springer shooters should not have to compete against the dark side. However, many sports do handicap to equal the playing field.
My suggestion was only a brain fart for as you know "Many that Play have no Say"! The silent minority will most likely address this disparity someday. I know we're not getting any younger but neither are they.
Reply
Share

Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

June 22nd, 2011, 3:43 pm #4

controversy over the Springers vs. pcp's in the hunter class... and .... until the springer class grows enough to warrant the separation ..... I would be willing to give the springer boys a 5 point handicap over the pcp competition in a 50 target event or 10 points in a 100 target. At least that might cut down the justifiable complaints until some more durable can take place. Not pot stiring just bored and mabe a little generous!(LOL) Any thoughts on ways to level the playing field for the old duffers of the "spring"?
and it was more of a couple of friends decided let's shoot it locally and have some fun amongst us...no serious competition...

But I'd say let's get the Sproingers and Puffers separated!!! Until then, let's keep it simple/as is unless your local club decides to create some accomodations like what you are suggesting...

Granted I DO think LOCAL CLUBS should take it upon theirselves to separate the Springers and PCP's in HFT. It's in their best interest of attracting and retaining shooters imho.

I've heard arguments that "No, its not justified if there aren't x number of shooters...costs too much for a separate trophy at the end of the year and isn't warranted if there aren't always x number of shooters..."

My take is:

1) Ya don't have to give out a trophy, heck, computer generated Certificates should be more than Adequate for Local Year End Awards.

2) Say you got a couple of shooters that regularly, over the span of YEARS, participate in HFT some with pcps and others with springers, pcp shooters always dominate the scores by a big margin...Is the cost of a certificate or trophy really worth losing the springer shooters?

Just my 2 cents!

Regards,

Tony
Reply
Share

Joined: July 6th, 2002, 8:59 pm

June 22nd, 2011, 4:30 pm #5

controversy over the Springers vs. pcp's in the hunter class... and .... until the springer class grows enough to warrant the separation ..... I would be willing to give the springer boys a 5 point handicap over the pcp competition in a 50 target event or 10 points in a 100 target. At least that might cut down the justifiable complaints until some more durable can take place. Not pot stiring just bored and mabe a little generous!(LOL) Any thoughts on ways to level the playing field for the old duffers of the "spring"?
If you want to split HFT into separate PCP & Piston, that should be fine at the local level.
(AAFTA rules changes are primarily intended to affect the Nationals)

HookEm
Reply
Share

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 12:48 am

June 22nd, 2011, 5:24 pm #6

and it was more of a couple of friends decided let's shoot it locally and have some fun amongst us...no serious competition...

But I'd say let's get the Sproingers and Puffers separated!!! Until then, let's keep it simple/as is unless your local club decides to create some accomodations like what you are suggesting...

Granted I DO think LOCAL CLUBS should take it upon theirselves to separate the Springers and PCP's in HFT. It's in their best interest of attracting and retaining shooters imho.

I've heard arguments that "No, its not justified if there aren't x number of shooters...costs too much for a separate trophy at the end of the year and isn't warranted if there aren't always x number of shooters..."

My take is:

1) Ya don't have to give out a trophy, heck, computer generated Certificates should be more than Adequate for Local Year End Awards.

2) Say you got a couple of shooters that regularly, over the span of YEARS, participate in HFT some with pcps and others with springers, pcp shooters always dominate the scores by a big margin...Is the cost of a certificate or trophy really worth losing the springer shooters?

Just my 2 cents!

Regards,

Tony
How come you always bill us a dime? ;>)
Reply
Share

Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

June 22nd, 2011, 5:39 pm #7

like in Europe, Value Added Tax, lol!!!

Regards,

Tony
Reply
Share

-bp
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 4:21 pm

June 22nd, 2011, 9:21 pm #8

If you want to split HFT into separate PCP & Piston, that should be fine at the local level.
(AAFTA rules changes are primarily intended to affect the Nationals)

HookEm
...to make it a reality.

at difta, we've got a growing field, and we'll do all we can to keep it growing.

i think the 9 hunters we had this last time was a record for hunter class.

gotta get more

-bp
Reply
Share

Joined: April 30th, 2009, 7:12 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 12:28 am #9

controversy over the Springers vs. pcp's in the hunter class... and .... until the springer class grows enough to warrant the separation ..... I would be willing to give the springer boys a 5 point handicap over the pcp competition in a 50 target event or 10 points in a 100 target. At least that might cut down the justifiable complaints until some more durable can take place. Not pot stiring just bored and mabe a little generous!(LOL) Any thoughts on ways to level the playing field for the old duffers of the "spring"?
Every time I read a class based thread one thing that seems to stand out is that "if there were enough shooters" we could....
Well, since we don't currently have enough shooters on a regular basis to split classes up in a meaningful fashion maybe a different distinction is in order.

I've only shot 2x and DO NOT feel that I have any magic solutions but maybe a handicap system would benefit the hunter class. Doesn't have to be points. Could be a forced position, could be a handful of "PCP" targets that must be shot that are a little more difficult or something else.

I shoot PCP's. Most of the folks I shot with in HFT last week were shooting springers, I was impressed by their scores and how hard they worked (practiced) to achieve them. I kinda felt like a hack beating some of the scores.

Springers require a focus and skill that I would need to work much harder to achieve compared to a springer shooter trying to pick up a PCP and compete.

It makes sense to me.
Reply
Share

Joined: July 6th, 2002, 8:59 pm

June 23rd, 2011, 1:11 am #10

Let's see: if I'm shooting Piston I'd have a chance at "first" place, if the PCP shooters take a handicap: forced position, hand behind their back, whatever; whereas if we shoot the same way, I may finish "third"... So, what have we accomplished?

That seems to me like just an inflated opportunity to win a match... Personally, I'd rather shoot the same way, and let the chips fall where they may (and so what if I don't get "first" place?... At least I know the battle was "Mano a Mano").

I've always been a proponent of: same course, same targets, same scoring, etc... With winning opportunities across classes (as the number of shooters may dictate)... That's easier to manage for the MD, and allows for best comparisons between shooters... Of course, it ain't perfect, but seems like the most practical.

HookEm
Last edited by HookEm on June 23rd, 2011, 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Share