Am I really anal or just a serious springer man?

Joined: June 17th, 2011, 12:59 pm

May 26th, 2017, 10:40 pm #1

First, thanks to all who have answered all of my questions about my RWS 54. FYI, she is off to John in PA. More on that later.

For now, I have been alone w/my Prosport .177cal and boy I'll tell you...FREAKING AMAZING!!! But I am really leaning to the adjective "anal". Seriously. This is what I do and always have done from cheap Crosman Springers to my Prosport, my RX2 and my 54.

Ok, let me start with what I do when I try to find the magic hold. I begin by putting white surgical tape from the trigger guard all the way to the forend of the stock. Then I mark it in 1" intervals then lets say I have 3-5 different types of pellets to try to find the "magic pellet". Well after loading lets say jsb 8.4gr, I begin with a open but tight/stiff palm "artillery hold" at the trigger guard and shoot 5 or 10rds and see how they place. Then I try a relaxed palm "artillery hold", shoot 5-10rds and note how they place. I will do that all the way through those 1" intervals no matter how many they are. I do take my time, sometimes it seems forever but I "feel" that I have to do so. And as all fans/shooters of springer know, consistency and the ability to repeat the exactness of hold, trigger squeeze and follow through are keys to springer accuracy. Now mind you, I do this to and for every type of pellet that I want to try for.

Ok, so lets say that jsb's showed the tightest groupings of all the pellets. And lets also say that the 2" mark and the 4" mark on the tape showed where the rifle liked to be held with said pellet. Instead of leaving well enough alone, I decide to try different hold styles. Remember the relaxed and the stiff palm? Well I do them still but now I'll, lets say, have my thumb touch the stock w/a stiff palm then a relaxed palm. Or I will center the stock on my stiff palm without my thumb touching (my left hand is my support hand since i'm a right handed shooter), then I will turn my hand towards my right until my thumb touches. Believe it or not, to me, it does change the POI. Sometimes a major change, other times, not so much. All depending on pellet choice and stiff/relaxed palm. I have even tried resting the stock on a closed fist. I tried just my index and thumb. Sometimes I tried my index, thumb and middle finger and go through the 1" intervals again.

Yes to some, that may seem like a lot. But when I can and have produced groups that are close to, that are the same and at times that are even better than what some people achieve from shooting from the bench (I shoot of a 10"-12" bucket, support hand's elbow on my knee) then its well worth it.

So tell me, am I really anal or a serious/dedicated airgunner?
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Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 4:02 pm

May 26th, 2017, 11:37 pm #2

If I have a gun that takes all that to shoot consistent tight groups, it gets fixed until I am happy with it or sold to someone who likes shooting a rifle like that.

I am a hunter mostly, so I need the first shot to go where it is supposed to consistently without zen form. Consequently most of my rifles are mid powered underlevers or mid powered breakbarrels. They tend to be the least hold sensitive, and with careful tuning and lubrication are very temperature stable.

It's not my place to tell you if you are "anal" or a "serious/dedicated airgunner". But I will tell you that you are damn patient and persistent, LOL.

Just yanking your chain

Thanks for sharing your routine with us. Reading and learning about how other folks enjoy airgunning is always interesting. Everyone is looking for something different in airguns, and that's why it's such a cool hobby.......just wish it was cheaper!
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Joined: June 17th, 2011, 12:59 pm

May 27th, 2017, 12:05 am #3

cjones, thank you nt
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Joined: December 18th, 2015, 10:18 am

May 27th, 2017, 1:06 am #4

First, thanks to all who have answered all of my questions about my RWS 54. FYI, she is off to John in PA. More on that later.

For now, I have been alone w/my Prosport .177cal and boy I'll tell you...FREAKING AMAZING!!! But I am really leaning to the adjective "anal". Seriously. This is what I do and always have done from cheap Crosman Springers to my Prosport, my RX2 and my 54.

Ok, let me start with what I do when I try to find the magic hold. I begin by putting white surgical tape from the trigger guard all the way to the forend of the stock. Then I mark it in 1" intervals then lets say I have 3-5 different types of pellets to try to find the "magic pellet". Well after loading lets say jsb 8.4gr, I begin with a open but tight/stiff palm "artillery hold" at the trigger guard and shoot 5 or 10rds and see how they place. Then I try a relaxed palm "artillery hold", shoot 5-10rds and note how they place. I will do that all the way through those 1" intervals no matter how many they are. I do take my time, sometimes it seems forever but I "feel" that I have to do so. And as all fans/shooters of springer know, consistency and the ability to repeat the exactness of hold, trigger squeeze and follow through are keys to springer accuracy. Now mind you, I do this to and for every type of pellet that I want to try for.

Ok, so lets say that jsb's showed the tightest groupings of all the pellets. And lets also say that the 2" mark and the 4" mark on the tape showed where the rifle liked to be held with said pellet. Instead of leaving well enough alone, I decide to try different hold styles. Remember the relaxed and the stiff palm? Well I do them still but now I'll, lets say, have my thumb touch the stock w/a stiff palm then a relaxed palm. Or I will center the stock on my stiff palm without my thumb touching (my left hand is my support hand since i'm a right handed shooter), then I will turn my hand towards my right until my thumb touches. Believe it or not, to me, it does change the POI. Sometimes a major change, other times, not so much. All depending on pellet choice and stiff/relaxed palm. I have even tried resting the stock on a closed fist. I tried just my index and thumb. Sometimes I tried my index, thumb and middle finger and go through the 1" intervals again.

Yes to some, that may seem like a lot. But when I can and have produced groups that are close to, that are the same and at times that are even better than what some people achieve from shooting from the bench (I shoot of a 10"-12" bucket, support hand's elbow on my knee) then its well worth it.

So tell me, am I really anal or a serious/dedicated airgunner?
I think most of us long time airgunners can relate to your frustration and struggle.....
I too, chased the magic hold for my airgun darling of the montth only to experience POI shifts the very next outing...
The only "not hold sensitive" break barrel I've shot is a FWB 124...all others I've owned are now someone else's dilemma to unravel.
I discovered FWB 300s and hotrodded a few to shoot close to or right at 700fps with JSBs...that is my springer solution.
No special hold to get consistent accuracy....excellent triggers.
After 40 yrs it took the 300 to bring the joy to my backyard shooting and pest control.
Just a suggestion...from some oldster who was once anal too.
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Joined: March 28th, 2002, 6:54 pm

May 27th, 2017, 5:32 am #5

If I have a gun that takes all that to shoot consistent tight groups, it gets fixed until I am happy with it or sold to someone who likes shooting a rifle like that.

I am a hunter mostly, so I need the first shot to go where it is supposed to consistently without zen form. Consequently most of my rifles are mid powered underlevers or mid powered breakbarrels. They tend to be the least hold sensitive, and with careful tuning and lubrication are very temperature stable.

It's not my place to tell you if you are "anal" or a "serious/dedicated airgunner". But I will tell you that you are damn patient and persistent, LOL.

Just yanking your chain

Thanks for sharing your routine with us. Reading and learning about how other folks enjoy airgunning is always interesting. Everyone is looking for something different in airguns, and that's why it's such a cool hobby.......just wish it was cheaper!
position.

Just kidding about the tongue position...sorta...
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Joined: October 11th, 2016, 2:27 pm

May 27th, 2017, 11:41 am #6

First, thanks to all who have answered all of my questions about my RWS 54. FYI, she is off to John in PA. More on that later.

For now, I have been alone w/my Prosport .177cal and boy I'll tell you...FREAKING AMAZING!!! But I am really leaning to the adjective "anal". Seriously. This is what I do and always have done from cheap Crosman Springers to my Prosport, my RX2 and my 54.

Ok, let me start with what I do when I try to find the magic hold. I begin by putting white surgical tape from the trigger guard all the way to the forend of the stock. Then I mark it in 1" intervals then lets say I have 3-5 different types of pellets to try to find the "magic pellet". Well after loading lets say jsb 8.4gr, I begin with a open but tight/stiff palm "artillery hold" at the trigger guard and shoot 5 or 10rds and see how they place. Then I try a relaxed palm "artillery hold", shoot 5-10rds and note how they place. I will do that all the way through those 1" intervals no matter how many they are. I do take my time, sometimes it seems forever but I "feel" that I have to do so. And as all fans/shooters of springer know, consistency and the ability to repeat the exactness of hold, trigger squeeze and follow through are keys to springer accuracy. Now mind you, I do this to and for every type of pellet that I want to try for.

Ok, so lets say that jsb's showed the tightest groupings of all the pellets. And lets also say that the 2" mark and the 4" mark on the tape showed where the rifle liked to be held with said pellet. Instead of leaving well enough alone, I decide to try different hold styles. Remember the relaxed and the stiff palm? Well I do them still but now I'll, lets say, have my thumb touch the stock w/a stiff palm then a relaxed palm. Or I will center the stock on my stiff palm without my thumb touching (my left hand is my support hand since i'm a right handed shooter), then I will turn my hand towards my right until my thumb touches. Believe it or not, to me, it does change the POI. Sometimes a major change, other times, not so much. All depending on pellet choice and stiff/relaxed palm. I have even tried resting the stock on a closed fist. I tried just my index and thumb. Sometimes I tried my index, thumb and middle finger and go through the 1" intervals again.

Yes to some, that may seem like a lot. But when I can and have produced groups that are close to, that are the same and at times that are even better than what some people achieve from shooting from the bench (I shoot of a 10"-12" bucket, support hand's elbow on my knee) then its well worth it.

So tell me, am I really anal or a serious/dedicated airgunner?
you should see a huge difference in where you NEED to hold it for accuracy. I'll predict that you need to hold it in the most comfortable balanced area and learn to hold it there and place your facial bones against the comb in THE EXACT same place and distance from scope bell. Just far enough back to give you a clear full circle of light. It should be putting hole in hole after John is through with Her.
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Joined: June 17th, 2011, 12:59 pm

May 28th, 2017, 1:08 am #7

Thank you JD nt
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Joined: November 17th, 2006, 3:51 am

May 28th, 2017, 1:19 am #8

First, thanks to all who have answered all of my questions about my RWS 54. FYI, she is off to John in PA. More on that later.

For now, I have been alone w/my Prosport .177cal and boy I'll tell you...FREAKING AMAZING!!! But I am really leaning to the adjective "anal". Seriously. This is what I do and always have done from cheap Crosman Springers to my Prosport, my RX2 and my 54.

Ok, let me start with what I do when I try to find the magic hold. I begin by putting white surgical tape from the trigger guard all the way to the forend of the stock. Then I mark it in 1" intervals then lets say I have 3-5 different types of pellets to try to find the "magic pellet". Well after loading lets say jsb 8.4gr, I begin with a open but tight/stiff palm "artillery hold" at the trigger guard and shoot 5 or 10rds and see how they place. Then I try a relaxed palm "artillery hold", shoot 5-10rds and note how they place. I will do that all the way through those 1" intervals no matter how many they are. I do take my time, sometimes it seems forever but I "feel" that I have to do so. And as all fans/shooters of springer know, consistency and the ability to repeat the exactness of hold, trigger squeeze and follow through are keys to springer accuracy. Now mind you, I do this to and for every type of pellet that I want to try for.

Ok, so lets say that jsb's showed the tightest groupings of all the pellets. And lets also say that the 2" mark and the 4" mark on the tape showed where the rifle liked to be held with said pellet. Instead of leaving well enough alone, I decide to try different hold styles. Remember the relaxed and the stiff palm? Well I do them still but now I'll, lets say, have my thumb touch the stock w/a stiff palm then a relaxed palm. Or I will center the stock on my stiff palm without my thumb touching (my left hand is my support hand since i'm a right handed shooter), then I will turn my hand towards my right until my thumb touches. Believe it or not, to me, it does change the POI. Sometimes a major change, other times, not so much. All depending on pellet choice and stiff/relaxed palm. I have even tried resting the stock on a closed fist. I tried just my index and thumb. Sometimes I tried my index, thumb and middle finger and go through the 1" intervals again.

Yes to some, that may seem like a lot. But when I can and have produced groups that are close to, that are the same and at times that are even better than what some people achieve from shooting from the bench (I shoot of a 10"-12" bucket, support hand's elbow on my knee) then its well worth it.

So tell me, am I really anal or a serious/dedicated airgunner?
,,,but ti does seem that a whole lot of us airgun-nuts on this forum are.
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Joined: October 11th, 2016, 2:27 pm

May 28th, 2017, 12:59 pm #9

you should see a huge difference in where you NEED to hold it for accuracy. I'll predict that you need to hold it in the most comfortable balanced area and learn to hold it there and place your facial bones against the comb in THE EXACT same place and distance from scope bell. Just far enough back to give you a clear full circle of light. It should be putting hole in hole after John is through with Her.
learn to repeat it to a T when you shoot. Tolerance stacking can be unbelievable from various holds alone, rested, bi-pod, sand bagged, mechanical. This is a spring gun and it's finicky with a relatively slow dwell time. I'm saying though, you will definitely notice a night and day difference when John is done. You must still do your part.
It's not my job to get paid to teach how to shoot but I see many folks at ranges years past who would fidget and adjust and change their distance of face from ocular bell. That'll cause you to miss every time.
It's been said here but get real close to your scope, hold rifle as you naturally feel most comfortable. Pull your face back just enough to get a solid clear full circle of light. While you're up close, look through it. You'll see a round patch of light. CENTER that round patch concentrically around your crosshairs and slowly, keeping it centered, pull back until you get a full clear lit up ocular bell. NOW, HOLD THAT POSITION and remember EVERYTHING about it. The amount of pressure you are exerting where. Where each finger is. Where the rifles comb is pressing against your cheek bone. You want to be able to grab your rifle and repeat your hold as if there were an invisible stencil on it and your hands, face, etc. would have to match it perfectly every time.
This is a huge part of shooting and when you master this you'll get amazing results.
It's also why the saying "Beware of The Man with ONE gun" is true. He knows it and knows it but well. I only have 6 rifles now; but if I devoted ALL my time to my regulated Rainstorm I'd probably get to the point where I could light matches at 50 yards on a regular basis.
Like it's been said, (I personally like LT. Aldo Raines statement of it) "you know how you get to Carnegie Hall? PRACTICE!

Edit: an adjustable comb height, and even better a fully adjustable stock is why World Class shooters have them. You can twist your butt pad a bit and raise or lower it, you can raise your comb height and get JUST right for you. This helps with a true repetitive hold.
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