AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club

AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club

Joined: June 1st, 2014, 5:17 am

February 6th, 2017, 7:12 am #1

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
Last edited by SRGTO04 on February 6th, 2017, 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 30th, 2008, 6:16 pm

February 13th, 2017, 8:32 pm #2

Normally, an announcement of the national championships would bring comments from shooters, expressing "thanks for the info," "look forward to it", "Shaping up to be a great event." etc. Instead, nothing but "cricket" sounds for more than 7 days. No replies at all. I'm thinking the lack of feedback reflects a polite "say something nice or nothing at all" stance.

Sorry in advance if I am too blunt. But I was really looking forward to this National Match (my 5th in a row), easily driveable for me and several others from Texas. But now, I am frankly stopped cold with several reservations.

And I am not alone. Instead of comments posted here, the underground network appears to be a BUZZ with complaints.

I don't know why, but so far, I have received FOUR unsolicited emails from nationally recognized fellow competitors. Each is grumbling about what they feel are RADICAL changes for the 2017 Nationals. Mostly about the exorbitant increase in entry fees ($165, up 88% over last year's $88), and the justification for the increases... To support a mandatory Sunday NIGHT Awards Banquet, but NOT support first through 5th place awards in the matches themselves (ribbons for 4th-5th?). Not to mention a "lots of forced position shots" promise, when the GP rules specify no more than 20 (total) for any match 100 shots or more.

Required attendance at a BANQUET that won't end before 10pm or later means the traditional "Sunday evening get away" is out the window. Instead, you will have to book your flight home for the next day, and stay an extra night in the hotel instead (still more expense). Take an extra vacation day from work on Monday, a day you might prefer to reserve for the Nov-December holidays. I'm retired so it doesn't matter that much to me. But most who fly to any National Match do so because they need to be at work Monday morning (rather than taking additional days off).

A formal banquet also means the need to pack more luggage... nice slacks, a jacket and dress shoes. (The banquet is to be held at a "Golf Club." ALL the Golf Clubs I know have dress codes.) People (especially those in shoot-offs) will find little to zero time to rush to the hotel to shower and prep then drive to the banquet. Those who skip the banquet to catch a plane instead (or start a long drive to the east coast) will feel even more jilted at wasting 1/3 of their entry fee. Trophies will have to be mailed, etc.

The question is crystal clear... Why a banquet at all that disrupts historical expectations? Also, there are planned mandatory, one-hour lunch breaks during each rifle match. This will push the finish of each 68-shot match well into the evening at earliest (presuming all goes to schedule)? Provided Continental Breakfasts? Snack bars at some lanes?

What shooter serious about doing well at Nationals wants to interrupt their match plan to eat all these heavy meals? I don't know of anyone.

Are we being invited to an airgun shoot, or a running, weekend-long BUFFET?

Other nits, like shooters may not reset their own targets, presumably not to handle the lines at all. All guns required to have empty chamber indicators (you piston guys will love that one). Makes me wonder if anyone in Phoenix has ever been to an AAFTA National Championship weekend to see what is normal or expected?

Phoenix says they want to put on a "first class event." Wonderful goal. But FWIW, my idea of a 1st class Nationals is a well-organized, well-run match, period... not the culinary trappings that surround it, or any other show. IMO, this banquet idea will be memorable alright, but not in a positive way if it means only 40-50 people attend the weekend (mostly west coasters).

I think priorities are well askew here, changes that will impose unnecessary inconveniences on ALL attendees. Based on the emails, I know of several regular attendees who are likely to skip this one unless drastic changes are made that cater to their desires, not the hosting club's desires. If I know of a few, that means there are dozens of others I don't know. If you are one of them, chime in here, please.

I hate bringing it up, but this discussion needs to start now...

I hope the BoG is planning to intervene with Phoenix about all this? The shooters rely on the BoG to represent them to the hosts of these matches.

Again, sorry for this rant.
Last edited by MB-BOB on February 14th, 2017, 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 9th, 2011, 11:46 pm

February 14th, 2017, 2:22 am #3

I am not attending this years National's for the first time since I started traveling for this sport 4 years ago. I have traveled to 3 GP events a year for the past 3 years and 2017 will be my 4th year. Unfortunately, I will not be able to drive for 2 days each way...attend a mandatory Thursday meeting(another extra day off work and in a hotel)...attend a mandatory banquet SUNDAY evening(yet another day in the hotel and off work since there is no way to get home for work Monday and since Monday and Tuesday would have to be driving days, that equates to 2 more days off for travel each direction for me. Most GP events I drive to are less than 15 hours each direction driving and this would be 25 hours of driving alone, so add another night in a hotel half way through the drive since we cannot drive 25 hours straight through.

That makes 2 more days off work before the match to get there. 2 more days off work after the match since Sunday is not a travel day. 1 more day in a hotel mid trip both ways for 2 more hotel nights.

All of this adds up to me not being able to attend. So now I need to plan my GP events this year to assure I make 3.

There is not a single person that is serious about their performance that will stop mid way through your event and have a large meal. Your heart rate goes up by 20-30 bpm when you eat and that is not something that anyone will enjoy when they sit back down to shoot. Most of the good shooters will pass on that meal and snack all day long through the match to moderate their heart rate and energy level through the whole match.

I have nothing against the hosting club. I just do not think they planned this out well. I think they want it to be a week long of exposure to vendors which is absolutely their right to do, they are hosting the event and they can do it however they like. Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend the event this year and for that I am saddened but that just means I need to make sure I have plenty of fun at the 3 GP's I do attend.

This opinion in NO WAY reflects on anyone aside from me. Nobody at my club, nobody at AAFTA, nobody else that I shoot with. This is purely my opinion and the reasons I am not able to attend the Nat's this year.
Last edited by Boomer75 on February 14th, 2017, 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 13th, 2008, 9:13 pm

February 14th, 2017, 3:21 pm #4

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
What they said..... Sigh.
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Joined: January 1st, 2012, 11:50 pm

February 14th, 2017, 6:54 pm #5

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
For those (mostly West Coasters) that have spent 80 hours on the road the last few AAFTA Nationals, I don't think 5hrs extra for a banquet will be a deal breaker. Total driving for this years Nationals should be under 20hrs for me. So piece of cake. Whether the banquet makes it worth the $165 entry price is yet to be seen.

CASA could have a good contingent as it's only 5-6hrs away.

Those coming from Maine will have a trek. Bill day - What are your plans?

I'm looking forward to seeing the actual schedule of events.

BTW: "Open" pistol is no longer an AAFTA Division. It's now called "Limited" pistol.
Last edited by Scotchmo1957 on February 14th, 2017, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 10th, 2014, 8:07 am

February 14th, 2017, 10:45 pm #6

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
I'll be traveling to Wales for Worlds. Money will be tight after that. If I can't fly in friday night, shoot saturday and sunday then leave sunday after the match for less than $165 it's a deal breaker. I've never shot a Nationals for the extra's. If they want to offer a match only price of $50 or something, no meals or swag bag I'll go no problems.

Edited: I just read the match details. No thanks.
Last edited by jroh1 on February 14th, 2017, 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 23rd, 2006, 3:04 am

February 15th, 2017, 2:25 am #7

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
...and that was in North Carolina so I don't have a lot to compare to. However, here it is:

I was shocked at the price increase. I was planning to attend and bring my spouse. However, with my entry fee and her banquet fee, that ups that price to $215.00

The Sunday banquet means we have to stay again Monday night. Thus, another night of expense.

Elevation-I hadn't even thought of that so I appreciate the heads up. Perhaps giving us the elevation of the shooting range would be helpful as we attempt to compensate.

The 10:00 am start for pistol means that you might not have time to do pistol if you can only get to the range for rifle sight in on Friday. While I'd love to be there all day Thursday for sight in and shooting, I just don't think I can get off another day. I'm concerned about this elevation thing which is why the thought about range time.

I'm also against this lunch break during the match. Please let me shoot the whole match and then eat.

I do shoot springer, so I'm not sure about that empty breech thing.

Now for some positives:

Nice job on the range. It looks like you are trying to get your range up to World's standards and that's really cool.

Your desire to have a topnotch event sounds great.

Please consider the comments here.

Thanks for all you are doing to host this event. I'm sure all of the comments are meant as constructive criticism.

Randy
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Joined: February 23rd, 2015, 1:44 am

February 15th, 2017, 3:52 am #8

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
First I only started FT in 2015 with the nationals as NC my first grand prix event. This past year I competed in 6 GPs… Three in the South East and three in the North East including the Nationals in Michigan.
At each of these events the cost of the event was never over $100 even with Giunslynger, Pay day, Challenge and Quigley events at the Pyramid Cup. So $165.00 seems a little high. I guess the Banquet is pretty fancy to justify the added funding…??

The shotgun start is normal but to have 2 teams waiting at lane one, to enter the shooting pad, seems like it will allow the team coming from lane 17 to cool down, waiting to get to shoot.

Plenty of forced positions? Will there be more than is required under the AAFTA rules?

Breaking for lunch in the middle of the match is not good for me either for the reasons already stated above.

LAB Radar……. I have a friend with one and it needs a microphone to pick up the sound from an air gun. Myself and a friend have AZ shrouds on our Steyrs and the sound of the striker is louder than the exit of the pellet!

Thin air and faster FPS…. We need to figure this out and adjust when sighting in. Coming from sea level, we need to take a chrony to figure it out? If so, more stuff to pack, unless one is available to use for this purpose.

Thursday morning briefing was covered, and yes it adds another day to the event along with the Sunday banquet.

The 80 hour round trip is one thing but adding 2 extra days is a deal breaker for me.

The setup of the course and the facility are very nice. I appreciate the efforts in planning and putting on this event, as my club hosted it in 2015.
This is simply my opinion and take it for what it’s worth.
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Joined: April 4th, 2013, 7:07 pm

February 15th, 2017, 4:14 pm #9

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
Leave Tuesday get in Wednesday night after driving two days, Generate new range card for high altitude, attend Thursday meeting, then a bunch of shooting , then Banquet, sleep over on Sunday and drive back 2 day and get back home on a Tuesday. Gone a week, 5 nights in hotel for three days shooting at $90 per night, $450 total. Generally a bummer and deal breaker and I don't need no Stinki'n Banquet like the Extreme Benchrest guys had just to make a good You Tube video of the event. I come to compete for a decent tenth place score. Luckily I am retired so I don't miss a week of work, just time, although I may not have much of that left either.
Now on the other hand, or the good part for me. If Dye, Garvey, Day , Robinson and other really good Hunter PCP shooters don't come, I move up big time in the standings, almost too good to pass up.......I can almost smell VICTORY! It's good to dream or maybe sit home and save a thousand dollars.
Last edited by ocedummy on February 15th, 2017, 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 30th, 2008, 6:16 pm

February 15th, 2017, 7:23 pm #10

Here is a link to the information on the AAFTA National Championship 2017 in November at Phoenix Airgun Club, Phoenix AZ


http://www.phoenixairgun.net/aafta-nats-info
Connecting the dots, we now know that PAG hosted the 2016 Extreme Benchrest Nationals, complete with awards banquet, etc. They may think that the formula for EBR can be cookie-cuttered for AAFTA. I disagree...

I may be mistaken, but I feel that AAFTA Field Target has a different (and much older) history and tradition than EBR. Tradition in particular that accommodates shooters with an early as possible closing of the National Match Sunday afternoon so people can get to the airport and catch a Sunday evening flight home. In short, we don’t need to be like EBR.

A Friday-Sunday National Match is our tradition with which everyone is happy, since participation has grown year after year. Just in the last couple years did we add a Friday pistol match. Are we pressing our luck to add more events -- such as the banquet -- that extends the weekend further?

Something else to consider… Are we setting a precedent too difficult to follow?

It's no secret that there are only a few clubs with enough land (and personnel) willing to host the National Match. I know of at least one year when the venue chosen was “volunteered” only because no other club stepped forward.

Inclusion of a Formal Awards Banquet this year might set a precedent that clubs may feel obligated to follow in future. Among the last 4 Nationals I attended, not one was located near a restaurant/banquet facility. So, clubs might feel the lack of a restaurant disqualifies them to host a future Nationals. Enough to convince them not to bid for a future National Match at all.

I don’t think we want to see that.
Last edited by MB-BOB on February 15th, 2017, 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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