12x Max power vs other (HFT)

12x Max power vs other (HFT)

Joined: April 30th, 2009, 7:12 pm

November 7th, 2011, 12:52 am #1

This is an honest question, not trying to bait an argument....

I've seen numerous posts relating to limiting HFT to 12x max power scopes as opposed to higher power scopes turned down to 12x, and not just in the thread below.
Is there really a difference?

I have a 4-12x Leapers that seems to range find as well as my 8-32x Leapers when both are set to 12x. I know my collection of leapers scopes may not be the best baseline for comparison but it's what I use.

If I continue to shoot hunter I'll use any scope I'm permitted. Right now I choose to use the 8-32x because I also shoot the same rifle longer range off a bench and like the higher mag in that situation and i'd rather use the dots or re-zero than swap scopes.
Reply
Share

Joined: August 14th, 2004, 2:44 am

November 7th, 2011, 1:03 am #2

that are turned down, and one I haven't seen mentioned before.... using one gun for multiple venues.


If the HFT idea is to keep costs down it sure would make sense.


BS
Reply
Share

Joined: April 30th, 2009, 7:12 pm

November 7th, 2011, 1:08 am #3

against the higher mag scopes turned down to 12x.

Is there really a difference that I'm missing, either through lack of experience or by using 'cheap' scopes?
Reply
Share

Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

November 7th, 2011, 1:44 am #4

This is an honest question, not trying to bait an argument....

I've seen numerous posts relating to limiting HFT to 12x max power scopes as opposed to higher power scopes turned down to 12x, and not just in the thread below.
Is there really a difference?

I have a 4-12x Leapers that seems to range find as well as my 8-32x Leapers when both are set to 12x. I know my collection of leapers scopes may not be the best baseline for comparison but it's what I use.

If I continue to shoot hunter I'll use any scope I'm permitted. Right now I choose to use the 8-32x because I also shoot the same rifle longer range off a bench and like the higher mag in that situation and i'd rather use the dots or re-zero than swap scopes.
take this with a grain of salt but posted for your consideration...

a) High Mag scopes can potentially range find better at 12x.

b) Higher Mag Scopes with a Large Objective Lens can range find better than a max 12x scope with Smaller Objective Lens.

c) Higher Mag scopes with Long Optical Tubes/Overall length can range find better than a max 12x scope with typically much shorter Tube/Overall Length than say a 32 - 50x Mag scope.

d) The magnification ring on some High Mag scopes have a set screw that could be removed, thus allowing the ring to be rotated to a position, then retightened so that the 10 or 12x reference is lined up with the Indicator despite the scope actually being set at a magnification greater than 10 or 12x.

Hope this helps...

Regards,

Tony
Reply
Share

Joined: November 15th, 2007, 4:52 am

November 7th, 2011, 1:46 am #5

against the higher mag scopes turned down to 12x.

Is there really a difference that I'm missing, either through lack of experience or by using 'cheap' scopes?
Into my sporter stock and just turn down the the mag to 12x. That big 10-50x scope definately range finds the longer distances better than the scope I used instead while shooting at the Nationals and the Western Regionals.

The bias: The 12x max scope rule makes it simple and straight forward. "Keeps the honest people honest" as they say, and there are No misconceptions or false perceptions.

When someone sees my oversized 10-50x scope with the giant Sidewheel in all its bling up against their 12x budget scope they'll most likely feel like its not fair.





Lonnie Smith
Associate Match Director DFTC
http://www.diablofieldtarget.org/home.html

"It doesn't get done til someone does it"
Last edited by AirSmithCA on November 7th, 2011, 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Share

Joined: September 14th, 2011, 12:50 am

November 7th, 2011, 1:49 am #6

against the higher mag scopes turned down to 12x.

Is there really a difference that I'm missing, either through lack of experience or by using 'cheap' scopes?
I have used some other peoples high-dollar scopes turned down to 12X in HFT. The image was a little sharper and brighter than the low dollar 4-12X scopes (Bushnell Banner, Leapers, etc).

The slightly sharper and brighter image made it significantly easier to determine where the target was actually in focus. ie: There was a 5-10 yard range that all appeared equally in focus when using the cheaper scopes, but only a 2-5 yard range that appeared equally in focus when using the high-dollar scopes. Ranging was both more precise AND a whole lot faster / easier (less back and forth to find the middle of the sharp range).

On the other hand, this was only a big benefit for the 40-55 yard shots --- And there aren't that many of them

Reply
Share

Joined: September 14th, 2011, 12:50 am

November 7th, 2011, 2:02 am #7

Into my sporter stock and just turn down the the mag to 12x. That big 10-50x scope definately range finds the longer distances better than the scope I used instead while shooting at the Nationals and the Western Regionals.

The bias: The 12x max scope rule makes it simple and straight forward. "Keeps the honest people honest" as they say, and there are No misconceptions or false perceptions.

When someone sees my oversized 10-50x scope with the giant Sidewheel in all its bling up against their 12x budget scope they'll most likely feel like its not fair.





Lonnie Smith
Associate Match Director DFTC
http://www.diablofieldtarget.org/home.html

"It doesn't get done til someone does it"
If my home course had more 40-55 yard shots, I'd think the guy with a high dollar scope had a BIG advantage. At my home course, it's only a 3 target advantage - and I'd miss half of those shots with either scope.

I like the idea of a 12X Max rule since it gets rid of the shallow depth of focus and super high resolution glass the expensive scopes have. On the other hand, I think a lot of varmint hunters actually use the 4x16 Centerpoint ($80 @ Walmart). So maybe the rule should be 16X Max.
Reply
Share

Joined: September 14th, 2011, 12:50 am

November 7th, 2011, 2:07 am #8

take this with a grain of salt but posted for your consideration...

a) High Mag scopes can potentially range find better at 12x.

b) Higher Mag Scopes with a Large Objective Lens can range find better than a max 12x scope with Smaller Objective Lens.

c) Higher Mag scopes with Long Optical Tubes/Overall length can range find better than a max 12x scope with typically much shorter Tube/Overall Length than say a 32 - 50x Mag scope.

d) The magnification ring on some High Mag scopes have a set screw that could be removed, thus allowing the ring to be rotated to a position, then retightened so that the 10 or 12x reference is lined up with the Indicator despite the scope actually being set at a magnification greater than 10 or 12x.

Hope this helps...

Regards,

Tony
On the other hand, if we use the UK HFT rules of "no adjusting allowed" (ie: parallax, magnification, elevation, or windage) - then there is no advantage to the huge scopes, and no possibility of cheating. It also mimics hunting much more closely. ie: Ranging by eye, or via mil-dot spacing is one of the primary hunting skills required to hit targets when you only have a few seconds.
Reply
Share

Joined: October 27th, 2003, 11:32 pm

November 7th, 2011, 2:12 am #9

of not touching the focus knob once the course of fire has started for the match...

Personally I'd rather see the rules change to allowing 12x MAX scopes only vs. the no focusing during the match rule.

Regards,

Tony
Reply
Share

Joined: April 30th, 2009, 7:12 pm

November 7th, 2011, 2:18 am #10

This is an honest question, not trying to bait an argument....

I've seen numerous posts relating to limiting HFT to 12x max power scopes as opposed to higher power scopes turned down to 12x, and not just in the thread below.
Is there really a difference?

I have a 4-12x Leapers that seems to range find as well as my 8-32x Leapers when both are set to 12x. I know my collection of leapers scopes may not be the best baseline for comparison but it's what I use.

If I continue to shoot hunter I'll use any scope I'm permitted. Right now I choose to use the 8-32x because I also shoot the same rifle longer range off a bench and like the higher mag in that situation and i'd rather use the dots or re-zero than swap scopes.
Potential aids to range-finding -

Tube size? both my 12x and 32x (max) scopes are 30mm tubes
Tube length? Maybe but no one is discussing a limit on the length of my scope, only the power.
Objective? I just did a search and found a 2-12x50
Price/Quality? One of the scopes i found the that search was over $1200. It better have good glass.

also mentioned
Misunderstanding/Cheating? - Limiting the scope power may provide a level of comfort but the only thing that's going to help on this front (if it's even a problem) is active enforcement.

Intimidation? Heck, isn't that part of any competition? Not one on my goals in life but.... The reality is that the same guys who are spending big bucks on FT scopes will spend big bucks on HFT scopes. Those are the scopes I would be intimidated by.

Still not arguing for or against. I just don't get it.

(btw, I didn't take any time to even read about the scopes I mentioned and have no idea and no interest in weather they's be appropriate for HFT, was just curious if they were out there)

edit...
might have to pick one of these up as an HFT scope... (kidding, my leapers are good enough for me, for now, be it the big one or the 12x)
http://www.opticsplanet.net/burris-3x-1 ... scope.html
Last edited by jcdx25 on November 7th, 2011, 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Share