Oil on start-up

Oil on start-up

Daz
Daz

September 19th, 2008, 3:08 pm #1

Is it generally considered normal for a carbed X to blow out some oily smoke on start up?
Is it worth stripping down and replacing stem seals etc. Reason I ask is its particularly bad when starting up from a recent run. I did notice when I put it all back together that the valve oil seals didnt seem to fit very well althought they were the correct type and were a snug fit.
I think whats happening is oil is seeping from the cam box thru the stem seals and burning when the car is started.
Any recommendations before I resort to taking the top off again!!

Cheers
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Joined: December 21st, 2004, 3:04 am

September 19th, 2008, 5:10 pm #2


... my car sat for 7 years.

After its ressurection, I would sometimes not run the car for 3 - 6 weeks and when it started, large puffs of blue smoke went everywhere.  After a few minutes of running, it appeared to go away.

The problem got progressively worse over the years since... I now have 165K on this engine... and I came to the same conclusion you did... Since it was OK if it was started and run frequwntly, say every other day, then the problem must have been valve stem seals.

One day I thought I would try my "Engine Overhaul in a Can" technique to hopefully improve the compression a bit all around... and also because... over the last 45 years of my life or so... I have been suggesting people try this method... without ACTUALLY ever doing it myself.

I have SEEN it done, and I have seen many FAVORABLE results from its attempts... but never actually did it myself, or did it to any of the cars I have ever owned.

What I did was... slowly dump about 1/3 of a quart of Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) down the throat of my carb... while rev-ing the engine between 3000 and 4000 rpm, over the course of about 10 minutes.

CAUTION... this makes CLOUDS AND CLOUDS of WHITE SMOKE!  Your neighbors will come outside and might possibly call the Fire Department... Forewarn or go to a secluded area...

So... afterwards I re-tested my compression and it came up a full 10 points all around to 145... and then... I noticed over time... I didn't have anymore of these smokey start-ups!

Hmmmmm...  So... this means it could not have been valve seals, but whatever it was... it went away for good.  Its been at least 2 1/2 years...


My best,



Tony
Black Tooth and me... since 1983!
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Pat Higginbotham
Pat Higginbotham

September 19th, 2008, 5:27 pm #3

do you think?
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Joined: December 21st, 2004, 3:04 am

September 19th, 2008, 6:01 pm #4


... finely hone the rings and valves making them seat better.&nbsp; The abrasives are used in the trans to help clutches NOT to slip and are too fine to affect any of the other parts, or too soft... as they circulate with the oil.

But in the engine... they work differently.

We use to use ATF and STP as an engine "assembly lube" mix back in the old days...


My best,



Tony
Black Tooth and me... since 1983!
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Joined: January 18th, 2006, 2:02 am

September 19th, 2008, 7:55 pm #5

... my car sat for 7 years.

After its ressurection, I would sometimes not run the car for 3 - 6 weeks&nbsp;and when it started, large puffs of blue smoke went everywhere.&nbsp; After a few minutes of running, it appeared to go away.

The problem got progressively worse over the years since... I now have 165K on this engine... and I came to the same conclusion you did... Since it was OK if it was started and run frequwntly, say every other day, then the problem must have been valve stem seals.

One day I thought I would try my "Engine Overhaul in a Can" technique to hopefully improve the compression a bit all around... and also&nbsp;because... over the last 45 years of my life or so... I have been suggesting people try this method... without ACTUALLY ever doing it myself.

I have SEEN it done, and I have seen many FAVORABLE results from its attempts... but never actually did it myself, or did it to any of the cars I have ever owned.

What I did was... slowly dump about 1/3 of a quart of Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) down the throat of my carb... while rev-ing the engine between 3000 and 4000 rpm, over the course of about 10 minutes.

CAUTION... this makes CLOUDS AND CLOUDS of WHITE SMOKE!&nbsp; Your neighbors will come outside and might possibly call the Fire Department... Forewarn or go to a secluded area...

So... afterwards I re-tested my compression and it came up a full 10 points all around to 145... and then... I noticed over time... I didn't have anymore of these smokey start-ups!

Hmmmmm...&nbsp; So... this means it could not have been valve seals, but whatever it was... it went away for good.&nbsp; Its been at least 2 1/2 years...


My best,



Tony
Black Tooth and me... since 1983!
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...
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Bob Shutan
Bob Shutan

September 19th, 2008, 8:55 pm #6

Is it generally considered normal for a carbed X to blow out some oily smoke on start up?
Is it worth stripping down and replacing stem seals etc. Reason I ask is its particularly bad when starting up from a recent run. I did notice when I put it all back together that the valve oil seals didnt seem to fit very well althought they were the correct type and were a snug fit.
I think whats happening is oil is seeping from the cam box thru the stem seals and burning when the car is started.
Any recommendations before I resort to taking the top off again!!

Cheers
I used to have same problem on my '74 carbed every Spring when I started it up for first time. Lotsa smoke. Many years ago I started using stuff called RESTORE. Available at any parts place. Mix in a small can with oil. My car doesn't smoke anymore that I can see and uses very little oil. I would try something like that before tearing engine apart.
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Joined: December 21st, 2004, 3:04 am

September 19th, 2008, 11:34 pm #7

...
... and squirt the ATF into the intake.

It should work the same "in theory".

When we were actively doing this back in the old daze.... FI was an extreme rarity.


My best,



Tony
Black Tooth and me... since 1983!
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<font face_"Times Bew Roman" size=1>Disclaimer: This message does not necessarily reflect the views of the sender, or, for that matter, any other carbon-based life form; Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; All models are 18 years of age or older; Dry clean only, do not use bleach, Tumble dry and remove immediately; Do not bend, fold, staple or mutilate; Anchovies, cheese or jalapenos may be added to orders upon request for an additional charge; Professional driver on a closed course, do not attempt to duplicate; Your actual mileage may vary; No substitutions are allowed; Available for a limited time only while supplies last; Offers are void where prohibited by law; Humor is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied; The user assumes full liabilities and originator is not liable for damages due to use or misuse; We are an equal opportunity employer, with no regard to race, religion, sex, or sexual preference; No shoes, no shirt, no service; Read at your own risk; This post may contain material some may find to be objectionable; Parental advisory: Explicit lyrics; keep away from pets and small children; limit one-per-family please; No money down; No purchase necessary; Ask us about our guns-for-dope trade-in plan; You need not be present to win; Some assembly required; Batteries not included; Action figures sold separately; Contents were packed full at the factory, but may have settled during shipping; Peanuts and peanut products are produced in this establishment and also consumed by the author; Sanitized and sealed for your protection; Do not use if safety seal is broken; Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment; Safety goggles may be required during use; Use gloves when handling; Call before you dig; Use only with proper ventilation; For external use only, if a swelling, redness, rash, or irritation develops, discontinue use; Do not place near a flammable or magnetic source; Keep away from open flames; Avoid inhaling fumes or contact with mucous membranes; Contents under pressure, may explode if incinerated; Smoking may be hazardous to your health; No smoking allowed, except in designated areas; The best safeguard, second only to abstinence, is the use of a good laugh; Text is made from 100% recycled electrons and magnetic particles; No animals were harmed while writing this post; No salt, MSG, preservatives, artificial color or flavor added; If ingested, do not induce vomiting, If symptoms persist, consult a comedian; Ribbed for your pleasure, slippery when wet; Must be 18 to enter; No one under 21 allowed; We check IDs to age 40; Seniors Welcome; Ask for our Senior Menu; Present discount coupons to cashier before totaling; An 18% gratuity will be added to the total for parties of 8 or more; We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Return all carts to the store; No dogs allowed, except for the visually impaired; Penalties for early withdrawal, one size fits all; Offer is valid only at participating sites; Prices slightly higher west of the Rockies; Allow four to six weeks for delivery; If defects are found, do not attempt a repair, return to an authorized service center; Please remain seated until the vehicle has come to a complete stop; Objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear; Fasten seat belts; In the unlikely event of a loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will fall from above, cover your face first, then assist those around you. Your seat cushion may be used as a floatation device. This disclaimer is invalid in the event of hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, sonic booms, vibration, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts or any other act of war, unauthorized repair, improper installation, misuse, typos, misspelled words, missing or altered signatures, and incidents owing to computer or disk failure, accidental file deletions, and Acts of God. Other restrictions may, or may not apply.</font>
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Joined: May 19th, 2003, 10:38 pm

September 20th, 2008, 3:29 am #8

Pull a vacuum line (distributor line works great) and stuff the end of it in the can of ATF.

Have a rag handy to wipe the hose off and you are all set.

Yes, this creates TONS of smoke.



Andy Jossy
Medford OR


74 X 1/9

79 2000 Spider w/ IDFs
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Joined: August 29th, 2005, 4:22 am

September 20th, 2008, 5:01 am #9

...
ATF in the combustion mixture will create extra smoke, and oily smoke at that. This can damage the O2 sensor and catalytic converter.

Gregory Smith

'87 Bertone X1/9 Corsa
'88 VW Vanagon
Olympia, Washington, USA
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Joined: August 29th, 2005, 4:22 am

September 20th, 2008, 6:09 am #10

... finely hone the rings and valves making them seat better.&nbsp; The abrasives are used in the trans to help clutches NOT to slip and are too fine to affect any of the other parts, or too soft... as they circulate with the oil.

But in the engine... they work differently.

We use to use ATF and STP as an engine "assembly lube" mix back in the old days...


My best,



Tony
Black Tooth and me... since 1983!
<a href="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/ ... gFixed.jpg " target="_blank">
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<font face_"Times Bew Roman" size=1>Disclaimer: This message does not necessarily reflect the views of the sender, or, for that matter, any other carbon-based life form; Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; All models are 18 years of age or older; Dry clean only, do not use bleach, Tumble dry and remove immediately; Do not bend, fold, staple or mutilate; Anchovies, cheese or jalapenos may be added to orders upon request for an additional charge; Professional driver on a closed course, do not attempt to duplicate; Your actual mileage may vary; No substitutions are allowed; Available for a limited time only while supplies last; Offers are void where prohibited by law; Humor is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied; The user assumes full liabilities and originator is not liable for damages due to use or misuse; We are an equal opportunity employer, with no regard to race, religion, sex, or sexual preference; No shoes, no shirt, no service; Read at your own risk; This post may contain material some may find to be objectionable; Parental advisory: Explicit lyrics; keep away from pets and small children; limit one-per-family please; No money down; No purchase necessary; Ask us about our guns-for-dope trade-in plan; You need not be present to win; Some assembly required; Batteries not included; Action figures sold separately; Contents were packed full at the factory, but may have settled during shipping; Peanuts and peanut products are produced in this establishment and also consumed by the author; Sanitized and sealed for your protection; Do not use if safety seal is broken; Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment; Safety goggles may be required during use; Use gloves when handling; Call before you dig; Use only with proper ventilation; For external use only, if a swelling, redness, rash, or irritation develops, discontinue use; Do not place near a flammable or magnetic source; Keep away from open flames; Avoid inhaling fumes or contact with mucous membranes; Contents under pressure, may explode if incinerated; Smoking may be hazardous to your health; No smoking allowed, except in designated areas; The best safeguard, second only to abstinence, is the use of a good laugh; Text is made from 100% recycled electrons and magnetic particles; No animals were harmed while writing this post; No salt, MSG, preservatives, artificial color or flavor added; If ingested, do not induce vomiting, If symptoms persist, consult a comedian; Ribbed for your pleasure, slippery when wet; Must be 18 to enter; No one under 21 allowed; We check IDs to age 40; Seniors Welcome; Ask for our Senior Menu; Present discount coupons to cashier before totaling; An 18% gratuity will be added to the total for parties of 8 or more; We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. Return all carts to the store; No dogs allowed, except for the visually impaired; Penalties for early withdrawal, one size fits all; Offer is valid only at participating sites; Prices slightly higher west of the Rockies; Allow four to six weeks for delivery; If defects are found, do not attempt a repair, return to an authorized service center; Please remain seated until the vehicle has come to a complete stop; Objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear; Fasten seat belts; In the unlikely event of a loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will fall from above, cover your face first, then assist those around you. Your seat cushion may be used as a floatation device. This disclaimer is invalid in the event of hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, sonic booms, vibration, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts or any other act of war, unauthorized repair, improper installation, misuse, typos, misspelled words, missing or altered signatures, and incidents owing to computer or disk failure, accidental file deletions, and Acts of God. Other restrictions may, or may not apply.</font>
Abrasives? Really? Seems like a good way to ensure the need to replace A/T often.

My understanding is that the detergents in the ATF, which is simply a very refined oil, do the cleaning. A great way to un-stick piston rings, for instance, is to substitute a quart for part of your oil for a while.

I didn't know ATF contained any abrasives, but hey, even at 40 I learn something new all the time.

Gregory Smith

'87 Bertone X1/9 Corsa
'88 VW Vanagon
Olympia, Washington, USA
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