As X1/9 owners, why don't WE design the car?...

As X1/9 owners, why don't WE design the car?...

Bob Brown
Bob Brown

March 10th, 2005, 7:54 pm #1

We can all appreciate a little modernization, even with our original X's.
Rather than campaining our disapproval with those who are producing the next "X", let's give them something concrete to think about. Some real ideas. Volkswagon did it with the Beetle (even though they put the engine in the wrong place!) while keeping a familiar look. And it WAS a success, so why can't the X1/9 take a similar transformation and achieve the same level of success? (BTW, I WANT the engine behind the seat too!)

Examples:
Like a better headlight system (pop-ups with projector-style lamps)
A hybrid engine. (yes, BEHIND the seat!)
Maybe even an automatic transmission (gasp!)
Power Door Locks, power trunk lids (both)
Power adjustable seats
Auto dimming mirror
Slightly wider wheel base
Modernized analog / digital dash & gauges (there was a digital clock after all)
An engineered sound system (for a change!)
Improved braking system / Antilock brakes
Air bags

Among the many options that were offered in the late version X's.

Hey, this is just a start. And you don't have to loose the look & concept of the original X 1/9 to do any this stuff. What do you guys think? I'd love to hear your ideas.

Bob


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Joined: May 27th, 2004, 3:30 am

March 11th, 2005, 3:45 am #2

I take it you mean electric? Where would it fit? Electric motors are big and very very heavy. Couple this with an auto transmission and you'd need a calandar to determine its 0-400 time LOL

poppa X
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Joined: February 15th, 2005, 3:35 am

March 11th, 2005, 3:58 am #3

We can all appreciate a little modernization, even with our original X's.
Rather than campaining our disapproval with those who are producing the next "X", let's give them something concrete to think about. Some real ideas. Volkswagon did it with the Beetle (even though they put the engine in the wrong place!) while keeping a familiar look. And it WAS a success, so why can't the X1/9 take a similar transformation and achieve the same level of success? (BTW, I WANT the engine behind the seat too!)

Examples:
Like a better headlight system (pop-ups with projector-style lamps)
A hybrid engine. (yes, BEHIND the seat!)
Maybe even an automatic transmission (gasp!)
Power Door Locks, power trunk lids (both)
Power adjustable seats
Auto dimming mirror
Slightly wider wheel base
Modernized analog / digital dash & gauges (there was a digital clock after all)
An engineered sound system (for a change!)
Improved braking system / Antilock brakes
Air bags

Among the many options that were offered in the late version X's.

Hey, this is just a start. And you don't have to loose the look & concept of the original X 1/9 to do any this stuff. What do you guys think? I'd love to hear your ideas.

Bob

Good idea but

While I like the Idea of an X owner designed car I am Afraid as a future automotive engineer that it would turn out like something designed by Homer Simpson.

Personally the only idea you suggested aside from designing a car is I like the idea of a nice developed sound system as an option with good sound deadening material throughout the vehicle. All the other stuff I think that you could look for in a luxury sedan not a sports coupe.


Like a better headlight system (pop-ups with projector-style lamps) Aerodynamically horrible

A hybrid engine. (yes, BEHIND the seat!)
Adds cost weigh and t complexity for few if any gains (have you picked up hybrid batteries they are heavy!)
I will concur It must be behind the seat though.

Maybe even an automatic transmission (gasp!)
With all due respect I’m afraid you lost your balls in a Crocheting accident.

Power Door Locks, power trunk lids (both)
Adds Cost complexity and weight.

Power adjustable seats
Adds Cost complexity and weight.

Auto dimming mirror
Adds Cost complexity and weight.

Slightly wider wheel base

Not a bad Idea it would allow a wider engine

Modernized analog / digital dash & gauges (there was a digital clock after all)
An engineered sound system (for a change!)
Digital pickups and gauges are ok as long as they look analog. Digital clocks are ok.

Improved braking system / Antilock brakes
You call ABS an Improvement? It takes control away from the driver.

Air bags
Almost federal Law they cost a lot to make and I feel much, much safer without air bags. (I really like 4pts. And cages.


My Ideas

Duel master brake cylinders for safety designed in a manner that a brake bias adjustment bar can easily be installed. (that’ll kick abs ass any day.)

No TCS.

Clutch style LSD. Set loose.

Engine
2 liter transversely mounted inline six. 4 or five valves per cylinder.
Real short stroke say somewhere around a
80mm bore and a 66mm stroke and say a conservative redline of 9000 redline.
Or a Bore of 88mm and a stroke of 60mm and a 10000 rpm redline

Or boxer six or boxer eight (modified Yamaha R1 engines (valve train))
12-12.5:1 CR

Electronic fuel injection.

300hp is attainable.

Chassis this is the other place to spend quite a bit of time on. I would lean towards double wishbones up front and possibly in the back if there is space. However I fee trailing arms should be investigated as a possibility.

Wheels anything bigger than 15” is stupid in my opinion. 14” is as small as any new car should go for tire availability. 14’s and 15’s are good IMHO.

I really want a car that I can turn into a very dominant rally car easily.


Those are some of my thoughts
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Mac
Mac

March 11th, 2005, 4:17 am #4

There is NO WAY that Fiat is going to use a motorcycle engine, so that's about as off the deep end as a hybrid engine.

I think both of you have some good ideas, and both have a couple of "no way" ones too.

The car remember is to be BUDGET (so too hardcore racing stuff is not going to come stock, nor is any supreme options like power ass warmers etc) and has to have some kind of mass appeal, even if it were to our liking (mid engine with some distinct resemblance physically to the original, on those we seem mostly to agree).

I agree with you Chase that the car would be BEST if completely bare bones, stripped, power nothing (or realistically just as few bells, whistles, frills as possible) it is to be a budget sport car not something with all the power stuff.

I think some of the things Bob mention would have to (or not) happen by law. I think there is no avoiding ABS and airbags for example, and no way to have pop-ups anymore.

Still brainstorming over here... -Mac
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Mac
Mac

March 11th, 2005, 4:46 am #5

We can all appreciate a little modernization, even with our original X's.
Rather than campaining our disapproval with those who are producing the next "X", let's give them something concrete to think about. Some real ideas. Volkswagon did it with the Beetle (even though they put the engine in the wrong place!) while keeping a familiar look. And it WAS a success, so why can't the X1/9 take a similar transformation and achieve the same level of success? (BTW, I WANT the engine behind the seat too!)

Examples:
Like a better headlight system (pop-ups with projector-style lamps)
A hybrid engine. (yes, BEHIND the seat!)
Maybe even an automatic transmission (gasp!)
Power Door Locks, power trunk lids (both)
Power adjustable seats
Auto dimming mirror
Slightly wider wheel base
Modernized analog / digital dash & gauges (there was a digital clock after all)
An engineered sound system (for a change!)
Improved braking system / Antilock brakes
Air bags

Among the many options that were offered in the late version X's.

Hey, this is just a start. And you don't have to loose the look & concept of the original X 1/9 to do any this stuff. What do you guys think? I'd love to hear your ideas.

Bob

I think to be realistic we should consider a new X in terms of its various trim levels, something like:

BASE MODEL:
Bare bones, what would we want the totally stripped down "entry level" X to be? (Here I think of the early X1/9, no frills)

LUX MODEL:
This is the one that has the power options and creature comforts like Bob is thinking of (Here I think of a late model Bertone X for comparison)

"ABARTH" MODEL:
This is the one that would come right off the showroom with Chase's ideas like the uprated brakes and sport package stuff

So why don't we consider such things arranged like so? If Fiat were ever to build such a car, there is little doubt it would be offered in a similar progression of model selections, so we should look at it that way too imho...

Thoughts?

Peace, -Mac
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Mark in Syracuse
Mark in Syracuse

March 11th, 2005, 6:04 am #6

I think a new X should have the same resemblance as the original...to the point where quarter panels could be replaced.

I also like the idea of offering different packages such as an Abarth package. Fiat should have done that with the first X's The late model X's were more in line with a luxury style car. IMO, the paint and interior were too soft (not bold) with two tones and pinstripping. Actually, I could live with the two tone but the pins gotta go.

I also understand the the later X's had even more problems with corrosion than the earlier models.
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Joined: February 15th, 2005, 3:35 am

March 11th, 2005, 7:05 am #7

I think to be realistic we should consider a new X in terms of its various trim levels, something like:

BASE MODEL:
Bare bones, what would we want the totally stripped down "entry level" X to be? (Here I think of the early X1/9, no frills)

LUX MODEL:
This is the one that has the power options and creature comforts like Bob is thinking of (Here I think of a late model Bertone X for comparison)

"ABARTH" MODEL:
This is the one that would come right off the showroom with Chase's ideas like the uprated brakes and sport package stuff

So why don't we consider such things arranged like so? If Fiat were ever to build such a car, there is little doubt it would be offered in a similar progression of model selections, so we should look at it that way too imho...

Thoughts?

Peace, -Mac
Perhaps I was being a little harsh but Bob was talking about features that belong on an escalade a vehicle I feel shouldn't exist.

Any way my question is this Why FIAT?
Granted they did once put there badge on one of the greatest cars ever produced (in our opinions) They have gone soft; the management has no guts or vision as far as I can tell (I would love to be proved wrong). I don’t care if I drive a FIAT. I want a mid engine barebones inexpensive car that looks good, goes fast and handles phenomenally. I don’t care who it’s made by as long as it is made well and what I want. But as much as I love the Lotus Elise I will not be able to afford one any time soon. So it has to be affordable.

Personally I think that there are many other companies that have the ability to produce phenomenal product if there engineers are given free rein or a little leniency.

As for no ABS that is legal. Duel master brake cylinders are also legal cheap (production cost increase ~$20-35), safe and Murphy ’s Law proof. I in fact they are MANDETORY for All Formula SAE (read Society of Automotive Engineers)and Mini Baja competition vehicles for safety reasons. A in car brake bias bar like a wildwood is a BAD idea for a stock production car with a production based driver. ABS would be ok if and only if it where optional and good. It could be done with duel MC’s.

The boxer Eight would be ridiculous and is impractical (sort of) I only want the heads and the FI system off a couple R1’s not the whole engine.
Boxer engines are sweet because you can lower the CG a ton and are perfectly balanced.

An Inline six would be also be BAD ASS and definitely be a defining aspect in the character of the car. You could have two versions a rev happy 2l and a luxury 2.4L stroker. Both NA
2L oversquare (raceable engine)
80mm bore and a 66mm stroke and say a conservative redline of 9000 redline. 210-250 HP
2.4L square
80mm bore 80mm stroke and a 7500rpm redline est. 200 - 210hp+


different Versions are a good idea however I would wish that a base model would come out first so the release is not delayed by something like heated seats. I don't see the luxury model as essential you could have a lot of dealer installed options to cut down on the production differences. The only thing I can think of that is electronic I would like to see added aside from engine controls is heated side mirrors.

I would really like to see a 42V ignition system for improve efficiency and spark.

I will Laugh at Anyone who try's to convince me that an automatic transmission belongs in any "Sports Car" or any car for that matter.
Last edited by Chase_N on April 7th, 2005, 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

March 11th, 2005, 3:49 pm #8

Vettes come automatic.

42V doesn't improve spark... 42V system is for other modules, rest of vehicle works on 12V with DC-DC converters, including ignition.

Most engines have direct coil on plug or dedicated coil/wire/plug per cylinder. Spark is no longer an issue.

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Brett Melancon
Brett Melancon

March 14th, 2005, 6:35 pm #9

There is NO WAY that Fiat is going to use a motorcycle engine, so that's about as off the deep end as a hybrid engine.

I think both of you have some good ideas, and both have a couple of "no way" ones too.

The car remember is to be BUDGET (so too hardcore racing stuff is not going to come stock, nor is any supreme options like power ass warmers etc) and has to have some kind of mass appeal, even if it were to our liking (mid engine with some distinct resemblance physically to the original, on those we seem mostly to agree).

I agree with you Chase that the car would be BEST if completely bare bones, stripped, power nothing (or realistically just as few bells, whistles, frills as possible) it is to be a budget sport car not something with all the power stuff.

I think some of the things Bob mention would have to (or not) happen by law. I think there is no avoiding ABS and airbags for example, and no way to have pop-ups anymore.

Still brainstorming over here... -Mac
The new Accord Hybrid has more horsepower than the non-hybrid version and is quicker. Don't get me wrong, it will never replace the sound and feel of the dual Webers but it would make this car something new and appealing to the younger crowd. Think about it, in 20 years, we will all be driving them anyway, might as well build a future classic that can still be driven years down the road. If all of the weight was down low, it would be a screamer on the track.

A new X1/9 will never replace my old one, don't care what they put in it.
Brett
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Mac
Mac

March 15th, 2005, 4:41 am #10

... PRICE. If this were to be a budget sports car to make it a Hybrid would knock the price even further out of whack. Just my thought. If it were me buying, as much as I like hybrids, I would not care for this car to be one, I would want a straight forward, simple as possible (for me to work on) good old fashioned internal combustion engine. One of Fiat's most powerful 4 cylinders would be perfect imho.

Now, if they wanted to offer a hybrid version as an OPTION, hey that's another story, but as the primary offering? No. If I wanted a hybrid, I would be going for one of those Hondas you mentioned...

Peace, -Mac
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