What are you doing with nurgle?

Marandamir
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Marandamir
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Joined: Jul 29 2011, 10:26 PM

Apr 27 2018, 08:38 PM #1

Hey fellas.  I fielded nurgle in a game the other day and it was mostly demons with a spearhead detachment of death guard to get some of the blight heavy support tanks so I could have some ranged shooting.  My feel overall is there are some pretty solid combos make nurgle pretty scary.

20+ man units of plaguebearers give a -1 to hit them.  Combine this with the -1 to hit psychic power and you got a -2 to hit in both shooting and fight phases.  Scabbiathrax (while horribly overpriced) has a buff that provides an additional -1 to hit (totally of -3).  This can really frustrate your opponent's offense, especially when you factor in their durability on the shots that do hit.  usually plague bearers suffer on their own offense but the recent codex really helped them out in that regard.  While they don't have a ton of attacks they can dish out a PILE of damage.  Pop the banner for 2 damage per wound.  Virulent blessing for +1 to wound and x2 damage on wound rolls of 7+ and the nurgle loci for +1 damage on wound rolls of 6+.  That is 5 damage for a single poke from a plague marine.  Their plague weapons also give them rerolls on wounds to help ensure their pokes count.

The beasts of nurgle seem to have an obvious combo with the slimux character and sloppitty bilepiper buffs.  Bonuses to hit, creating those nurgle trees to provide advance + charge and cover.  Those beasts are pricy but they actually have weight of fire possibilities with their D6 attacks.  Plus I think there is hidden merit in their heroic intervention like a character rule.  The way that rule reads is you can do a 3" move after the opponents charge moves are over.  that means even if they make 0 charge moves you can slide into assault.  This makes beasts a very annoying harrassment unit as enemies need to stay 3.1" away otherwise they'll get pulled into combat and with the various buffs (including those mentioned for plaguebearers) I think you can get some mileage out of beasts.

The last of course is epidimus.  His tally is pretty amazing for an army wide bonus.  With the latest faq as well you are allowed to resummon him and depending on how you interpret the tally rule it may not reset (as it is set to 0 before the game) so having the tally 'removed' when he died and return when he is resummoned it may still be set to its original value (or set to nothing and is non functional?  who knows with GW rules :P).

I think there is synergy with death guard as well.  Get a 20 man plague bearer rule behind that -2 to hit plaguebearer unit and use that strategem that prevents it from being targeted.  Casually walk up the field and then wreck face with plague grenade bombardments or bubotic axe assaults from a full strength unit.  The nurgle horn can also replenish plague bearers that die as well if the character gets any kills.

I'm liking nurgle a lot more.  I do have concerns about their lack of shooting outside of death guard.  What are you guys doing with them?
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FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
Greater Daemon
Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

May 25 2018, 11:39 PM #2

I'm not surprised that you're having success with Nurgle. The recentish Codex: Chaos Daemons was imo more Codex: Nurgle than anything else imo. Of all the flavours; Nurgle (especially it's Greater Daemon) is perhaps the most effective option. Other than their Locus which imo is kinda bland. Effective against Primaris maybe, but completely overkill if you're fighting something like Hormagaunts/Termagaunts or even the humble Guardsman.

While I do like Beasts, I tend to favour the drones more. I think they're generally better at harrassment, can shoot (albeit rather averagely) and can move a surprising amount of distance too with some stacking (like starting off within Bell range). For the record as well; if you can later use some summoning shenanigans and can put them in range, they were recentlish updated with the Plaguebearer keyword for even more synergy shenanigans.

I do like the idea of the beasts though; I just don't have any of the models. I used to proxy Spawn as beasts; but the new model now is omg-huge iirc.

For my part, I'm thinking of a ld type bomb list between 1k sons and Slaanesh Daemons by making use of Mutaliths, but I'm ever so slowly pulling the models together as I used to love running Ld bomb lists back in 7th edition armybook Daemons of Chaos for fantasy (in 8th ed).
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
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Marandamir
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Marandamir
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May 29 2018, 02:17 AM #3

how does your LD bomb work?  Is it just dumping LD and forcing morale checks or are you using LD targeting attacks or something?  if it's the first you should consider the night lords as they do some pretty sick stacking leadership debuffs.  My problem with leadership morale style effects is my typical opponents play leadership strong armies.  Nids with synapse for fearless and necrons with flat LD 10 across the whole army >:<  Not sure why they got to keep it but demons lost it, but whatever.  I do see some sisters of battle on occassion but there units arne't really big enough to really hurt with morale.  If you kill 5-7 peeps out of a 10 man unit it's pretty much ruined anyway, even if the last 3 don't run away.

My latest list has been eyeballing the negative mods off plaguebearers pretty heavy.  Get a 30 man unit with a -1 to hit buff for a total of -2 to hit.  Stick a 20 man unit of plague marines with hefty buffs behind them and make them untargetable in shooting phase with the cloud of flies strategem.  Then load up the rest of the points with death guard big guns vehicles to effectively nullify the enemies anti-infantry offense.
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FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
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Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

May 29 2018, 04:07 AM #4

Both ideally, but mainly ld based attacks. The general gist is to use Mutalith's to drop leadership and then make do with leadership attacking abilities, such as Phantasmagoria + Cacophonic Choir. I do believe there is a FW Dreadnought/Contemptator weapon that plays off Leadership too but I'm not sure -i.e., don't hold me to that. I'd love to whack in Zaraynkel in there too but honestly I haven't done much in the way of actually writing a list - just busy with other things atm unfortunately.

I'm with you, morale based attacks are great in theory but there are some armies out there that kinda make it mute. At least Leadership is always something though, Termagants are only what, Ld6? With some nice stacking dropping Ld10 is possible too. It also has some synergy at least with Forbidden Gem; which imo is quite underrated if only because there is the perception is that Slaanesh is quite weak.

As to your strategy above; I think you should make them a melee squad but supplement them with the Biologus (and/or the one with the garden hose of doom) and make them your mortal wound grenade thrower squad from hell, especially since they've understandably errata'd that you can't make a squad larger than when they started (re: Poxwalkers), so Plaguebearers are imo more useful.

Ideally you'd want Nurglings too, because honestly Nurglings are incredible.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
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Marandamir
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Marandamir
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May 29 2018, 04:49 AM #5

That leadership attack seems like a good sniper combo but I've had problems trying to get combos with alot of working parts to actually be worth the effort.  Like that phantas+choir attack.  Stacking leadership penalties is not a bad idea to maximize the damage off choir.  However, it's a random 2d6 roll that will average 7 so it by default is hit or miss, even with debuffed leadership.  you can use rerolls to help but in the end you'll find you do maybe 5-7 mortal wounds.  Now that is a great yield but if you pay 150 per mutalisk plus 2 psychic powers all focused on one target, it's committing alot to net a few extra mortal wounds and morale casualties.  I took a dreadclaw drop pod with 18 berserkers, kharn, and a exalted champ once.  It was like 800 points for that combo and it was all to net a crazy berserker charge from deep strike with rerolls to hit/wound from the chars.  I played it twice and it was very disappointing.  It got off a charge and basically killed bubble wrap chaff units and tied up a few back field vehicles before getting widdled away in melee and enemy shooting.  most of the time the characters never got to assault due to being out of range or got effed up in overwatch.  I'm kinda of a mind now that the simpler the combo's the better.  Like use a mutalisk to buff a pink horror or flamer unit instead.  It's less support cost and will yield alot more damage in the long run I think.

as for the plague marines you called the strategy for the most part.  I don't take many all melee units now.  Shooting is too strong to ignore.  I would likely kit them with 2 plague launchers, a combi plas, 2 flails, and 5-8 bubotic axes.  Maybe a big cleaver to help with hard targets.  The specialty guns plus bolters can chew threw chaff as you move upfield and then when in assault the flails/axes should grind down most units.

I do still like nurglings.  However, I don't see their use post big-faq.  Without turn 1 deep strike their midfield deployment loses alot of value other than objective grabs early.  What are you doing with them?
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FeeZ
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FeeZ
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Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

May 29 2018, 04:58 AM #6

While there isn't so much Turn 1 deep strike, there are some fast movement units still out there. Slaanesh in general springs to mind, but bike armies too, renegade armies. Ever seen a 20 block of renegade legion Possessed move down the edge? It's possible for those fellows to get turn 1 charges.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
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Marandamir
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Marandamir
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May 30 2018, 03:16 AM #7

Are you forming screening lines with nurglings?  Before units like those and scouts simply gave midfield board control to prohibit deep strikers from arriving nearby.  That isn't really a thing now.  front line units can basically just move forward with a similar effect.  Now they seem like first turn midfield objective grabbers if you get first turn.  They don't really survive if they are attacked.  Maybe doing midfield 'bubble wrap' lines to prevent double move units like swarmlord or warp time from gettting first turn charges.  Then again they'd only stop it if the enemy unit didn't fly :/  Right now I pretty much just use em for detachment slot fillers cuz they are cheap and are an obsec troop choice that can infiltrate.
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FeeZ
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FeeZ
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Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

May 30 2018, 08:28 AM #8

Yeah screening lines. Nobody I think uses Nurglings to actually try and kill things, or if they do - I think they have their expectations mixed up. Even if they're used to funnel your enemy I would argue that they're fulfilling their role. The fact they can also cap mid objectives is a bonus imo.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
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Marandamir
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Marandamir
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May 30 2018, 03:42 PM #9

yeah, I can see that.  I've considered using them in numbers to build a screen line that enemies need to kill before advancing too far.  This would still allow for 2nd turn deep striking if you blocked them off from the midfield.  too bad I only own 6 nurgling bases :P
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FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
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Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

Jun 15 2018, 08:35 AM #10

Get more then!

Sorry I haven't been online for a while; I recently had my end of terms for university (finished today). Now I can actually start doing the things I enjoy again. Like read forums, and play games. For about 3 weeks, but still!

As an aside; in a death guard army I think you need those biologus guys too. The ones with the garden hose, and the one that basically cripples charging units. It's great against Slaanesh too, given that their resilience is tied to their offense (Slaanesh imo embody's the maxim the best defense is a good offense).
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
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Marandamir
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Marandamir
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Jun 19 2018, 05:39 PM #11

I feel for you.  I just finished my final for my grad school cybersecurity class on saturday.  It's nice to get a breather to relax and try to get in some nerd time.

yeah, I snagged all the characters, 2 foetid drones, and a couple blight haulers.  The plagueburst crawlers are not as easy to find since I don't paint anymore and need to get my prepainted plastic crack off ebay.

Personally I don't know why people aren't all gung ho for the plague surgeons.  Biologus guys are great for the blight gren combo but that takes CPs and bigger units.  My games against deathguard really hated on their resiliency.  Zerkers chopping up plague marines only for them to FNP it like champs really sucks to see your hard working offense negated.  Even mortal wounds and high AP guns can get shrugged off.  Rerolling 1s on those rolls is pretty cool in my opinion.
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FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
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Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

Jun 20 2018, 01:02 AM #12

I think that's their problem. It's re-rolling 1's. Of course, if it was re-rolling failed it would be borderline op I suppose (or would it? It's not as if Disgustingly Resilient was on a 4+). IIRC it's only on infantry as well too, so it can't be used on Daemon Princes or perhaps what people really want; on Morty.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
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Marandamir
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Marandamir
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Jun 20 2018, 06:29 PM #13

The plague surgeon is specific to plague marines and pox walkers I believe so it's not an auto include by any means.  However, if you are doing grenade shinanigans with a biologus then you are taking plague marines and a surgeon is worth the investment in my opinion.  While plague marines were reduced in cost they still aren't cheap so spending a few dozen points to help you pass DR rolls is still worth it, IMO.

For demon princes and morty you need epidimus.  His maxed out tally lets all nurgle demons reroll 1s on DR.  This is a HUGE buff as it's army wide and works on daemon engines like the plague burst crawler, blight hauler, and bloat drones.  The tally would also buff their toughness to make them even tougher :P

I've been working on epidimus lists but I can't seem to keep him alive.  I went so far to bubble wrap him in nurglings and hide him in a backfield ruin out of LOS and he STILL got assaulted by celestine with act of faith movement turn 1 :/  I still think he's totally worth taking as a force multiplier but I wouldn't rely on him.  Use him like morty and leverage his capabilities while he provides them but don't sweat it if he gets iced.  It's bound to happen if you get an opponent who makes it a point to kill him.
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FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
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Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

Jun 20 2018, 11:54 PM #14

I think in general you shouldn't sweat too much if things die. I feel like this version of 40K is far more lethal than previous editions. The only problem is of course Greater Daemons which are pathetic this edition. Even if they were dropped by 100 points, they'd still be more expensive, less killy and more killable than Daemon Princes, which is a bit of a problem imo.

The other reason to take Nurgle Daemons detachment with your morty/plaguecrawlers is of course the spell that allows you to heal your stuff. Including Morty. Of course, I doubt the healing you'd get is anywhere remotely useful compared to the amount of heat mortarion naturally brings to the table, but it might count for something. But hell, if your Morty is getting focussed, then hopefully the rest of your army is unmolested.

So how do you deal with 3x obliterator drops killing your coolest unit? Maybe my battlefields just need more terrain?
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
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Marandamir
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Marandamir
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Jun 29 2018, 09:05 PM #15

My opponents don't really have deep strike oblits, but I typically avoid deep strike shinanigans in my back field by sticking a couple 10 man units of chaff in the backfield in a config that blocks off any deep strike space.  This forces drop shooty units to land in the midfield in front of my lines and alot of the time out of ranges of my backfield units.
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