FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
Greater Daemon
Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

Jun 30 2018, 11:53 PM #16

Yeah, I do that too, but I was speaking more about if they drop down to slaughter Morty. But then again, they can't really do that in turn 1 anymore. In a sense, that's awesome, but it truly screws assault armies like daemon khorne because; well, they're as brittle as slaanesh for the most part but not nearly as speedy.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
Quote
Like
Share

Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Joined: Jul 29 2011, 10:26 PM

Jul 3 2018, 06:46 PM #17

fatty targets like morty, magnus, or knights are all succeptible to turn 1 shooting hate and unfortunatly just need to protect your backfield and weather the storm.  I've never seen morty in a position where enemies cannot get LOS on him with his silly wings and other bits sticking out around corners.  So just understand he'll get shot at and just cover the gaps where you can.  You can invest in support units like the deathshroud terminators to soak hits for morty or buff him with defensive psyker powers to help weather the storm.

Khorne armies are at a disadvantage.  Their deep strike options costs command points so you cannot 'bloodletter bomb' everything.  You need to field units and they will get shot up.  I remember losing a 6 man unit of bloodcrushers to a devil-gaunt blob one game.  90 S4 shots got 18 wounds through and my entire elite unit evaporated in an instant.  It's unfortunately just  day in the life of a khorne demon.  Your best hope with them is LOS blocking terrain and using deep strike shinanigans in combination with positioning tactics to force hard target priority decisions on your opponent.
Quote
Like
Share

FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
Greater Daemon
Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

Jul 4 2018, 12:25 AM #18

Damn, I was hoping there was some hidden secret I wasn't aware of lol.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
Quote
Like
Share

Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Joined: Jul 29 2011, 10:26 PM

Jul 5 2018, 02:28 AM #19

It's not really a secret but you can out maneuver your opponent if you are careful.  The last game I had a 30 man unit of bletters facing off against a 30 man unit of devilgaunts.  I was pretty sure the bletters were dead facing 90 shots and another 90 on overwatch.  However, I had some LOS blocking terrain that I advanced some hounds into to prep for an assault.  I charged with the hounds while advancing with the bletters to ensure they got a charge next turn.  The hounds didn't die to the 90 overwatch shots and got into assault and stopped the devilgaunts from shooting next turn.  The fell back and I charged with the bletters with the 3d6 strategem banner and reroll charge buff from the khorne detachment.  I used the +1 to invuln saves strategem to weather the overwatch and I got into assault and carved the unit up like a turkey.  I also used a 30 man bletter bomb to alpha assault 20 genestealers turn 2 and wiped them out as well.

Khorne has a really good offensive payload.  A 30 man unit of bletters statistically can kill an imperial knight :P  They are just weak in durability and delivery of said payload.  The key then is to maximize your delivery opportunities using tactical positioning, using the strategem banners, sacrificing units when needed, and getting the charges off.  Once you get into grips and hostage a few models to prevent them falling back you can do well with khorne.  It just sucks that most other armies do well without having to struggle with delivery shinanigans :(
Quote
Like
Share

Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Joined: Jul 29 2011, 10:26 PM

Jul 5 2018, 04:47 AM #20

I've been reading alot about hoard armies doing really well in the current meta and my buddy reinforced that by doing well with ork spam at a FLGS tourney.  I took some inspiration from him and considered a demon hoard army.  All the basic troops are 7 pts each and pretty comparable to an ork.  I think I would use bloodletters though because their offensive payload (killyness) is so much better than the other troop options.  Plaguebearers have potential with stacking +damage buffs but their low attacks, AP0, and WS 4 just limits their offense too much.  Bloodletters who get into grips with stuff kill it, plain and simple.

Now, bletters aren't as good at hoarding like orks are due to morale.  However, I think they will still work out due to other strengths.  The deep strike strategem is a big one as you don't have to foot slog every unit across the map.  Their invuln save is nice to have as orks typically don't get a save at all.  You can get 90 bletters and 2 heralds for around 800-900 points.  Take 2 of those batallions and you still got a few hundred points to play with, 13 command points, and 180 blood letters with strength buffing heralds :P

Bloodletters in mass I think can be pretty scary.  They can kill nearly anything as they wound T7-T9 on 5s and 180 wounds is kinda hard to chew through when they got a 5++.  The biggest problem is obviously morale.  You can take icons but other than that maybe save 2 or 4 command points to auto pass a couple of doomed morale checks.
Quote
Like
Share

FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
Greater Daemon
Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

Jul 18 2018, 10:01 AM #21

Marandamir wrote:
Now, bletters aren't as good at hoarding like orks are due to morale.  However, I think they will still work out due to other strengths.  The deep strike strategem is a big one as you don't have to foot slog every unit across the map.  Their invuln save is nice to have as orks typically don't get a save at all.  You can get 90 bletters and 2 heralds for around 800-900 points.  Take 2 of those batallions and you still got a few hundred points to play with, 13 command points, and 180 blood letters with strength buffing heralds :P

Bloodletters in mass I think can be pretty scary.  They can kill nearly anything as they wound T7-T9 on 5s and 180 wounds is kinda hard to chew through when they got a 5++.  The biggest problem is obviously morale.  You can take icons but other than that maybe save 2 or 4 command points to auto pass a couple of doomed morale checks.
Apologies for super lateness... again. Uni has started back up so I once again find myself with little in the way of free time.

If you're deadset about anti-horde, I think Daemonette's are a better choice to be honest. I know very controversial and probably easy to dismiss; but Letters hit hard on the first turn, but then really taper off I've found, whereas Daemonette's maintain a level of consistency, especially if they're maintained in big blocks. The Strength difference imo is somewhat marginal (how many horde units are T7-9?) and the regularity of wounds imo is a good threat even against Custodes in my experience. The best thing about bletters imo is the deep strike strategem, but now you can't do that in the first turn anyway. Chewing through 180 wounds of Daemonette's is as hard as chewing through 180 wounds of letters too. Better still, with character support; they're easier to get into position now due to Slaanesh locus, and aura of acquiecence can really screw with ork armies too. Of course; much less effective against Termagants, but still.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
Quote
Like
Share

Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Joined: Jul 29 2011, 10:26 PM

Aug 2 2018, 08:23 PM #22

I found an interesting combo for Nurgle and death guard.  Chaos demon strategems don't work on death guard due to the erratta restricting them only to data sheets that have demon in the faction line, not the keyword line.  This omits most of the heretic astartes style armies.

Good news, though, is all other abilities affect them just fine.  So, The Myphitic Blight Hauler is a nurgle demon and is one of the few datasheets that is taken as a squadron but does NOT separate into their own units once deployed.  The combo is you take a Great Unclean One with a doomsday bell and stay near the squadron.  The doomsday bell gives the GUO an aura that returns a slain model to a nurgle demon unit on a 4+.  This will restore a dead blight hauler with full wounds on a 4+ and you get the roll every turn.

Synergizes very well with other combos of death guard.  The hauler squadron itself gives cover to death guard infantry so those plague marines are now 2+ armor saves in the open.  Also the squadron itself gets +1 to hit when it has 3+ models in it.  This can help keep the unit above the buff threshold and keep it dishing out its ranged damage.  Plus the existence of this combo makes attacking the hauler unit nearly pointless while the GUO is still alive.  This means those haulers will last longer and force enemies to target the GUO, which is not that threatening until it gets into close combat.  The combo also works on all nurgle demon units so you can bring back codex demon models as well like plague drones, plague toads, or beasts of nurgle.

Very cool :)
Quote
Like
Share

Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Marandamir
Bloodcrusher
Joined: Jul 29 2011, 10:26 PM

Aug 2 2018, 11:19 PM #23

Another recent combo I've seen with nurgle is cranking up the damage on a death guard demon prince by stacking buffs on him.  Here is the basics:

Nurgle demon prince with +1 FNP warlord trait and suppernating plate relic (2+/5++ with 4+ FNP & character protection)
Hellforged Sword for AP -2 and 3 damage base (or could do double malfic for 2 base plus extra attacks.)
Nurgle Discipline Virulent Blessing (+1 to wound, wound rolls of 7+ do double damage)
Contagion Discipline Blades of Putrefaction (+1 to wound, other part don't work due to no plague weapon)
Locus of Virulence (+1 damage on wound rolls of 6+)

There are other amazing buffs but that is the basics.  This gives 4 sword attacks plus 1 for his malfic talons (or go double malfic talons for 7 attacks).  S7 wounds medium armor on 4s, MEQ on 3s, and GEQ on 2s.  You get +2 to the wound roll so your damage scales based on what you roll on the wound roll:
1 = miss
2 = Wound T7 or lower, inflict normal damage (3 for sword, 2 for malfic talon)
3 = Wound T8-T13, normal damage (as above)
4 = Wounds, +1 damage from Locus (4 for sword, 3 for malfic)
5+ = Wounds, double damage from Virulent blessing, +1 damage for Locus (7 for sword, 5 for malfic)

So there you have it.  I originally thought Veterens of the long war strategem worked but its infantry only :(  Still, with the combos you are hitting on 2s with rerolls, and wounding pretty much on a 2+ with 5+s doing damage similiar to titanic weapons.  I think I'd go with malfic as more attacks means more changes to get 5+s.  Plus you also have the durability of the prince as well.  T6 with 2+/5++/4+++ and character protection is a hard nut to crack.  You also have access to multiple D3 heal sources as well from both demons and death guard stuff to help keep him alive.  The damage is high enough on the high end wound rolls that you can take be serious threats to hard targets like knights and possibly even durable enough to tank them.
Quote
Like
Share

FeeZ
Greater Daemon
FeeZ
Greater Daemon
Joined: Jun 13 2011, 10:26 AM

Aug 11 2018, 12:21 AM #24

Marandamir wrote: Another recent combo I've seen with nurgle is cranking up the damage on a death guard demon prince by stacking buffs on him.  Here is the basics:

Nurgle demon prince with +1 FNP warlord trait and suppernating plate relic (2+/5++ with 4+ FNP & character protection)
Hellforged Sword for AP -2 and 3 damage base (or could do double malfic for 2 base plus extra attacks.)
Nurgle Discipline Virulent Blessing (+1 to wound, wound rolls of 7+ do double damage)
Contagion Discipline Blades of Putrefaction (+1 to wound, other part don't work due to no plague weapon)
Locus of Virulence (+1 damage on wound rolls of 6+)

There are other amazing buffs but that is the basics.  This gives 4 sword attacks plus 1 for his malfic talons (or go double malfic talons for 7 attacks).  S7 wounds medium armor on 4s, MEQ on 3s, and GEQ on 2s.  You get +2 to the wound roll so your damage scales based on what you roll on the wound roll:
1 = miss
2 = Wound T7 or lower, inflict normal damage (3 for sword, 2 for malfic talon)
3 = Wound T8-T13, normal damage (as above)
4 = Wounds, +1 damage from Locus (4 for sword, 3 for malfic)
5+ = Wounds, double damage from Virulent blessing, +1 damage for Locus (7 for sword, 5 for malfic)

So there you have it.  I originally thought Veterens of the long war strategem worked but its infantry only :(  Still, with the combos you are hitting on 2s with rerolls, and wounding pretty much on a 2+ with 5+s doing damage similiar to titanic weapons.  I think I'd go with malfic as more attacks means more changes to get 5+s.  Plus you also have the durability of the prince as well.  T6 with 2+/5++/4+++ and character protection is a hard nut to crack.  You also have access to multiple D3 heal sources as well from both demons and death guard stuff to help keep him alive.  The damage is high enough on the high end wound rolls that you can take be serious threats to hard targets like knights and possibly even durable enough to tank them.
I never really saw the point of taking anything but malefic talons on things barring Khorne Daemon Princes (where you take the 6+ To Wounds becoming mortal wounds axe). Talons just outperform in almost all situations.
Special thanks to Kerrygan for the avatar pic!
Quote
Like
Share