Barack Obama

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Barack Obama

Joined: 10 Jan 2009, 11:17

20 Jan 2009, 17:58 #1

!Yay! George Bush is finally out of the white house and Barak is in.

I think this is a very good thing. Barak sounds good at the very least.

Just wanted to know what every one thought about the new President

Thanks
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gjnoronh
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20 Jan 2009, 18:19 #2

My first thought is that you should spell his name correctly - thread title corrected :)

I'm quite excited and hopeful - he has the potential to be the best american president in my lifetime - but he's also going to spend much of his presidency dealing with the international financial crisis, and the US's involvement in two wars at once.
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oinky
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20 Jan 2009, 19:28 #3

Here in Europe he is very popular.I think he will be a very good president.I only hope people don't expect he can change things in a short time.But in the long run it's going to be great.

Greetings from Belgium

Oinky ;)
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Feuermann
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20 Jan 2009, 19:37 #4

In spain is very popular too, except right-wing politicians, who don't want a new economic system

Here we have other problems with crisis, because the spanish economyc system was based on inmobiliary speculation.






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Negativemoney
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21 Jan 2009, 16:13 #5

I find him to be a straw man. That is that there is no substance to him or anything he has done. He was elected to the presidency through fear and a desire to have something that was not the norm. If there were a highering manager for the position of President of the United States, his resume would not even been looked at.

His plans and proposals for helping the economy will do more harm than good. Almost every financial expert I have talked to is saying that his plans will prolong this recession though they will prevent a depression.

Spending is not the way out. The only way we as a capitalistic country can emerge from this successfully is for the Government to back out of business and let the Free Market work it self out. The market can fix it self but it needs to learn how to walk on its own two feet again. Right now the Government is providing a wheelchair and band aids to corporate America, which is not what we need.

Only time will tell.

On a final note.

Obama is a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch (Lord of Change)!
I am T.F.G.

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MTF8
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21 Jan 2009, 16:30 #6

Negativemoney @ Jan 21 2009, 11:13 AM wrote:I find him to be a straw man. That is that there is no substance to him or anything he has done. He was elected to the presidency through fear and a desire to have something that was not the norm. If there were a highering manager for the position of President of the United States, his resume would not even been looked at.

His plans and proposals for helping the economy will do more harm than good. Almost every financial expert I have talked to is saying that his plans will prolong this recession though they will prevent a depression.

Spending is not the way out. The only way we as a capitalistic country can emerge from this successfully is  for the Government to back out of business and let the Free Market work it self out. The market can fix it self but it needs to learn how to walk on its own two feet again. Right now the Government is providing a wheelchair and band aids to corporate America, which is not what we need.
Who are you talking about here? Obama? Bush?

To think that Obama was elected thru fear and bush was not means that you really dont have a good grasp on what is going on. Bush has done nothing but fear mongering and saber rattling since 9/11. Bush has spent TRILLIONS of dollars on the current economic crisis and we have gotten nowhere. Also, whatever the government is doing "right now" is a direct result of the choices and leadership of the Bush Administration. You need to get some better information and stop listening to a single biased source of information.

Bush was elected thru fear, and on the opposite end Obama was elected thru hope. Obama would most likely not have been elected if it wasnt for the tragedy that is the Bush Administration.

Now I do like Obama, and his speeches do move and inspire me, but he hasn't acutally done anything yet, so its hard for me to get too excited. I also think that making speeches that move and inspire the greater part of the U.S.A. is a VERY important part of being a president.
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Negativemoney
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21 Jan 2009, 18:23 #7

MTF8 @ Jan 21 2009, 11:30 AM wrote: To think that Obama was elected thru fear and bush was not means that you really dont have a good grasp on what is going on. Bush has done nothing but fear mongering and saber rattling since 9/11. Bush has spent TRILLIONS of dollars on the current economic crisis and we have gotten nowhere. Also, whatever the government is doing "right now" is a direct result of the choices and leadership of the Bush Administration. You need to get some better information and stop listening to a single biased source of information.
The people of this country were afraid that McCain was going to be another 4 years of Bush. Obama took advantage of that and ran with it. If it wasn't for McCain's statement that "The fundamentals of our economy are strong" and how that backfired on him, he would have won the election. That moment was the real change in the way the election went.

Bush has spent $350 billion thus far on the economy, not Trillions, and Obama had asked Bush to go to Congress to get the other $350 billion. Yes this has done nothing, but it is a plan that Obama SUPPORTED. Now he wants to get another $850 Billion for Projects that should be the responsibility of the States to fix.

The Bush Deficit came from mismanagement of the Prolonged engagement in Iraq and uncharacteristically Liberal Spending by a Conservative Congress and Executive Branch.
The solution to our problem is to spend less and save more. We need to Stratiegicly withdraw from Iraq and finish in Afghanistan. Once we have spending under control and our economy sorts it self out we will be in good shape. Until then we need be mindful of our jobs and spend our money wisely.
I am T.F.G.

"Look at the world and tell me the joys of sanity!"

"Do you know that every time someone uses the word 'fluff' instead of 'background', a kitten dies?" - Gav Thorpe

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MTF8
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21 Jan 2009, 19:32 #8

Negativemoney @ Jan 21 2009, 01:23 PM wrote: The people of this country were afraid that McCain was going to be another 4 years of Bush. Obama took advantage of that and ran with it. If it wasn't for McCain's statement that "The fundamentals of our economy are strong" and how that backfired on him, he would have won the election. That moment was the real change in the way the election went.
So that is the only reason why McCain lost? Obama won because he is an inspirational speaker and ran the first ever successful bottom-up campaign. Even the fury of the Clinton political machine couldn't put a dent in the persona of his campaign.
Bush has spent $350 billion thus far on the economy, not Trillions, and Obama had asked Bush to go to Congress to get the other $350 billion.
The $350 billion that the mass media is in a frenzy over is but one of many bailouts. If you look it up and add them all together you get a number close to $1.8 Trillion, including the bank bailout.
The solution to our problem is to spend less and save more.
This is how capitalism dies, not thrives.
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The Dark Lord
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21 Jan 2009, 22:41 #9

I like him. :)
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gjnoronh
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22 Jan 2009, 00:45 #10

As MTF8 points out while anti bushism certainly hurt the Republican party Obama was also one of the most exciting candidates we've seen in years. Listen to the guy speak - it's hard to deny that he has a vision for America.

This is the same charisma that catapulted Reagan, and Clinton during my lifetime to their presidency. You can argue whether or not charisma made them better presidents - but it was a factor in their success. Reagan in particular really lacked details in his campaign speeches - but like Obama the American people believed in his ability to lead the country. However lets drop the charisma issue - it's clearly been important to succesful presidencies but it's not all any of us would want in a president.

You can disagree with Obama's policies - but it's hard to argue with appointing internationally respected economists, and scientists to those key posts in his administration. I don't know what McCain would have done (and I think he might have done as well) but the Bush appointees were conspicously absent scientists or leading lights in their fields in some cases they were literally tragic as in the FEMA director whose previous job experience was apparently the administration of horse racing on a state level.

I actually have a great deal of respect for McCain - though the McCain we saw in 08 was not the McCain of the 2000 election cycle (who was nastily stabbed in the back by the Bush political machine that year by the way with allegations of mixed race love children fathered out of wedlock.)

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editor ... _campaign/

The 2008 McCain ran as a much more 'traditional' republican than fiscally conservative socially independent, anti government waste platform he took in 2000 and during his senatorial campaign. If the 2000 McCain ran he'd have had a better chance with the moderates who voted Obama - he might have lost some of the bible thumping / big business far right that did vote him. (As an aside one of the interesting things that came out of this election is how much the current republican party looks like the democratic party of the eighties and nineties - a coalition of disparate groups without significant ideological ties to each other.)

Regarding fear though - Palin was the real polarizer.

Her entry into the race gave McCain credentials with the far religious right - and drove the moderates away who were still on the fence. She bought him votes and lost him votes at the same time just on different parts of the political spectrum.

Fear of a possible president Sarah Palin (with an old McCain with history of a concerning cancer) was what turned folks who in september were probably going to vote Obama into folks who ardently campaigned on his behalf.

For a really interesting read from a very fiscally conservative publication with the best political analysis I read - check out the Economists coverage of the campaign and Obama. (The Economist is a very highly respected political/econimical news magazine based in England- they have a nice website to check out) They were actually somewhat suprised on their own part that they endorsed Obama in the campaign.
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Des
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22 Jan 2009, 12:10 #11

I have hope that he might be able to implement many of his intended policies (despite them being somewhat vague). It is a tall task though; much needs to be done and the power to change things does not rest wholly within his hands. Incidentaly, I respect John McCain as a person, despite not agreeing with the majority of his policies, and I think he managed a credible finish considering the groundswell of discontent his party was on the end of.

Hopefully this election can be a catalyst that dimisnishes the power of Friedmanism as an economic force. It is a force that has built an outwardly attractive looking structure on top of a swamp, and this is now becoming apparent to the world. 50 years of exploiting the poor and corroberating with undemocratic regimes so a bunch of suits can get very rich has left us in this mess. I hardly think this is a time to ask the people to back off and let these swindlers have another crack at it. I think everyone has heard someone remark in their life time something along the lines of "communism was great at the theory level but couldn't withstand application in the real world". I'd say pure capitialism, or any overly forceful capitalist theory is liable to the same charges.

As far as I am concerned Obama's greatest test is how he directs the economy in the coming months and years. I sincerely hope he curtails the excesses of recent years and brings in some worthy regulation.
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AGPO
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23 Jan 2009, 16:16 #12

Negativemoney @ Jan 21 2009, 11:13 AM wrote: I find him to be a straw man. That is that there is no substance to him or anything he has done. He was elected to the presidency through fear and a desire to have something that was not the norm. If there were a highering manager for the position of President of the United States, his resume would not even been looked at.

His plans and proposals for helping the economy will do more harm than good. Almost every financial expert I have talked to is saying that his plans will prolong this recession though they will prevent a depression.

Spending is not the way out. The only way we as a capitalistic country can emerge from this successfully is for the Government to back out of business and let the Free Market work it self out. The market can fix it self but it needs to learn how to walk on its own two feet again. Right now the Government is providing a wheelchair and band aids to corporate America, which is not what we need.
Before you comment on Obama's substance, you should actuall yread his books and not just comment on the three second soundbites you pick up from the news. Much of what Obama proposes is revolutionary for politics, and he has a real insight into the social and economic issues affecting you. He was elected to the presidency because he is a genuinely inspiring figure who has run a campaign from the bottom up, rather than relying on rich donors. No other US politician has managed to rally such extraordinary levels of support.

I don't know which economic 'experts' you've been listening to, but clearly you've misunderstood them. For a market to "sort itself out" it needs, um... spending. Without a strong circular flow of income markets do not function and the positive multipliers needed for growth don't happen. Even Greenspan recognises this, as the high priest of libertarian free market capitalists. From your second post you also clearly misunderstand the term 'liberal', which concerns a political and economic philosophy involving minimal state intervention. Interventionist spending maybe.

@ Des - I see we are of one ind of Friedman. The worst possible outcome of this crisis would be that the people who caused it come out unpunished and free to continue the same as always in a consequence free environment
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Trogdor
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23 Jan 2009, 16:48 #13

I don't identify with any particular party, but I do tend to lean away from the liberal right. I felt that Obama becoming president was pretty inevitable. Too many things came together for Obama (including running an amazing campaign) to form such a perfect storm that there wasn't any doubt that we would see him in the White House.

He's a great speaker and very charismatic and that makes a good politician. Making big promises is also what a good politician does. I have to view him with a skeptical eye at this point. Of course he's new so there's no way to pass any kind of judgment just yet. I hope he can deliver on most of what he is expected to do. There has just been so much hype and build up of the man that it sets up some pretty high (maybe unrealistic) expectations.

As far as the economic crisis goes, the biggest factor IMO is "lack of confidence". People are unsure of their jobs, people are unsure of their investments and retirement. Creditors are unsure if people will default on loans. Right now anyone that has some money is sitting on it and that fear is paralyzing the economy. The news agencies only enhance this fear with non-stop reports of poor earnings by nearly all large companies, more jobs lost, special reports on people losing their houses, and it goes on and on and on. If we can get some positive news going and do something to restore some "confidence" then the market can right itself. As long as fear is as pervasive as it is right now, it is a long uphill battle that the government can throw billions of dollars at without treating the cause. But Obama has shown that he can inspire and that might just be what we need right now.

Bottom line is I'm hopeful and yet skeptical. Wait and see is what I'll be doing for the next little while.
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CheTralfara
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31 Jan 2009, 17:11 #14

So now that Obama...

...has endorsed and supported the genocide in Gaza...

...killed over 20 civillians in his first bombing of Pakistan (an act of war, as there was no agreement between the US and Pakistani leaders to for this bombing that MAY have killed 1 "POSSIBLE" al-queda affliated person)...

...says he is sending more troops to Afghanistan (regardless of the fact that California is now broke and issuing "IOU checks" to it's citizens!)...

...currently has the US military positioning to act as a law enforcement INSIDE THE US, despite this being named explicitly illegal by the constitution (see: posse comitatus)...

...is pushing yet another trillion dollar bailout, despite economic experts equating these bailouts as "pouring kerosine on an already raging fire"...

...the latest bailout also includes giving 4 billion to increasing the size of the already massive US police state and continuing the colossal destructive failure that is the so-called "war on drugs"...

...has appointed Rahm Emmanuel (the son of an actual terrorist) as Chief Of Staff, who has already introduced OVER 6 anti-gun bills, including a new law that gives Obama-appointed "Attorney General" Eric Holder the power to declare guns are illegal by his decree (in other words, he can announce they are illegal, and it will be so... despite that being in complete contradiction to the constitution, and thus, a null and void law/illegal) ... Keeping in mind that Eric Holder is the same guy who openly lobbied the supreme court for a nation-wide TOTAL 100% GUN BAN for anyone who isn't military or law enforcement...

...these laws include (amongst other nightmares) jail-time for anyone who doesn't report their firearm stolen within the first 24 hours (My uncle had his gun stolen from his home by a worker, and didn't even realize it until the gun had been used in an armed robbery! Should he be arrested?)... and the REQUIREMENT that you "voluntarily" surrender your medical records to the government (since they can't obtain them without your permission) in order to obtain your brand new Gun License.

... so now that Obama has DONE ALL THIS in how many days so far???

...and the cherry on top! is pushing a bill that effectively authorizes CIVILIAN DETENTION CAMPS "in the case of a national emergency" as a part of the Pentagon's "Civillian Inmate Labor Program", better known as FEMA Camps (or even better known as American Concentration Camps), to be built on military installations (despite these camps already existing and being well documented, though denied all the way up until now)...

...don't forget that the president can now declare the country in a state of national emergency AT HIS WHIM, and can "officially" circumvent ALL branches of government and take total control of the United States, placing us under an official dictatorship, as per the executive order that Bush introduced.

...don't forget that we are in the middle of an economic meltdown that could cause the collapse of the dollar which could cause rioting far worse than has already happened in Iceland and Greece... providing the perfect national emergency for the martial law apparatus to round us up into detention facilities "to help us", and "for our own good"....

So with all that, do you really still think Obama represents "Hope" and "Change"?

All of this, kinda cancels out that 1 closing GITMO thing... don't ya think?

If you don't believe me, you can google everything that I've mentioned, and find more information than you'd ever care to need on the terrible things happening all around us that obama-worshipping media that proclaims obama as "the one" and "the president of the world" won't show you.

But it really is important you read about the concentration/fema camps especially.

.nick

p.s. wolf in sheep's clothing anyone?
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Finnigan2004
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31 Jan 2009, 18:00 #15

CheTralfara @ Jan 31 2009, 12:11 PM wrote: p.s. wolf in sheep's clothing anyone?
On the bright side, he had to skin the real wolves to get there. ;) I'm more than happy to see the backside of Bush and the Republican majorities. They were too extremist in my opinion, and scary and amoral in many ways. I think prison planet is a fun and funny site for under reported news, but their analysis is always a little too conspiracy theorist for my liking.

I suspect that Obama will make an attempt to govern from the center, and time will tell how effective he will be at that. He is an inspirational figure with the common sense to select a cabinet from a broad base of viewpoints. He could be great, and he inspires hope-- something that is very important to people at this time.

For the time being, it's reassuring to me to have someone that I think is at the very least as smart as me in charge of the American nuclear arsenal.

Ken
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