Why was the Russian jet shot down? Answer to Attila80

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Joined: March 26th, 2009, 1:17 am

January 2nd, 2018, 8:46 pm #21

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

"I wish you guys would provide a straightforward answer, like "Feto did it" or "Tayip did it". But I can understand why you try to evade the topic.. . 😁 "



Because no one knows you moron! :D
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January 3rd, 2018, 1:46 am #22

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

^^


You are disappointing me my friend.

You are so smart that you know all about the "Great Middle Eastern Project" the dark top secret plan of the global elites to screw Turkey and reshape the political map if the Middle East, and you don't know who gave the order to shoot down the Russian jet? 😆😆😆

Here for is your dilemma:

If you say "Feto did it" you 've got to explain why Tayip didn't arrest the pilot immediately afterwards. The excuse that "he didn't want to give the impression that he didn't control the military" is pure BULLSHIIT.
By November 2015 Tayip had prevailed over the military and had jailed several top Generals over the Balyoz plan conspiracy. So it was already known that there were elements in the military conspiring against the Government, but Tayip was hunting them down. It would not be a problem to admit another conspiracy. On the contrary, it would allow him to fix the relations with Russia instantly.

And of course all Turks here will look like clowns because they were dancing with joy when the Russian jet was shot down. After July 2016 they are like "ups, sorry, we didn't mean it, the Russians were right, but it was not us, it was Feto".


If you say "Tayip did it", it is even worse. Tayip fvcked a pilot, an officer of the Air Force who just carried out his orders, and nobody in Turkey said anything about it, because everyone wanted the relations with Russia fixed and the Russian embargo abolished. Which shows what a spineless, dishonest and dishonourable reptile the Turk is.......
Last edited by GavurYunan on January 3rd, 2018, 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 26th, 2009, 1:17 am

January 3rd, 2018, 2:07 am #23

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

You are disappointing me my friend.

That's only because you have ridiculous expectations.


You are so smart that you know all about the "Great Middle Eastern Project" the dark top secret plan of the global elites to screw Turkey and reshape the political map if the Middle East, and you don't know who gave the order to shoot down the Russian jet? 😆😆😆

Seriously is this what passes for logic with you? Did you actually sit there and think you raised a good point? I know about the plan I don't know step by step details on how it is going to be executed or by who.. if I did I would be rich or dead :D


Here for is your dilemma:

If you say "Feto did it" you 've got to explain why Tayip didn't arrest the pilot immediately afterwards. The excuse that "he didn't want to give the impression that he didn't control the military" is pure BULLSHIIT.

By November 2015 Tayip had prevailed over the military and had jailed several top Generals over the Balyoz plan conspiracy. So it was already known that there were elements in the military conspiring against the Government, but Tayip was hunting them down. It would not be a problem to admit another conspiracy. On the contrary, it would allow him to fix the relations with Russia instantly.


Of course it would be a problem, it would make him look very weak.


And of course all Turks here will look like clowns because they were dancing with joy when the Russian jet was shot down. After July 2016 they are like "ups, sorry, we didn't mean it, the Russians were right, but it was not us, it was Feto".


Lol, more of your delusion. Many Turks were happy about it, including myself. However there were also many that though twe had just doomed ourselves. You Greeks, you wait til a couple Turks say what you want to hear then you tell yourselves "All Turks are like this", it is ridiculously stupid.


If you say "Tayip did it", it is even worse. Tayip fvcked a pilot, an officer of the Air Force who just carried out his orders, and nobody in Turkey said anything about it, because everyone wanted the relations with Russia fixed and the Russian embargo abolished. Which shows what a spineless, dishonest and dishonourable reptile the Turk is.......

Yes mate, Turks are a monolithic people with a hive mind, we all think and feel the same. All TUrks wanted improved relations with Russia, All TUrks were ok with the pilot being jailed... You are lucky you are entertaining or else I wouldn't grace you with my responses :D
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January 3rd, 2018, 2:19 am #24

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

Of course it would be a problem, it would make him look very weak.
---------------------------------

Why? It was already known that a large part of the military was conspiring against him (Balyoz trials). Revelation of another conspiracy would not make any difference.
Last edited by GavurYunan on January 3rd, 2018, 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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January 3rd, 2018, 2:28 am #25

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

Balyoz was from 2003, the suspects were released in 2015. To outward appearances the military was supposed to be under control.

I'm really having trouble believing that you think it would be no big deal for Tayip to admit right after the incident that he had no control over shooting down a Russian jet.


But just to be clear, I do think it was Tayip who gave the order, or at least knew about it if Davutoglu did it. I do think that Tayip and politicians in general are reptile scum bags who would betray their own mothers let alone their people and nation.
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January 3rd, 2018, 3:07 am #26

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

OK, now we are getting somewhere. So Tayip gave the order. Or at least, every man of common sense has strong reasons to suspect that he did.


Now question is: Why nobody in Turkey cared about it ? Why nobody demanded a fair trial for the pilot, and presentation of existing evidence against him?

Why nobody asked Tayip the hard questions? Why nobody said "Wait a minute Tayip,you were telling us a different story in November 2015, now explain the contradiction" ?

Answer: Because everybody was happy to see Russian sanctions removed after the massive damage they caused to the economy. And people liked Tayip's funny excuses. And swallowed them. The pilot who was a hero now became a traitor and a convenient scapegoat. These were the very people who were bragging "Look, we mighty Turks shot down a Russian jet".


Personally I have no sympathy for the pilot. I am glad he is in prison. He ambushed and shot the Russian jet from behind, after it had left the Turkish airspace, which it had entered by mistake for just 17 seconds. It was an act of cowardice. But the fact is, he carried out an order. Tayip's order........
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January 3rd, 2018, 4:16 am #27

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

erdogan shot it down.

If the russians were not willing to capitulate on the issue of a Turkish incursion into syria to protect vital interests, then there would be no reapproach.

Erdogan has always looked to avoid confrontation with putin provided putin does not attack Turkish interests. When putin has attacked Turkish interests you have seen erdogan retaliate.

Just the other day when putin invited the pkk to talks erdogan called Assad a terrorist that has no place in future syria.


Erdogans approach with russia has always been tit for tat.


Erodgans aim is to avoid conflict with russia, for him conflict with russia can come later on a more equal footing. For the Russians they cant allow Turkey to become strong because that will be nightmare for them. They are already seeing what Turkey is doing in georgia, azerbaijan and the Turkic nations, not to mention the immediate balkans. We can also see a plan from erdogan to create a greater islamic nation across the middle east. For now these things are long away, for the russians the very idea of it has to be stopped.

Now what gets said in politics is just the flavour of the moment.

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Joined: December 7th, 2012, 3:28 pm

January 3rd, 2018, 4:21 am #28

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

Its a shame that there isnt more discussion in the geopolitics threads i have at times created on here. Because if you understand the politics of geography you can predit 90% of what will or wont happen on the international stage.
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Joined: December 31st, 2011, 12:20 pm

January 3rd, 2018, 5:37 am #29

Coup Attempt Clears Way for Turkish-Russian Rapprochement


Turkey has radically revised its position on why a Russian jet was shot down last year, much to Moscow’s appreciation.

By Catherine Putz

July 27, 2016

The news in late June that Russia and Turkey were making noticeable moves toward repairing relations damaged last year when a Russian jet was shot down by Turks along the border with Syria was overshadowed by a terrorist attack at the Istanbul airport on June 28. Unrelated as the two events were, the news cycle quickly spun away from the diplomatic re-engagement between Ankara and Moscow.

Still, the softening of tensions between the two countries seems to have accelerated following the coup attempt on July 15.

Amid the swirl of details and rumors about the coup attempt was an interesting anecdote: the pilots involved in the shooting down of the Russian Su-24 on November 24, 2015 had apparently been among the coup-staging faction. On July 19 a Turkish official told journalists, “Two pilots who were part of the operation to down the Russian Su-24 in November 2015 are in custody.”

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.

Ankara quickly laid blame for the coup at the feet of Fethullah Gülen, an exiled cleric and founder of a transnational social and religious movement that sponsors schools, business associations, and cultural programs around the world. According to the mayor of Ankara, Melih Gokcek, in an interview with CNN, the pilots were Gulenists. His comments, noted by Al Jazeera, referenced the so-called parallel state Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan says Gülen has created. Gokcek blamed “the parallels” for the spike in Russian-Turkish tensions. “That incident [the downing of the Russian plane] was orchestrated by a pilot who belongs to the parallel state,” he said. “I say this one hundred percent. We were not voicing this before, we were gulping this down… But, now I say this, as Melih Gokcek, these rascals caused the rift between Russia and us.”

“Why? Because they wanted to isolate us in world politics. Yesterday I had a guest from Russia, an adviser for Putin. He agrees with me,” Gokcek said.

This week, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Simsek told journalists that the decision to shoot down the Russian jet “was taken personally by the pilot.”

“Turkey has no hostile feelings to Russia, and will never have,” he continued, according to TASS.

Turkey’s present position–which appears to be that the pilots acted on their own and that the November downing of the Russian jet was part of a wider Gulenist conspiracy–is quite a far distance from the position it maintained regarding the shoot down for the past seven months.

After the incident, which took place along the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkish officials stridently argued that their pilots had acted within the declared rules of engagement.

Turkey and Russia traded barbed letters over the subsequent months with the UN Security Council. Turkey claimed in a letter the day of the downing that two Su-24 jets had approached Turkish airspace and ignored 10 warnings in five minutes. One jet left while the the other entered Turkish airspace, at which time it was fired upon “by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in that area in accordance with the rules of engagement.” In April, Russia sent a letter to the UN accusing Turkey of working with ISIS to smuggle oil out of the war zone and thus helping supply the militant group with funds and weapons. Turkey replied with a letter calling the Russian allegations “baseless.”

In the wake of the coup attempt, Ankara has radically revised recent history, to say the least.

Regardless of how many in the West viewed Erdoğan and his increasingly authoritarian tendencies, democratic leaders lined up in support of the elected Turkish government–in no small part because of the critical role Turkey plays in addressing the Syrian crisis. Ankara is convinced Gulenists were behind the coup, but has presented little evidence beyond confessions (likely extracted with torture). As Turkish officials pursue a widening crackdown against anyone the state can even tangentially link to the coup attempt–be they military members, school teachers, or journalists–the country’s allies will cringe. Except those in Moscow, it seems.

Erdoğan, Simsek said July 26, would be traveling to St. Petersburg to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/coup-at ... rochement/

erdogan shot it down.
-----------------------------

Then Tayip, PM Yildirim and Islamist Party Officials are all LYING.

The pilot just carried out the order he received from Tayip.

And nobody talks about it in Turkey. The leadership of the Armed Forces and the Air Force does not care or dare to speak out. Neither does the Turkish Officers Corps, which does not give a shyt for the wronged colleague. The turkish people who were hailing the pilot as a hero are just happy the sanctions are lifted and exports to Russia resumed. And the Turks of this forum ate no exception. Let the motherfvcker be a convenient scapegoat!

Which proves my point: The Turk is a coward, dishonest, dishonourable, disgusting, double-faced reptile............
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