Taliban 'offered bin Laden trial before 9/11'

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Joined: January 1st, 2011, 11:38 am

September 25th, 2011, 5:15 pm #21

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
"cock Cockaid...you are merely projecting your own thoughts,"

...hmmmm...yet you are the only one mentioning penises in the thread...

"...or perhaphs of your women folk."

What? You are saying that Muslim women are all lesbians? Well I suppose that is understandable based upon the horrid treatment they receive in most Islamic based societies.

"4:16 If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and mend, Leave them alone (do not annoy them in other words after they were punished); for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful. lmao traiditional Islam holds the view women are possession? your a typical swine, always speaking out from your backside, everything a wife earns is HER OWN, if she was her hunband property it would automatically be all his."

You are welcome to quote all the Koran verses you wish...the reality on the ground in most Muslim nations is that women are treated as chattel and frequently both physically and mentally abused. You are welcome to deny it all you wish, however their are numerous scientific studies (many done by women who consider themselves Muslims) into the matter...

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhviran.htm
http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway ... hildabuse/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_ ... c_violence

...a quick Google search will give you dozens of other links to articles and videos on the matter.

<table width="80%"><tr valign="middle"><td align="center"></td><td align="center">"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die</td><td align="center"></td></tr></table>
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Joined: May 7th, 2011, 10:51 pm

September 25th, 2011, 6:44 pm #22

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/53780-domes ... unreported
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2752567.stm
http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-vi ... temid=1280



some facts for honkies pointing fingers
One in four adults in Britain has experienced domestic violence, a poll for the BBC suggests.
The National Violence Against Women Survey for 2000 reported that 25% of women and 7.6% of men reported being victims of intimate partner violence at some point in their lives. It also reported that 1.5% (or 1.5 million) of women and 0.9% (or 0.83 million) of men reported being victims of rape or physical assault for the past year
The British Crime Survey for 2006-2007 reported that 0.5% of people (0.6% of women and 0.3% of men) reported being victims of domestic violence during that year and 44.3% of domestic violence was reported to the police. According to the survey, and 312,000 women and 93,000 men were victims of domestic violence
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Joined: July 10th, 2011, 4:30 pm

September 25th, 2011, 7:25 pm #23

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
UCHIA made me lol hard. wahahah.



Adler
8/6/2011 11:46:53 AMAs a non Muslim German Student there are some facts that I know about Iran:- If Israel attack Iran it will be the beginning of an end for the Zionist regime.- If NATO (puppet of USrael) target Iran they have to count with the highest and biggest casualties ever!- And I know if I could get there I would fight for Iran
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Joined: January 1st, 2011, 11:38 am

September 25th, 2011, 7:34 pm #24

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
"...some facts for honkies pointing fingers..."

...and yet British women can vote and drive...go figure.

By the way if read some of those reports (like you should), they point to most of the domestic violence occurring within ethnic minority communities, in particular the unreported cases. Interestingly from those reports it appears that women from Muslim countries (in particular Pakistan) living in Britain are the least likely to report domestic violence.

@SB

"UCHIA made me lol hard. wahahah."

Well of course violence against women made you laugh hard...you have repeatedly stated that you are an extreme misogynist and that you desire to physically beat women...kudos to you...I suppose beating children is your next desire.

<table width="80%"><tr valign="middle"><td align="center"></td><td align="center">"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die</td><td align="center"></td></tr></table>
Last edited by coalde_one on September 26th, 2011, 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 7th, 2011, 10:51 pm

September 26th, 2011, 4:21 pm #25

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
Heh...



Saudi king gives women right to vote
By Asma Alsharif | Reuters 2 hrs 23 mins ago

JEDDAH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's king announced on Sunday women would be given the right to vote and stand in elections, a bold shift in the ultra-conservative absolute monarchy as pressure for social and democratic reform sweeps the Middle East.

It was by far the biggest change in Saudi Arabia's tightly-controlled society yet ordered by the 88-year-old Abdullah bin Abdulaziz al-Saud, who took power six years ago with a reformer's reputation but has ruled as a cautious conservative.

In practice, the measure will do little to change how the country is run: Saudi Arabia's rulers allow elections only for half of the seats on municipal councils which have few powers. Only men will vote at the next elections which will take place next week; women will be allowed to vote in 2015.

The king did not address broader issues of women's rights in a country where women are not allowed to drive and require a male relative's permission to work or leave the country.

But the announcement was hailed by liberals and activists who said it raised hopes that other demands for greater democratic and social rights might one day be met.

"This is great news," said Saudi writer and women's rights activist Wajeha al-Huwaider. "Women's voices will finally be heard. Now it is time to remove other barriers like not allowing women to drive cars and not being able to function, to live a normal life without male guardians."

In his five-minute speech, Abdullah said women would be permitted join the unelected advisory Shura Council, which vets legislation although it has no binding powers.

"Because we refuse to marginalize women in society in all roles that comply with sharia (Islamic law), we have decided, after deliberation with our senior ulama (clerics) and others... to involve women in the Shura Council as members, starting from the next term," he said.

"Women will be able to run as candidates in the municipal election and will even have a right to vote."

Washington, Saudi Arabia's ally, praised the measures, saying they offered women "new ways to participate in the decisions that affect their lives and communities."

"The announcements made today represent an important step forward in expanding the rights of women in Saudi Arabia," said a White House statement. "We support King Abdullah and the people of Saudi Arabia as they undertake these and other reforms."

Robert Lacey, author of two books about the kingdom, described the change as the first positive response to a pent-up demand for reform that has begun to emerge in Saudi Arabia as popular democracy movements spread elsewhere in the Middle East.

During the Arab Spring pro-democracy protests, Saudi activists called for demonstrations, but only tiny numbers of people responded by taking to the streets, apart from members of the Shi'ite minority in the country's Eastern Province.

Saudi Arabia responded by barring demonstrations and by announcing nearly $130 billion in social spending in March.

"This is the first positive, progressive speech out of the government since the Arab Spring," said Lacey. "First the warnings, then the payments, now the beginnings of solid reform."

SCRUTINY

In a country where even cautious change is bitterly opposed by conservative clerics and some members of the ruling family, women's rights have drawn scrutiny at home and from abroad.

The king did not address broader issues of women's social rights, such as the ban on issuing driving licenses to women, which prompted small protests this summer by women who defied the authorities and drove.

Women in Saudi Arabia must also have written approval from a male guardian -- a father, husband, brother or son -- to leave the country, work or even undergo certain medical operations.

In 2002, the Saudi religious police shocked the nation and the world when they prevented schoolgirls from evacuating a burning building because they were not wearing full Islamic attire. Fifteen died.

King Abdullah has earned a reputation as a cautious reformer since he started to run the kingdom as de facto regent during the illness of his predecessor, King Fahd.

He built a new university for students of both sexes and encouraged women to participate more in the labor market. But he did little to alter the political system, which placed absolute power in the hands of a single generation of brothers since his father, state founder Abdulaziz, died in 1953.

After entering the Shura Council chamber leaning heavily on a cane on Sunday, Abdullah read only a section of a prepared statement that was later released in full by the authorities.

Tarek Fadaak, a member of the Shura Council and former chairman of the Jeddah city council, said: "The royal decision will not be challenged... but what remains to be seen is how these directives will be applied."

Naila Attar, who organized a campaign for women to be allowed to participate in the municipal council elections, said the move marked the beginning of progress.

"Despite the issue of the effectiveness of these councils, women's involvement in them was necessary. Maybe after women join there will be other changes," she said. "It is the top of the pyramid and a step in the direction for more decisions regarding women."

(Writing by Angus McDowall and Reed Stevenson; Editing by Peter Graff)

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-king-says-w ... 27157.html





_______________________________________________________________________

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Joined: January 1st, 2011, 11:38 am

September 26th, 2011, 4:25 pm #26

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
^...well it is the year 2011 you know...although apparently they still can't drive though...
The ultra-conservative monarchy has been touched by the Arab Spring, Neil MacFarquhar reports.

KING Abdullah of Saudi Arabia's decision to grant women the right to vote and run in future municipal elections is the biggest change in a decade for women in a puritanical kingdom that practices strict separation of the sexes, including banning women from driving.

Saudi women, who are legally subject to male chaperones for almost any public activity, said the uprisings sweeping the Arab world - along with sustained domestic pressure for women's rights - prompted the change. ''There is the element of the Arab Spring, there is the element of the strength of Saudi social media, and there is the element of Saudi women themselves, who are not silent,'' said Hatoon al-Fassi, a history professor and one of the women who organised a campaign demanding the right to vote this spring. ''Plus, the fact that the issue of women has turned Saudi Arabia into an international joke is another thing that brought the decision now.''

Manal al-Sharif, a 32-year-old computer security consultant who was arrested on May 22 and detained for 10 days after posting on YouTube a video of herself driving around the eastern city of Khobar, said the king's decision was ''a historic and courageous one''.

But political activists also wondered how they would be able to campaign for office when they were not allowed to drive. And there is a long history of royal decrees stalling, as weak enactment collides with the influence of Saudi Arabia's religious establishment.

In his announcement, the king said women would also be appointed to the Majlis al-Shura, a consultative council that advises the monarchy on public policy. But it is a toothless body that avoids matters of royal prerogative, such as where the nation's oil revenue goes.

King Abdullah, 87, has a reputation for pushing reforms opposed by some of his half-brothers among the senior princes. He said the monarchy was simply following Islamic guidelines, and that those who shunned such practices were ''arrogant''.

Women were granted the right to their own national identification cards in 2001, the last major step that many hoped would lead to greater public freedom, but it failed to materialise.

''We are now looking for even more,'' said Fawziah Bakr, an education professor in Riyadh. ''The Arab Spring means that things are changing, that the political power has to listen to the people. The Spring gave us a clear voice.''

Read morhttp://www.smh.com.au/world/saudi-women ... z1Z4nkenTw
...actually most interesting in that article is the apparent fact that up until 2001 women were considered non-entities by the Saudi state....interestingly I know that pure bred Arabian horses have had their own registration papers in Saudi Arabia for the past 50 years, meaning that in the eyes of the Saudi government, horses were more of an entity than human women were for at least 40 years.

<table width="80%"><tr valign="middle"><td align="center"></td><td align="center">"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
Motorhead, March or Die</td><td align="center"></td></tr></table>
Last edited by coalde_one on September 26th, 2011, 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 7th, 2011, 10:51 pm

September 26th, 2011, 4:43 pm #27

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
How predictable, when people respond point for point, zoo animals resort to bring up something else frustrated at the fact they're running out of ammo, they'll never be happy until you become like them, sort out your own degraded culture first, then maybe you can become a role model for others.

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Joined: January 1st, 2011, 11:38 am

September 26th, 2011, 5:07 pm #28

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
"How predictable, when people respond point for point, zoo animals resort to bring up something else frustrated at the fact they're running out of ammo,..."

Exactly, that is why I suppose that apologists for the failure that is politicized Islam can only engage in that tactic...those posters shall remain nameless.

"...they'll never be happy until you become like them, sort out your own degraded culture first, then maybe you can become a role model for others. "

Yes that degraded and failed western secular society...you know, the one that has provided virtually every scientific advancement to the human race for the past 200 years. Yes that failed society that produces the most productive and educated humans on the planet. Yes that failed society based upon laws that treat everyone equally under that law....good Lord what savages we are!

UCHIA, I don't give a flying f^ck how any particular person on this planet lives, including you...if you wish to live in a cave and beat your womenfolk every Tuesday whether they deserve it or not...until the day you decide to strap a few kg of Semtex to yourself and bravely run into a day care somewhere while screaming "ALLAHU AKBAR!!! DIE INFIDELS, DIE!!!" in the deluded hope you will receive 72 virgins in the afterlife...then by all means, go ahead and do that.

However if you wish to come to WAFF and claim that Islamic based societies are superior to all others because they are based upon a book of fairy tales written by a despot 1500 years ago...I will take issue with that, as all the data seems to point to the fact that every Islamic based nation is pretty much at the bottom of the pack in human development and falling further behind every year. In addition the data seems to indicate that the more fundamental the implementation of Islamic principles that are applied in a nation state, the more of a failure it is to it's citizens.

<table width="80%"><tr valign="middle"><td align="center"></td><td align="center">"All your lives a cosmic joke, fill your days with piss and smoke
The wolf waits at your door"
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Joined: November 12th, 2010, 9:19 pm

September 26th, 2011, 9:55 pm #29

Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior to 9/11, but US was not interested.

The Taliban government in Afghanistan offered to present Osama bin Laden for a trial long before the attacks of September 11, 2001, but the US government showed no interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, Talibans last foreign minister, told Al Jazeera in an exclusive interview that his government had made several proposals to the United States to present the al-Qaeda leader, considered the mastermind of the 2001 attacks, for trial for his involvement in plots targeting US facilities during the 1990s.

"Even before the [9/11] attacks, our Islamic Emirate had tried through various proposals to resolve the Osama issue. One such proposal was to set up a three-nation court, or something under the supervision of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference [OIC]," Muttawakil said.

"But the US showed no interest in it. They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the US, no agreement of any sort. They did not recognise our government."

The US did not recognise the Taliban government and had no direct diplomatic relations with the group which controlled most of Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001.

But proposals by the Taliban were relayed to the US through indirect channels such as the US embassy in Pakistan or the informal Taliban office for the UN in New York, Muttawakil said.

Robert Grenier, the CIA station chief in Pakistan at the time of 9/11, confirmed that such proposals had been made to US officials.

Grenier said the US considered the offers to bring in Bin Laden to trial a "ploy".

"Another idea was that [bin Laden] would be brought to trial before a group of Ulema [religious scholars] in Afghanistan.

"No one in the US government took these [offers] seriously because they did not trust the Taliban and their ability to conduct a proper trial."

Subsequent to the 1998 US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as US pressure grew, the Taliban insisted on a procedure under the supervision of OIC because it considered it a "neutral international organisation".

The OIC is a Saudi Arabia-based organisation representing 56 Muslim nations. Al Jazeera contacted the OIC, but nobody was available for comment.
Muttawakil now lives in Kabul [GALLO/GETTY]


Afghanistan's seat at the United Nations at the time was occupied by the anti-Taliban resistance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani, the country's ousted president, but its seat at the OIC had remained empty, Muttawakil said.

Grenier said a top US prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, visited Pakistan to present evidence implicating bin Laden in US embassy bombings.

"He met with the Pakistani interior minister and the idea was to convince the Paksitani government to help in turning over bin Laden," he said.

Grenier could not recall whether Fitzgerald met with Taliban officials in Pakistan to discuss their proposals or not.

Muttawakil, who now lives in Kabul and advises an Islamic educational foundation, reportedly tried to negotiate a ceasefire in the days after the US launched operations in the country in 2001 by seeking to convince Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to part ways with bin Laden.

He was taken into US custody in the notorious Bagram prison early in 2002. After months of detention, he was released under house arrest in Kandahar and then moved to Kabul.

Bin Laden had first moved to Afghanistan during the war against the Soviet invasion in 1979 as part of large number of Arab fighters in the region. After the Soviet withdrawal, he moved to Sudan in 1992 as a factional war broke out in Afghanistan.

When Sudan came under increasing pressure from the US, bin Laden was flown back to Afghanistan in a chartered plane hired by Rabbani's government.

"They [al-Qaeda] were people from the time of Jihad, and Rabbanis government brought them back into the country. The Taliban simply inherited them," Muttawakil said.

Taliban and al-Qaeda links

A movement of predominantly students from religious schools, the Taliban emerged from the south of country in late 1996 as a beacon of hope to end the years of bloodshed and factional fighting.

Bringing a message of peace and security, they swept through the country, with only a small pocket of resistance in the north that endured throughout their rule.

But they suffered their share of pressure and sanctions from the international community for the extreme measures they imposed, including banning women from school and work, and for harbouring bin Laden.

When they conquered the eastern city of Jalalabad, where bin Laden was staying, Saudi Arabia, his home country that had revoked his citizenship, pressured them to restrict his movement.

"Saudi Arabia had problems with him - that he should not be giving press conferences and coming out to the media," Muttawakil said. "Their request was to keep Osama silent. So the Emirate decided to bring him to Kandahar, where our leader stayed, to keep him under our focus".

When the attacks of September 11 happened, Muttawakil was in the foreign ministry in Kabul. He immediately contacted Mullah Omar, who remained in Kandahar throughout his government.

"Afghanistan was one of the first few governments that condemned the attacks," Muttawakil said.

"Neither for the US, nor for Afghanistan - and the Afghan people - the attacks were not a good thing. Because subsequent to those attacks, many more people have died here in Afghanistan."

That attack was a disaster on civilians, and on the pretext of that attack, disasters have been afflicted on the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said.

Muttawakil said that there had always been differences of opinion between the Arab fighters of al-Qaeda and his Taliban colleagues. Such differences surfaced further after 9/11.

"There is no doubt that the stance of the Emirate and the views of some of the Arab activists differed. We condemned the attacks because the people targeted were defenseless civilians, women, children, Muslim and non-Muslim. But al-Qaeda praised it."

Days after 9/11, with the US military campaign looming, the Taliban government convened an advisory gathering of over 1,500 religious scholars at a Kabul hotel to discuss what to do with bin Laden.

The scholars concluded that the Taliban government should ask bin Laden to "leave the country voluntarily".

"The Americans said that even if he leaves, they will search any place in Afghanistan that they wanted with their military forces. They wanted him dead or alive."

"Their requests and demands were based on a logic of war. They were preparing for it - preparing their planes in the Gulf and working with Pakistan to open a route. Their decision to go to war was definite."

Bin Laden's whereabouts remained a mystery for most of the decade after the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. He was eventually killed in a raid by US special forces in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad in May.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 67663.html
Let me put it this way. There was a American citizen in Afghanistan who committed adultery in Afghanistan under the Taliban. The punishment of such an act is death. This is not so in America. Let us assume this guy got away and is in America now. If the Taliban said to the American government that this crime was committed in the Islamic state of Afghanistan and we need this American to be extradited so he can be tried in an Islamic court for his crime. What would the American government do?

Anwar, you can't seriously be equating the mass murder of civilians with adultery are you?

<table cellpadding="10"><tr><td></td><td>"The chief aim of all government is to preserve the freedom of the citizen. His control over his person, his property, his movements, his business, his desires should be restrained only so far as the public welfare imperatively demands. The world is in more danger of being governed too much than too little.

It is the teaching of all history that liberty can only be preserved in small areas. Local self-government is, therefore, indispensable to liberty. A centralized and distant bureaucracy is the worst of all tyranny.

Taxation can justly be levied for no purpose other than to provide revenue for the support of the government. To tax one person, class or section to provide revenue for the benefit of another is none the less robbery because done under the form of law and called taxation."

John W. Davis, Democratic Presidential Candidate, 1924. Davis was one of the greatest trial and appellate lawyers in US history. He also served as the US Ambassador to the UK.
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