Shocked by price of Patriots, Polish defense minister curses out his Yankee patrons

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Shocked by price of Patriots, Polish defense minister curses out his Yankee patrons

Joined: July 17th, 2007, 10:30 pm

December 11th, 2017, 11:49 pm #1

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/1 ... -purchase/

LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
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Joined: July 3rd, 2015, 11:54 pm

December 11th, 2017, 11:57 pm #2

another russian exaggeration just like the su-35 scaring away the f-22.

so where exactly does he curse out zee yankees?
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Joined: July 17th, 2007, 10:30 pm

December 12th, 2017, 2:33 am #3

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/1 ... -purchase/

LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
Shows you how little bang for buck a Western military has. Poland is a nation 38 million people. They can not afford 16 Patriot launchers with 4 radars. 16 launcher and 4 radars is by Russian standards a single brigade set or 2 battalion sets. Poland has over 2% of GDP allocated to defense. That is a lot for a Western country and yet they can't afford anything because Yankee junk is 4x overpriced and is priced for Saudi sheiks and no one else.

Russia has 147 milllion people or 3.8x the population of Poland but on paper Russia is a poorer country per capita. Call it 20% poorer per capita but somehow Russia has managed to afford to stand up not 1 pathetic brigade set of missiles but freakin 22 brigade sets of S-400s and now 8 more brigade of S-300V4s and I won't even go into 2 Buk-M3 brigades (equivalent to your Patriots) and all the older S-300 systems still in service. Poland under Russian management would have have 8 or 9 freakin brigade sets in service today. But they picked Yankees. When war with the Martians comes they will be unarmed and unprepared.
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Joined: July 3rd, 2015, 11:54 pm

December 12th, 2017, 3:04 am #4

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
so where did he curse?
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Joined: July 17th, 2007, 10:30 pm

December 12th, 2017, 3:10 am #5

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
This is diplomatic equivalent of saying "f*ck your mother."
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Joined: January 9th, 2006, 4:49 am

December 12th, 2017, 5:15 am #6

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
poor poland ... wasting money on things it doesnt need
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Joined: September 7th, 2010, 2:07 pm

December 12th, 2017, 6:27 am #7

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/1 ... -purchase/

LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
Just LOL. Nobody curses anybody. There are 2 reasons for high price tag, and they are known to MoD. It's all regular stuff. And we do need missile defence.

1. This is the highest price US agrees to sell those items for. Considering some technologies are not yet rolled out in US armed forces (like IBCS), nobody really knows exact price tag. That needs to be negotiated further. Same was with JASSM, US govt offer was 2x that of final price tag we've paid. Also, there is significant offset, and that's paid extra - you pay more for technology to make some elements at home and develop them at will.

2. Lockheed Martin is salty that we didn't go with MEADS. They have vastly overpriced thier part of offset. Most likely Lockheed's offset will not be accepted.

This is just one of many projects, so it's not like we're selling family silver to buy Patriots.
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Joined: January 9th, 2006, 4:49 am

December 12th, 2017, 7:10 am #8

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
you still dont need it...

americans are creating a crisis and you falling like all the other US allies to buy US weapons
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Joined: September 7th, 2010, 2:07 pm

December 12th, 2017, 7:33 am #9

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
"you still dont need it... "

And have country defenceless? Even if were friendly to Russia, a country needs to be defended. Only a fool trusts that other people will always come to your defence. For all we know, Geramny can go full nazi or sharia in couple decades, and become hostile to us. And when France/Germany become hostile muslim powers, we will need weapons. Besides, even with all this new gear, it won't be enough if Russia really wanted to invade. It will just make it much less profitable, and much larger forces will be needed. Strong Poland may be able to become neutral later on, and thus guarantee peace in Europe - having a strong independent country should be our goal for the sake of peace.
We will never be as strong as to invade either Russia or Germany, but we need to be strong enough to separate them.
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Joined: January 9th, 2006, 4:49 am

December 12th, 2017, 7:38 am #10

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
at what cost?... dont u realise you a provoking the Russians?...

the americans suckered us into believing that USSR was take out Pakistan once Afghanistan was pacified and look how that turned out... terrorism, destruction, endless weapons purchases.. we bought F-16s and the indian panicked and bought more Mig-29 and Mirages 2000 and so on.

same old trick... they do with every one.

Last edited by PradoTLC on December 12th, 2017, 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 7th, 2010, 2:07 pm

December 12th, 2017, 8:27 pm #11

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
"at what cost?... dont u realise you a provoking the Russians?... "

Russians are provoked by us breathing. In fact, I'd say they are provoking us to buy weapons. It's not exactly a friendly gesture when they embargo you on routine basis (Russians did that even when relations were ok in early 2000's), cut the gas supply and raise prices by 30% just beacuse they can (afterwards they b1tch about us buying gas from US - yeah go eat lead Ivan, if you weren't a prick in the first place nobody would try to import LNG from USA), conduct training by your border, that includes "eradication of polish separatists in Belarus" (aka Zapad) and invasion. There is no room to talk. Russians pushed us to be US lapdogs on thier own, by trying to bully us into submission. And now they are b1tching about how we are so hostile towards them. It's a choice between doing blowjobs for money, and doing blojobs because a pimp is threatening to beat you up. So yeah Ivan. Feel provoked. You'd feel provoked regardless what we do anyway, so it doesn't matter. We are doing good business with China too, hopefully the fact that Chinese direct investment is increasing rapidly (and it's mostly new production facilities, not simple Chinese buying up industry like in the west) will eventually provide some offset to US influence. But we'd rather do good business with China than shitty business with Ivan.
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Joined: August 14th, 2014, 10:49 am

December 12th, 2017, 8:48 pm #12

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
I suppose Poland could have gone with Aster missiles (Samp-T) instead of Patriot. But French/Italian weapons aren't exactly cheap.

The options for certain weapons systems are very limited.

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Joined: February 1st, 2005, 10:45 pm

December 12th, 2017, 10:18 pm #13

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
irkut admits Russia is poorer than Poland even though Russia is basically a gold mine. Then he argues Poland should be governed by Russia so that Poland can have more SAMs

WORST SALES PITCH EVER

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Joined: August 11th, 2013, 9:24 pm

December 12th, 2017, 10:47 pm #14

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
when France/Germany become hostile muslim powers
==

ummmm, they are on the way to be that


Option 2: Poland declares NEUTRAL

saves a lot of money.

40 million ppl country is today really too small to fight a serious war.

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Joined: August 14th, 2014, 10:49 am

December 12th, 2017, 11:51 pm #15

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
40 million ppl country is today really too small to fight a serious war.
-----

Define "serious war".
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Joined: September 7th, 2010, 2:07 pm

December 13th, 2017, 7:09 am #16

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
"Option 2: Poland declares NEUTRAL

saves a lot of money. "

No, Poland is in geographic location where we can't be neutral. We tried that before WW2, even though Hitler proposed alliance before (most likely to relocate us to Russian territory after they won against Soviet Union later on...) but instead ended up with Soviet Union and Nazis ally themselves against us, and European allies dropping leaflets on Germany. So unless we are strong enough to make war with us costly - it's not feasible to be neutral. Should we do that we will be taken over entirely, either by covert or overt means. Really - it's laguable and repulsive how people here are saying "you need no army, just get some lube, be invaded and die without resisting". Besides, we are developing our own industry at the same time. We are also talking with UK regarding CAMM missiles - preferrably we want to produce them in Poland as time goes and plug them into US IBCS, and then plug HIMARS into that system also - to fire ATACMS at launchers right after they fire missiles into Polish territory. Currently planned architecture of Polish Air defence hinges on IBCS basically. And new passive radar arrays with 400km range we are working on, so that we see anything that flies above Kaliningrad. Already, we've got a border fence packed with sensors to prevent possible Spetznaz infiltration.
With proper saturation of AA, any attacks will be costly and will require significant ground component.

As for 40 mil country being too small - tell that to ISRAEL with less than 10 mil citizens. Our economy is growing significantly, we can afford to have proper air defence and air foce. And we will have that.
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Joined: January 9th, 2006, 4:49 am

December 13th, 2017, 7:29 am #17

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
Ok buddy

all we are saying Russia isnt what it was before and it alot cheaper to find a reconcilable approach rather than the overly aggressive approach yankie approach that tends to blow up on your face.. besides Poland is part of NATO why would Russia mess with that?
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Joined: August 11th, 2013, 9:24 pm

December 13th, 2017, 10:34 pm #18

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
Seasparrow, thank buddy, I fully understand your reasonings.

What I tried to say is: modern day war machines are serious expensive, like one jet cost over 100 millions USD.

And developing high tech weapons cost a lot of time and money too.

While in the same time the much bigger countries have big money and big technologies for long time.

The gap btw samll countries and big countries are wider each passing year.

Israel is small but only strong by the fact that their neighbours are too small and weak.

If forget nukes, countries with size of India can destroy Israel in 2 days if they border each other.

40 million ppl is big in Europe but really too small in the world.

And today is not like 100 years ago, today distance does not matter that much more, global strike capabilities are within hand reach.
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Joined: July 17th, 2007, 10:30 pm

December 14th, 2017, 2:29 am #19

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
First of all 16 launchers and 4 radars against Russian air power is a drop of water in the ocean. This massively expensive Yankee junk heap of a system will never be fielded in sufficient number to deter Russia tactically or strategically. It's a laughable procurement that amounts basically to a bribe to the US government. Just tribute to your colonial masters. Its so small a buy I don't think it's sufficient to deter even a Norway or a Finland. I also dont understand what you mean by offsets in this case. There certainly aren't any that can explain a literal 4x price multiplier.

Finally, Russia has NEVER in 76 years cut off gas to Europe. Not even in the height of the Cold War. The only country in Europe to ever see cuts of Russian gas was and is Ukraine and that's because they have no money and can't pay their freakin bills. Russia has never used gas a weapon against the West because its an empty shell of a weapon. There's nothing preventing Europe from sourcing gas elsewhere. Russian gas is merely the cheapest and most cost effective gas on the planet.
Last edited by irkut on December 14th, 2017, 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 14th, 2006, 6:45 am

December 14th, 2017, 8:29 am #20

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LJL. Enjoy being slaves of the Yankees.
Turkey is going to pay 2 billion for S400 while Poland is going to pay 10 billion for less capable Patriot PAC3.

What would you buy to defend your country?
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