F125 - Time for more detailed information

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F125 - Time for more detailed information

Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 1:40 am #1

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
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Joined: June 1st, 2005, 3:17 am

November 2nd, 2005, 1:54 am #2

Very nice.


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Joined: April 15th, 2003, 3:34 am

November 2nd, 2005, 2:11 am #3

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Beautiful! Will the radar be some kind of phased array like on the Horizon cruisers?

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Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 2:22 am #4

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
They will most likely use APAR, without Smart-L of course.
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Joined: June 1st, 2005, 3:17 am

November 2nd, 2005, 2:36 am #5

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
What is the exact mission of the frigate?


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Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 4:44 am #6

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Stabilizing operations

sea control in asymmetric warfare, homebase for special operation, evacuating missions, land attack, and of course traditional operations like surface and sub-surface warfare.

Enduring Freedom is the most important naval operation of the last years and it seems that this kind of missions will increase in future. The new concepts credit these new tasks. For example, at the moment the maximum operation endurance for our frigate is six month before they need maintenance that can not be provided in foreign countries. Because of that we have a high rotation, imagine, you need two weeks to sail form germany to djibouti, and of course two weeks back from there to here. So there are only five month left. In two years, you need five rotations, and you sail about 48.000 nautical miles just to go there and come back! With this new ship the only thing you need to do is fly every six month new crew down to africa, and the ship can stay there for about two years. So, overall you do it with one ship instead of two, with about a quarter of the crew, with sailing about 40.000 miles less, with higher security for the crew and without loosing any capability.
Second, we have no real platform for bigger special forces operations. The other frigates are to small to accomodate more than a small group, and our replenishment ships have not the capability to plan and control such missions. With this frigate the situation will change. 50 men a enough for most special operations, they can use two modern helicopter and four large speed boats, and if the situation needs fire support, no problem for that. Monarc with a range of 70+km and RBS 15 with a range of 200km will do this job.
Of course, that is not comparable to what other navies can do, but don't forget that it is 'just' a frigate of 139m length. For that i believe this is quiet impressive.
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Joined: June 1st, 2005, 3:17 am

November 2nd, 2005, 4:46 am #7

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
So this ship has somewhat the same mission as the French La Fayette class frigate?


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Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 4:52 am #8

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Not really. La Fayette seems to be a light frigate for sea control, but not for special operations (special forces, evacuation), land attack or humanitarian aid.
You can't compare these two ships, la fayette has a longer sea endurance and higher range, but therefore lacks mission endurance and weapon capabilities.
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Joined: June 1st, 2005, 3:17 am

November 2nd, 2005, 5:16 am #9

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
I thought I read that one of the La Fayette's missions was to evacuate french citizens from overseas colonies.


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Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 5:23 am #10

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Well, the la fayette class is a little bit small to accomodate a higher number of people, it also has only one helicopter and as far as i know the normal medical equipment found on every frigate. There is also a difference between bigger special forces operations (as i said with up to 50 soldiers) and 'just evacuation'. There are some missions that these frigates have in common, but that is the same for a lot of frigates out there.
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Joined: October 5th, 2003, 8:11 am

November 2nd, 2005, 6:00 am #11

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Nice. Germany will get eight right, replacing the Bremen Klasse F122. What is the supposed price tag?

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Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 6:05 am #12

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Acutal four are official planned yet, as i said in the first post. And the expected price will be something around 465 million euro each.
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Joined: July 2nd, 2003, 10:21 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 9:16 am #13

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Thanks for the info. I can understand the earlier rumours about its similarity with the Danish F370.
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Joined: September 13th, 2005, 11:58 am

November 2nd, 2005, 12:21 pm #14

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
what happend to meko x8000 ?

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Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 4:40 pm #15

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Nothing happend to it, as expected. It was more or less clear that we are not going to buy eight Meko X, and it is good to see that they have not tried to make so downgraded version.

It is interesting to see different concepts integrated in a design that is not bigger than F124. Now let's see what will happen with it before the contracts are signed.
Last edited by Westfale on November 2nd, 2005, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 24th, 2003, 9:22 am

November 2nd, 2005, 4:46 pm #16

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
With APAR, VLS and land attack missiles? I believe it when I see it...

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Joined: April 24th, 2003, 9:22 am

November 2nd, 2005, 4:47 pm #17

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Btw. Is MONARC already selected? I never heard anything definitive?

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Joined: May 11th, 2003, 9:01 pm

November 2nd, 2005, 5:10 pm #18

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
Why not? That they install APAR is very realistic, the VLS is standard since F123, and the navy has selected RBS.15 as AshM for K130 and i do not believe that they change their opinion with these new ships. The only thing i can't believe is the installation of MLRS-rocket lancher.
Monarc is part of the offer, it was tested without big press in the last years and as far as i know the problems were solved very early. But you know what can happen in politics...
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Joined: April 24th, 2003, 9:22 am

November 2nd, 2005, 5:29 pm #19

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
"Why not?"

We both know why, the money....
Do you remember what we were supposed to get?
4 F 124 --> down to 3
15 K 130 --> only 5 ordered until now, total silence on the rest and they are supposed to replace 30!!! FACs.
12 U 212A --> now down to 6, if we are lucky 8. And it was supposed to be 12.
Still no news on Global Hawk with regards to the replacement of the Atlantique in the SIGINT role.
ETRUS quietly swept under the rug.
Polyphem, so much money spent for nothing.

No, I am veeeeeery careful.

" That they install APAR is very realistic, the VLS is standard since F123, and the navy has selected RBS.15 as AshM for K130 and i do not believe that they change their opinion with these new ships."

The RBS is another strange selection IMO, but anyway APAR withoul SMART-L is only half as good and will offer only self-protection ability. And the K 130 is crap as it is, I hope they have some plans to make it a useable vessel at least in batch 2.

"The only thing i can't believe is the installation of MLRS-rocket lancher."

I'm willing to bet that they meant a VLS and made a mistake in the article. Still, the thought of an ATACMS launched from a ship is amusing...

"Monarc is part of the offer, it was tested without big press in the last years and as far as i know the problems were solved very early. But you know what can happen in politics..."

Very much sadly. I heard horror stories that the F 125 won't have sonar, no VLS and basically be a ship "fitted-for-but-not-with" and all that crap.

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Joined: September 13th, 2005, 11:58 am

November 2nd, 2005, 5:38 pm #20

The F125-frigates were some kind of myth in the last years. The name was often heard, but only few informations were available. This changed in the last month. The official request aimed for a contract in 2006, and a offer in July 2005. The ARGE F125 Design is now in official discussion and well within the timeline. Of course, we have to wait about half a year for the definitive design, but these first studies are more than we have seen in the last years.



The new Frigates will be used for stabilizing operations and will lead to real land-attack-capabilities together with the possibility to use special forces all over the world for the german navy.

Length: 139m
Width: 18m
Sea Endurance: 21 days
Mission Endurance: 24 month
Range: 4.000 nm
Displacement: 5.000 ts
Cruising Speed: 20 kn
Maximum Speed: 26 kn

The basic crew will be reduced from ~200 to ~100 in comparison with F124, but it will have the capability to host two complete crews. Next to this it has enough space to accomodate a 50 men strong crew of special forces together with rooms for mission planning and control. On deck is space for two standard-container for additional equipment or technology. The ship will also provide bigger rescue rooms and sick bays than found on actual frigates.
For transport uses they can use the two MH-90 helicopter and four 33ft-speed-boats.



The weapon systems installed enable the ship to fight land, air and sea targets as well as asymmetric attacks. The 76mm-guns used on F122-F124 will be replaced by Monarc, the ship base variant of the PzH2000. There is also a possibility that a navalized version of MLRS will be installed.




VLS and AShM are placed to fight air and sea targets (i believe it will be RBS 15 Mk3 with LA-capability), and a lot of 'small arms' for asymmetric warfare, 2 MLG, 5 12.7mm HMG (automatic) and 2 12.7mm MG.



The sensor suite consists of standard-components, APAR, new generation sonar, but also special equipment for asymmetric warfare, under-water-drones, electro-optical-systems, IR-tracker with weapon control capability even against targets direct next to the ship.



Combined Diesel, Electric and Gas is the new propulsion concept. Four diesel engines, which can be placed all over the ship, will give energy for ship systems as well as for two electric engines. With them a speed of 20 knots will be possible, for higher speed the gas turbine will be coupled. This concept enables the ship to stretch maintenance from 6 month on F124 to 24 month on F125. It will also reduce costs for fuel and maintenance.

Of course, the design can and will change during the actual discussion, but it is interesting to see the first images and read the specifications. The current contract plans will go for 4 frigates, allthough 8 are needed not only to replace all F122 but also to fulfill the operational needs. At the moment there is no official plan how these gap will be filled. There are several rumours, some seems to indicate that 4 F122 will be modernized to serve some more years with a replacement of 6 frigates for these 4 F122 and the 4 F123, some say that the F125-concept was chosen to build eight of them, and there are even some who say that the navy waits to see how good K130 does her duty to build a number of K131 to reduce F122 and the FACs (by the way, there are even plans for new FAC, nobody believes that some years ago and it is still very unofficial). But these are speculations right now, the F125 will come, and thats her topic.


Sources:
http://www.marineforum.info/HEFT_11-2005/F125/f125.html
http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... user3.html
well those downsize in numbers came when red-green coalition started and they minimized defence budget, even if its not a lot but it will grow 0.9 billion in 2006we will see what cdu can reach, it is still unknown what the surplus income of the more worth tax will be used for(maybe some billion for army ?) since cdu is in goverment again

and 15 k130 are a big number since most countrys would clasify them as frigates

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