Status for Hawkeye Point

Status for Hawkeye Point

Joined: July 31st, 2002, 10:51 am

April 26th, 2006, 6:17 pm #1

Are there any restrictions or problems with visiting the Iowa high point during May? I plan to visit Hawkeye Point during the weekend of May 19th, so I wanted to make sure that it will be fully accessable.

Also, does anyone know what the next two highest points are in Iowa? I'm trying to visit the top 3 high points in each state and it's real difficult identifying the # 2 & 3 points for Iowa. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about what the top 3 points are for the state.

Thanks.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 20th, 2004, 6:42 pm

April 26th, 2006, 8:41 pm #2

I guess we need a definition of minimum separation distances in order to determine who far removed a second highest point needs to be from the highest point in order to be considered. Without this, the second and third highest points are right next to the highest point.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 31st, 2002, 10:51 am

April 27th, 2006, 10:46 am #3

That's the problem that I am having. It's easy in states like Wyoming where the 2nd and 3rd high points are unique mountain summits seperated by miles, however in places like Iowa it's hard to determine where Hawkeye point ends and a seperate high point begins on a neighboring hill. I'm looking for ideas and suggestions about how to determine these 2nd and 3rd high points so that I can be consistent across the U.S. One rule that I have established is if there are two seperate points with similar elevations then I'll try to visit both of them to make sure that I get to the "true" high point.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 21st, 2004, 6:08 am

April 27th, 2006, 1:28 pm #4

I think the problem you're going to encounter is that the definitions vary. If I recall correctly, folks in the White Mountains of NH use a separation of 200' or 300,' while people in CA use 500.' So basically you can't really go with what the locals use if you're going to be consistent throughout the country.

You also could drape yourself over the highpoint and do a 360-degree turn, thus ensuring that you hit the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th...highest points, but what fun would that be?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 20th, 2004, 6:42 pm

April 27th, 2006, 7:37 pm #5

That's the problem that I am having. It's easy in states like Wyoming where the 2nd and 3rd high points are unique mountain summits seperated by miles, however in places like Iowa it's hard to determine where Hawkeye point ends and a seperate high point begins on a neighboring hill. I'm looking for ideas and suggestions about how to determine these 2nd and 3rd high points so that I can be consistent across the U.S. One rule that I have established is if there are two seperate points with similar elevations then I'll try to visit both of them to make sure that I get to the "true" high point.
Here's a starting point. Back when Vin Hoeman was first visiting state HPs, he thought Ocheyedan Mound (east of Hawkeye Point) was Iowa's HP at an elevation of 1613 feet. Here's a topozone link to a map of Ocheyedan Mound.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=15&n= ... ayer=DRG25
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 27th, 2004, 2:50 am

April 28th, 2006, 2:52 am #6

That's the problem that I am having. It's easy in states like Wyoming where the 2nd and 3rd high points are unique mountain summits seperated by miles, however in places like Iowa it's hard to determine where Hawkeye point ends and a seperate high point begins on a neighboring hill. I'm looking for ideas and suggestions about how to determine these 2nd and 3rd high points so that I can be consistent across the U.S. One rule that I have established is if there are two seperate points with similar elevations then I'll try to visit both of them to make sure that I get to the "true" high point.
I've never had a formal definition, but how about this:

If you were to walk in a straight line from the highest peak to the 2nd highest peak, at some point your head would be at a lower altitude than that of the 2nd highest peak.

(Just case... Peak: a surface point where, if you were to move in any direction, you would end up at a lower altitude)
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 26th, 2004, 7:00 pm

April 28th, 2006, 1:42 pm #7

I think the problem you're going to encounter is that the definitions vary. If I recall correctly, folks in the White Mountains of NH use a separation of 200' or 300,' while people in CA use 500.' So basically you can't really go with what the locals use if you're going to be consistent throughout the country.

You also could drape yourself over the highpoint and do a 360-degree turn, thus ensuring that you hit the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th...highest points, but what fun would that be?
In New England, things generally run on a 200' col rule if you're following the AMC list. There are other lists that use a 100' col. For the Daks, it's 300' in principle, but the historic list takes precedence.

These wouldn't make sense in many of the flatter states, but except in the case of FL, I think you could do a 50' or 100' col and still have 3 distinct points. Any lower than that and you'll end up with your highest points very close together.

-dave-
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 20th, 2004, 9:10 pm

April 28th, 2006, 2:34 pm #8

I've never had a formal definition, but how about this:

If you were to walk in a straight line from the highest peak to the 2nd highest peak, at some point your head would be at a lower altitude than that of the 2nd highest peak.

(Just case... Peak: a surface point where, if you were to move in any direction, you would end up at a lower altitude)
If you were to walk in a straight line from the highest peak to the 2nd highest peak, at some point your head would be at a lower altitude than that of the 2nd highest peak.


There's always a counter-argument to any 'definition' applied to this pursuit - for the moment, I will play devil's advocate:

Suppose the highest peak and the second highest peak are connected by a ridge that circles around with very little drop between the two, so that in a straight line you may drop below the second peak's height, but following the ridgeline you may not.

The various elevation drops suggested are obviously arbitrary and meant to give some way to distinguish between a separate summit and a subsidiary summit. To some people, climbing the second highest peak means a peak entirely separated physically from the range that includes the first peak. To others, the second highest can be in the same range, just 'far enough away and down' to make it feel like a separate peak.

For mountainous states, both methods lead to reasonably interesting lists and goals. Your conundrum is with the flat states ... and I don't pretend to have any better answer than anyone else. If you just want to dip a few feet down between rises in the fields, then your 2nd and 3rd highest may very well be close by to the state HP. If you want to assign a required drop of 50 or 100 feet then your next highest may be far away, but may look over some higher humps that have maybe just 30 feet of prominence. The state HP is objectively defined and irrefutable (up to our trusting the USGS surveyors). There is no objective definition of the next highest points without requiring some rule - human imposed and subjective - to limn out the list.

Even so, this sounds like a good excuse to break out the topos and read away. Not a bad thing, of course!

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 31st, 2002, 10:51 am

April 28th, 2006, 5:58 pm #9

Here's a starting point. Back when Vin Hoeman was first visiting state HPs, he thought Ocheyedan Mound (east of Hawkeye Point) was Iowa's HP at an elevation of 1613 feet. Here's a topozone link to a map of Ocheyedan Mound.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=15&n= ... ayer=DRG25
Great suggestion – that will work for me as HP #2 for Iowa. Now if I can logically determine HP #3 I’ll be ready for my trip. I also plan to visit Michigan during this same trip and will climb Mount Curwood to claim the #2 HP for that state. Curwood is another historical highpoint, which changed positions after a more accurate survey was done.

In determining the 2nd and 3rd HPs, I have been trying to follow the rules outlined in Scott Surgent’s response listed below. I like the idea of visiting a physically separated mountain or ridgeline. In all states of course this is not always feasible or necessary. The #2 HP in Virginia is a good example where the summit is a distinct mountain top separated from the #1 HP by a 1,000’+ col. Whitetop Mountain is also located more than 3 miles from Mount Rogers, so I think it clearly qualifies as a separate mountain/highpoint.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=17&n= ... ayer=DRG25
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 20th, 2004, 6:42 pm

April 28th, 2006, 10:19 pm #10

Be aware that you could stand atop Ocheyedan Mound and look westward at several points that were higher than you. There are several local maxima near Hawkeye Point that exceed 1660 feet.
Quote
Like
Share