19th Kreig Regiment

Painting your Imperial Guard Or Inquisition army or just wanting to show your [I Swear Too Much] work? From Witch Hunters, Deamon Hunters or GreyKnights Please post in here.

19th Kreig Regiment

Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Oct 6 2007, 09:03 PM #1

Wohoo. So my eyes have finally recovered from my PRK surgury and I'm finally getting to start my krieg army that I have acumulated over the past year and a half. So I picked the 19th regiment cause they looked pretty cool I liked the browns. Also I watched both versions of "Alll quiet on the western front" on my trip (both great in thier own way). And the germans had tan/brown uniforms before they turned into the grey shock troopers that we all know. So I wanted to paint them when they were more just germans and not stormtroopers. Anyways not to dive political thats why I chose the brown guys. And in the siegs of vraks they all die. So in every game I play I win for loosing, cause thats whats supposed to happen. For those of you who don't have the book here is a picture of what they look like....





Here is a blank paint aid I made if anyone wants it.

For those of you who did your research they also have really crummy green equipment. Ie tanks and artillery. however I'm going to be going for the simple tan scheme shown on a leman russ of the 7th company

Well here are my first minis...



Sike you didn't think I would paint a $60 squad without practice firet did you. After my extended absence from the hobby I'm a bit rusty (almost scared to start cutting up tanks, not) and I want to try allot of new things to make these models look better than my usual. After all with as much as they cost I can at leat make them look nice. Anyways with the exception of my brothers apothocary I have never done a wash on anything. These models are freebes that came with my 35th scale tanks and looked mighty stupid before I messed them up. So I feel nothing when I sacrifice them.

I started using Vallejo colors and I like them.
The Cloths are khaki.
The LBE is Cobra leather.
The Armor is a combo 2:1 cobra leather and charred brown.
The gloves are charred brown.
The leggings and mask are bon white.
I'm thinking about making the mask cobra leather I just think it will look better darker. I started trying and ink wash of smokey ink thinking it was the equivilant of the much praised tamiya snokey ink. However even after much shaking it had the consistancy of poop. And after dilluting it allot with water it seemed to seperate and clump together like algee and was brown. So I abandoned it and tryed black ink which was ink. And I think it worked better. All I did was dillute in in water and this was the effect.





I attribute these results to two things that I can think of using one heavy coat and the models really arn't that detailed so a not much in the way of crevices for it to seek out.

Other things I didn't do that I have heard.
1 adding dishwashing soap to the mix.
2 gloss coating the model.

Are any of those things worth trying?

I plan to add a drybrush of the base colors on top and the highlights still.
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Joined: Jun 13 2006, 04:57 PM

Oct 6 2007, 10:27 PM #2

I really like Vallejo’s Smokey ink, some of the people I know who also use it doesn't get the effect you described but I do too, and it can be quite nice actually, if you know about it before you paint with it. Mess around with it some more and eventually you'll learn how to best use it.

And dishwashing soap is great, I add it to all of my inks and washes (I add a drop of it to every bottle of GW ink I buy, it's harder with the Vallejo bottles so with them I mix in a tiny bit when I've got the ink on the palette, you really don’t need much for it to be effective, just mix it in well)

Keep experimenting :thumbup:
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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Oct 6 2007, 10:52 PM #3

Is there a flavor of soap that is best? I'm just cautious about my models being pine scented.

well I practiced some more and still got what is called "high water marks". I tryed some dishwahing soap and thinner coats.

But I remembered about an article a hobbyhawk member had made a while ago and after rereading them I'm off to the store for some flow aid and [Warning No Swearing] tommorrow after church.

http://hobbyhawk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0
http://hobbyhawk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=218
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Joined: Jun 13 2006, 04:57 PM

Oct 7 2007, 07:56 AM #4

Can't follow any of the links since I'm not a member of that site....

But I've heard good stuff about both of the above mentioned stuff too, I've just never come across it in Sweden so I stick with dishwashing soap, it doesn't matter what kind (mine makes the models smell quite nice, which I consider a plus :vryhppy:). The reason for adding it is because it breakes the surface tension of the paint, which will leave you with (at least) less visible "tide marks".
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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Oct 16 2007, 03:17 AM #5

Well I did some more experimenting. And both products (flow aid and [Warning No Swearing]) work great but due to the nature of the products if you wash the entire model at once and then stand it up all the ink flows to the feet. Doh.



So the next experiment (same products flow aid on the left and [Warning No Swearing] on the right) would due just the front of the model and let them dry on thier backs.



The [Warning No Swearing] was leagues better in transitioning shades and on the edges where I stopped shadeing it abruptly stopped unlike the flow aid which pooled on the side. So since I wasn't looking for a super finish only a product that can easily be manipulated by a dummy like myself [Warning No Swearing] won. And now I'm anothe r [Warning No Swearing] convert.

Real quick here are some better pictures of the tidemarks I was experiencing with just soap and water thinned models.





So I put the base coat on my first two kriegers. I'll start inking tommorrow. My only worry is if ... when I mess up with the [Warning No Swearing] Ican't just wipe it away and it might fill all the detail making repainting messy. Right now they sacrifices to the false gods but some day they will be assembled.







OK shameless add. I hate glueing dirt to my bases it always falls of is a mess on my desk. And mainly slows down the converting paining process. So since I had already spent a truck load on these models I [I Swear Too Much] I'd go all out and get some custom bases made. Dragonforge over at hobby hawk was mode than happy to help and custom made the entire range for me with matching detail. Even a super big base for my 6 medium arty guns. I got 145 small 25mm, 12 calvary, 10 monster, and 6 super bases for a great price. Alot of money but allot of bases and worth it if you already spent a bunch on FW stuff. So if you have any custom basing needs drop him a line.

http://www.dragonforge.com/Painting%20s ... _bases.htm



Maybe I should have had him paint em. haha
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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Oct 17 2007, 12:13 AM #6

Yahoo I inked my two kriegers today and I am very happy with the results. [Warning No Swearing] is the key and even a doofus like me can do it





So I glued the arms on. The left arm juts back a litte wierd. I think I can cover it with the backpack. Anyone else encounter this?



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Joined: May 21 2005, 03:40 PM

Oct 17 2007, 12:39 AM #7

Looking really good Mech. Nice to see you made it back home all in one piece.
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Joined: Sep 12 2007, 04:06 AM

Oct 17 2007, 12:44 AM #8

wow that is gret!

good job I love the DKK..im gonna get some soon..i hope

keep up the updates
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Joined: Dec 3 2005, 12:07 AM

Oct 17 2007, 02:11 AM #9

If you like [Warning No Swearing] Floor Wax, you'll love Min Wax Poly-shades.

I did about 32 Kroot, 120 skellies and 25 Tomb Guard in about two weeks with the stuff. A buddy of mine did a 1750pt drop troop army w/ it in about a month. His painting score was fourth highest at the last RTT.

I've even used it on my Orcs- thinned down. Once dry, then I paint over it w/ about 4 or 5 high lights. Antique Walnut makes a perfect shade over Catachan Green, Bleached Bone, Red and Bestial.

Anyways, glad to see you're back. Can't wait for more updates.
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Joined: Dec 22 2006, 02:01 PM

Oct 17 2007, 02:15 AM #10

[Warning No Swearing] wax is easily removed with Windex or glass cleaner type stuff.
Medals are OK, but having your body and all your friends in one piece at the end of the day is better. - My Dad
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Joined: Apr 21 2007, 08:51 AM

Oct 17 2007, 08:56 AM #11

So You used [Warning No Swearing] first and black Ink afterwards?
Ever tried Tamiya X-19 Smoke? You would save on painting step, because it is not necessary to use [Warning No Swearing] befor inking.
...too many Tanks? You NEVER have enough Tanks!

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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Oct 17 2007, 01:38 PM #12

redram:
I dillute the ink with [Warning No Swearing] 1 drop of ink to 15 dropps [Warning No Swearing]. And apply in 1 coat but at different times on different places on the model.

Kugelblitz:
Ah thanks I'll be sure to try that.

no-use4a-name:
Glad to be back and believe me no one is happier than me. Question though I assume you dip your models or at least do the whole thing at once, so how do you keep the finish from running to thier feet?

Lt. Walke:
Boy is it good to be back.
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Joined: Dec 3 2005, 12:07 AM

Oct 17 2007, 07:57 PM #13

Well, I first cut the MinWax and put a small amount in an empty paint pot. I don't actually dip. Using a cheap or old brush, I paint it on over the base coats.

I'll post an example ASAP. I'm off to my son's soccer game
Laters
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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Oct 18 2007, 06:27 PM #14

Well I did some more work today. I ran out and bought som stuff to immitate the stapler pin wash method on my first test tank. I quickly painted it up the tamiya light tan looks too orangey and will not be used on the real tanks. I hastily painted the tracks and did touch ups with desert yellow which is not compatible though it looks perfectwhen wet. And I aplied a nice coat of krylon crystal clear for my smooth gloss coat. Although I would love to have an airbrush I'm trying to convince myself I don't need one. (I've spent enough already with no end in sight)



And I went to the hobby store with the shopping list kindly provided by stapler. And [I Swear Too Much] my hobby shop does not sell tamiya x-20 enamel thinner only x-20A acrylic thinner. Not knowing if acrylic thinner would do the same trick with acrylic paint I went for tamiya laquer thinner. Not knowing the difference. :blink: And they didn't even sell tamiya enamels they have a great selection of paints so I just [I Swear Too Much] a simple black enamel from model masters. Well sure enough the products are not compatible. The thinner disolved the paint into little algee like pebbles that rapidly sank to the bottom of the pallet.



Instantly I knew this would not work but this being an experiment I continued on. FOR SCIENCE. And spread it into the cracks and for the most part it did go in the cracks, still all grainy. But the real experiment would be if it wiped up. And in the next picture you can see on the far right I ran up and down the panel line and curiously enough it did not rub away the tinner which sort of caked like super glue it instead rubbed through the gloss coat and the base coat to quickly show the plasic color. Interesting that the rignally laquered areas did notdisolve anything but instead created a laquer proof barrier. Curious but a dismal failure. When Stapler reads this (I hope he doesn''t laugh too hard) I ask would acrylic thinner work with an arrylic ink/paint? If not what is a comercially available enamal thinner? I'm sure I'll just go scour walmart again.





Conclusion these two products are not compatible to acheive the stapler pin wash technique. You have been warned.

But back to my real krieg guys I [I Swear Too Much] adding the back packs e-tools and those stupid extra shoulder pads. Yep I already lost one. You other kriegers know what I'm talking about. I also aplied my decals which came in the mail yesterday. Kind note for FW they accidentally sent me the old IG decal sheets before, and when I emailed them about it they sent me the right ones no strings. Good coustomer service. Anyways I dullcoated them (thin) in anticipation of drybrushing them, but I think the color difference looks great the way it is now. so I glued them onto thier bases and they await the final sealants. Check out the cool skull on the one base.


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Joined: Jul 15 2007, 06:54 AM

Oct 19 2007, 12:12 AM #15

man those are fantastic!
the effect is really nice and im glad you dulled em down... I wish they sold this stuff in NZ so I could do it to my kriegers too...
I spend about 5 hour on each model... far to much time I say :mellow:
anyways looks really good and this as an army would look really really nice on a table,
Cheers :thumbup:
Grow old or die trying...
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Joined: May 21 2005, 03:40 PM

Oct 19 2007, 03:26 AM #16

Better and better.
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Joined: Feb 23 2006, 10:51 PM

Oct 19 2007, 11:29 PM #17

I am amazed for the level of detail of those figures, and the way they are looking. I love them!!!!!!
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Joined: Feb 13 2006, 09:54 PM

Oct 31 2007, 03:16 AM #18

Looks pretty sharpe so far..and thanks for the Pimp by the way!
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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Nov 12 2007, 03:50 PM #19

No Prob Dragonforge.

Whew been a long time since I updated. Been playing Ace Combat 6 allot :D . But I did some more experementing I did get some better enamel thiner (the testors stuff) and I think it worked well...ish. I think again on a model without allot of detail most of the effect is lost, ie no rivets. But I started playing with my MIG pigment set and need some help. This is a [I Swear Too Much] out to all out Spanish modelers, or anyone familiar with MIG pigments (heres looking at you Ultramar). The first experiment I di I mixed the standard rust with mineral spirits and it became a nice ..paint.. and it covered well and was consistant. I painted it over the still yellow/tan exhaust and these are the results.



But I finally got my MIG FAQ book back the other day and started reading again. Great book lots of pictures not enough words so I get lost real easy on what hes mixing with what. But I was trying to emulate this exhaust from his book.



So I [I Swear Too Much] his pictures the best I could this time I painted the exhaust a mix or red and charred earth. [I Swear Too Much] by some "positive chips" as he calls them of yellow and black. Then I proceeded to do the mineral spirit mix of rust again but it didn't [Warning No Swearing] like it did before the pigments just sank to the bottom. Agravated I applied it anyways and the dry applied some light rust in random spots. Then I did the dry application of the smoke on the pipe.



I think it turned out ok but I was never convinced at any step that my model looked like his pictures. Is this good or a series of random flks that look ok.

Other updates I got the rest of the squad on pins, the bases are almost done, need rust and barbed wire. And need to start the arms and such, haha I only painted the bodies.
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Joined: Mar 20 2006, 12:57 PM

Nov 12 2007, 05:33 PM #20

Ahhhhh... Miguel "MIG" Jiménez book.... I would never get tired of reading it again and again :) (If only Marijn Van Gils made another book, I'll be completely happy :)).

What I precisely like from this book is that he doesn't give exact recipes or proportions, it is more than a WIP that let you experiment and learn on the way (if you are a treadhead, you'll like this book, seriously).

Having said that, I really like the effect you got, it is not exactly like in the pics, but remember that the pics in the book are done with different light, camera, etc. than yours... In fact it's your very own effect.

The problem with this precise pic is that for the moment being, this is the only weathered part of the model... the overall effect is obviously weird. Once you have consistently weathered the whole model, you'll see that everything works together.

Ah, if you want barbed wire, I have a web page somewhere with a really good technique...

Cheers: Ultra
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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Nov 12 2007, 08:23 PM #21

It is an awesome book I'm glad you recommended it to us so many months ago. I seriously ordered it not 10 minutes after you said the name.

I think you are right and the more I look at it the more I like it. It does look better in pics than real life (like that ever happens)

What other weathering techniques of his would you recommend. Most of them he says to avoid with light tan paint schemes. I do love his oil spils and will try that but for over all on the tank what can I do other than a wash?

On the barbed wire I bought 3 of the FW etched brass sprues cause I just didn't want to have to mak a super lot of wire. I do saftey wire on my job so I know I could do it and do it well but I think the FW stuff is pretty good.
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Joined: Oct 19 2005, 09:23 PM

Nov 14 2007, 01:28 AM #22

Ok Update I still haven't [I Swear Too Much] out what to mix the pigments with to get a consistant ... paint... they keep looking like this. All settleing to the bottom. What do I use?



Well I tried adding more to the rest of the tank and was suprisingly pleased. Being [I Swear Too Much] up with the enamal thinner inking method I chose to experiment with some brown ink and that Liquetex flow aid. I guess I made just thinner runnier ink. I first experimented to see it it could be applied to the whole model so as to add some color to the flat plain surfaces. Well that doesn't work it just pools in wierd spots but if controled and put in crevices it fills and shades nicely and can be wiped with you finger to remove extra (though a cloth would work too). So I reinke and liked the look. Then I tryed some simple chipped paint. They always say its easy to get carried away but I like this amount of chips ... maybe a little less.



Then I tried some oil stains I learned not to let it bead cause it will dry and shrivel up into a wierd circle. So next time I will use less thinned ink and dry up most of the excess. I was just playing around but the effect is cool I think.



I still need something to break up the flat sooth colored panels. I would love to do rain marks or some smearing but I can't [I Swear Too Much] a technique that uses acryic paint. So I [I Swear Too Much] I'd try my second test model useing the last two techniques that I was pleased with, but first drybrush the model white/bleached bone. Since I know I can do that. It was barely noticable so thats out the window. But I wanted to try the paint chips with a second layer like I saw in a book that I liked. So I added chips in white/bleached bone and then the charred earth over it. If I got carried away before I did 3X that this time around. Needless to say if you over do the first layer the second is nuts too so I'm going to go back to one layer. I don't like the british water color chips. It almost looks like a camo pattern.



So does anyone know any rain mark techniques that use only acrylics?

Wowa I just noticed the coolest thing I was picking at the latest brown acrylic wash on my panzer 2 (which had been gloss coated before aplication of the wash) and guess what it wiped off. Completely dry it wiped off with just the moisture from my finger so sitting here playing with it I was able to clean up the front which I had saturated and wiped away those oil stains that had dried poorly. Super cool. So I can kiss that enamal thinner wash technique goodby for good. Yeay.
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Joined: Feb 13 2006, 09:54 PM

Nov 14 2007, 06:22 AM #23

By the way that Tamiya Lacqure thinner that you picked up, actually thins Tamaya Acrilis perfictly. This was an explination given to me about thinning tamiya paints by Adam Wilder who works for Mig Productions..
Tamiya acrylics are not acrylics. Tamiya advertises them as acrylics so they will appear safer for children and families. Making the paint look safer to children will broaden the customer range. Tamiya simply wants to sell more paints. That is why Tamiya offers an alcohol type thinner for thier paints. But actually the alcohol is not the best means of thinning Tamiya paints. That is why Tamiya manufactures the lacquer thinner in the bottle with the yellow cap.

All paints are made up of two basic components. The pigments and the agglutinant. In fact, it is actually the type of agglutinant that gives oils, enamels, water colors, pastels and acrylics their different properties. The agglutinant in oils and enamels is a type of oil. The agglutinant in actual acrylics is a type of resin. The agglutinant in pastels is a something called Arabic rubber.

The agglutinant used in Tamiya paints is actually unique. You can thin Tamiya with alcohol or even water without destroying it. You can also to some extent thin Tamiya paints with enamel thinners. MIG told me that you can actually successfully mix Tamiya colors with Humbrol enamels. The mix might not be as effective as mixing enamels with oils but it can be done.

Actual acrylics such as Vallejo again have a type of resin agglutinant. If you try to thin Vallejo, an actual acrylic, with alcohol it will destroy the paint.

Again, Tamiya manufactures the lacquer thinner specifically for their paints. I have been thinning the Tamiya paints to about 60 lacquer thinner and 40 paint.
You can thin Tamiya Buff with 90% thinner 10 percent paint to get those rain marks.

As for Mig pigments, Mig Productions sells a thinner designed to work with them, they also just released a setting solution. I use them a lot to weather put on dry, but they can't be dull coated or they just dissapear. You will never get them to disslove like a paint also. think of them as being suspended in a carrier like real mud in water, once the water dries you have dirt and crud in the cracks and creavaces.

Do you have an airbrush? I think you told me you did, after you paint your tanks with Acrylics and allow them to dry a few days, get a enamel like Humbrol enamels in a brown/gray color and thin down 90% enamel thinner to paint.. you just want a hint of color. Spray your tank lightly with it, allowing coats to dry in between. This acts as a filter and richens the colors you applied inder.

Washes over acrylics should also be enamel based, and only in detail areas as pin washed. Mig productions have recently come out with washs pre mixed but probably wont hit the states untill mid december. Ive ordered some from the UK and hope to have them soon.
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Joined: Mar 20 2006, 12:57 PM

Nov 14 2007, 12:16 PM #24

Very nice scratches, man... now it has a lot of character!

I think that the most important part of weathering a vehicle, is to keep always in mind the kind of weather conditions it has suffered and during how much time.

For instance... your tank is painted on a tan colour... an observer would visually tie this paint scheme to a desert or dry plain area without too much vegetation (well, this being Warhammer, you can say that it operates on a planet with radically different plants than on Earth, but the first impression will be "desert").

The kind of weathering you can expect in sunny, dry climates with a lot of dust could be:

- [I Swear Too Much] coulours on upper surfaces (due to the sun effect): Using oils and blending them to change the base colour.
- Deteriorated paint due to sun and temperature changes (cracked, textured) impacts and dust (chipped), and on places used by the cre (handles, the places where the crew walk to access the vehicle, etc.).
- Heavy rust on the mufflers (due to the temperature), some (very little) rust points on some paint chips: Use pigments over rust colours, just add less turpentine to the dry pigments, you'll obtain a thicker "paint" on first stages. [Warning No Swearing] applications should have the consistency of washes.
- You could add rain marks (for the odd rain sometimes) but being painted in tan colour, the will be nearly invisible. Use the technique Dragonforge pointed to you, but first practice a little on some old model, it's trickier than it seems.
- A lot of dust inside recesses and on some horizontal surfaces. Choose a very light shade of pigment, as the base coluor is already very light.
- Oil and [Warning No Swearing] spills.

The order is also important. The effects are layered depending on their overall age.

You should also use two different techniques to gain chromatic variety (Filters) and make shadows (washes). I strongly recommend using mineral spirits or turpentine for them (Use odourless turpentine or white spirit, it's a bit expensive, but it'll last for years and you could work under the very noses of your family/parents/wife without any complaints!!!!).
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Joined: Aug 6 2007, 10:51 PM

Nov 15 2007, 09:22 PM #25

Where do you see the process for the paint? I love the look.
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