Time to be honest

Time to be honest

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

March 31st, 2012, 2:02 pm #1

The psychology of morality
Time to be honest
A simple experiment suggests a way to encourage truthfulness

Mar 31st 2012

"IS SIN original?" That is the question addressed by Shaul Shalvi, a psychologist at the University of Amsterdam, in a paper just published in Psychological Science. Dr Shalvi and his colleagues, Ori Eldar and Yoella Bereby-Meyer of Ben-Gurion University in Israel, wanted to know if the impulse to cheat is something that grows or diminishes when the potential cheater has time for reflection on his actions. Is cheating, in other words, instinctive or calculating?

Appropriately, the researchers' apparatus for their experiment was that icon of sinful activity, the gambling die. They wanted to find out whether people were more likely to lie about the result of a die roll when asked that result immediately, or when given time to think.

To carry out their experiment, Dr Shalvi, Dr Eldar and Dr Bereby-Meyer gave each of 76 volunteers a six-sided die and a cup. Participants were told that a number of them, chosen at random, would earn ten shekels (about $2.50) for each pip of the numeral they rolled on the die. They were then instructed to shake their cups, check the outcome of the rolled die and remember this roll. Next, they were asked to roll the die two more times, to satisfy themselves that it was not loaded, and, that done, to enter the result of the first roll on a computer terminal. Half of the participants were told to complete this procedure within 20 seconds while the others were given no time limit.

The researchers had no way of knowing what numbers participants actually rolled, of course. But they knew, statistically, that the average roll, if people reported honestly, should have been 3.5. This gave them a baseline from which to calculate participants' honesty. Those forced to enter their results within 20 seconds, the researchers found, reported a mean roll of 4.6. Those who were not under any time pressure reported a mean roll of 3.9. Both groups lied, then. But those who had had more time for reflection lied less.

A second experiment confirmed this result. A different bunch of volunteers were asked to roll the die just once. Again, half were put under time pressure and, since there were no additional rolls to make, the restriction was changed from 20 seconds to eight. The others were allowed to consider the matter for as long as they wished.

In this case the first half reported an average roll of 4.4. Those given no time limit reported an average of 3.4. The second lot, in other words, actually told the truth.

The conclusion, therefore, at least in the matter of cheating at dice, is that sin is indeed original. Without time for reflection, people will default to the mode labelled "cheat". Given such time, however, they will often do the right thing. If you want someone to be honest, then, do not press him too hard for an immediate decision.

###
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

March 31st, 2012, 3:01 pm #2

The Bible is not a book for just anyone, but those who recognize themselves in it: What I means is the soul who has reached a certain level of evilution will come to the questions NATURALLY that only the Bible can answer: IF the soul has not reached this level of evilution then the questions aren't there to ask and there can be NO ANSWER for questions that are not there:


so, if someone is in their evolution and content with their development and see a lot of 'things out there' to explore and understand, they are content to be in this world and find all it has to offer:


the Bible is for those who truly and irrevocably have come to the END of their desire for this world and this level of evolution that they are on: they no longer find any taste for this world and for their animate state of existence as RELEVANT in the scheme of things: One actually must come to a place where he would rather be dead than to continue in this state and then he is ready for another LEVEl and then the Bible will help him:

till then, it is just a book of confusion and brings those who DESIRE THIS WORLD into WAR for it: In other words it gives the ego a bigger desire to fight for this world and this only makes one less like God than more:
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

March 31st, 2012, 3:07 pm #3

But no apologies needed.

peace
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Iceman
Iceman

March 31st, 2012, 11:07 pm #4

The Bible is not a book for just anyone, but those who recognize themselves in it: What I means is the soul who has reached a certain level of evilution will come to the questions NATURALLY that only the Bible can answer: IF the soul has not reached this level of evilution then the questions aren't there to ask and there can be NO ANSWER for questions that are not there:


so, if someone is in their evolution and content with their development and see a lot of 'things out there' to explore and understand, they are content to be in this world and find all it has to offer:


the Bible is for those who truly and irrevocably have come to the END of their desire for this world and this level of evolution that they are on: they no longer find any taste for this world and for their animate state of existence as RELEVANT in the scheme of things: One actually must come to a place where he would rather be dead than to continue in this state and then he is ready for another LEVEl and then the Bible will help him:

till then, it is just a book of confusion and brings those who DESIRE THIS WORLD into WAR for it: In other words it gives the ego a bigger desire to fight for this world and this only makes one less like God than more:
Not sure about the entire content of the post. What I am sure of is "y" believes we should understand the "message" of scripture.

I think "y" has energy and beauty -she strives to convey her message. Getting lost in her conveyaince is pretty easy. None the less her insistence is founded upon her experiences of her life.

However, No one knows what those experiences are.. We ubderstand how she searced out for knowledge of those experiences - went to school, educations, etc. But beyond that we just don't know.

And is one personal experince a proof of some spectaciular force. This has been hassled with by the greatest of minds. Our Courts and Medical Professions remain perplexed in dealing with the experences of people who lay such claims.
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 1st, 2012, 3:51 am #5

The psychology of morality
Time to be honest
A simple experiment suggests a way to encourage truthfulness

Mar 31st 2012

"IS SIN original?" That is the question addressed by Shaul Shalvi, a psychologist at the University of Amsterdam, in a paper just published in Psychological Science. Dr Shalvi and his colleagues, Ori Eldar and Yoella Bereby-Meyer of Ben-Gurion University in Israel, wanted to know if the impulse to cheat is something that grows or diminishes when the potential cheater has time for reflection on his actions. Is cheating, in other words, instinctive or calculating?

Appropriately, the researchers' apparatus for their experiment was that icon of sinful activity, the gambling die. They wanted to find out whether people were more likely to lie about the result of a die roll when asked that result immediately, or when given time to think.

To carry out their experiment, Dr Shalvi, Dr Eldar and Dr Bereby-Meyer gave each of 76 volunteers a six-sided die and a cup. Participants were told that a number of them, chosen at random, would earn ten shekels (about $2.50) for each pip of the numeral they rolled on the die. They were then instructed to shake their cups, check the outcome of the rolled die and remember this roll. Next, they were asked to roll the die two more times, to satisfy themselves that it was not loaded, and, that done, to enter the result of the first roll on a computer terminal. Half of the participants were told to complete this procedure within 20 seconds while the others were given no time limit.

The researchers had no way of knowing what numbers participants actually rolled, of course. But they knew, statistically, that the average roll, if people reported honestly, should have been 3.5. This gave them a baseline from which to calculate participants' honesty. Those forced to enter their results within 20 seconds, the researchers found, reported a mean roll of 4.6. Those who were not under any time pressure reported a mean roll of 3.9. Both groups lied, then. But those who had had more time for reflection lied less.

A second experiment confirmed this result. A different bunch of volunteers were asked to roll the die just once. Again, half were put under time pressure and, since there were no additional rolls to make, the restriction was changed from 20 seconds to eight. The others were allowed to consider the matter for as long as they wished.

In this case the first half reported an average roll of 4.4. Those given no time limit reported an average of 3.4. The second lot, in other words, actually told the truth.

The conclusion, therefore, at least in the matter of cheating at dice, is that sin is indeed original. Without time for reflection, people will default to the mode labelled "cheat". Given such time, however, they will often do the right thing. If you want someone to be honest, then, do not press him too hard for an immediate decision.

###
Great.

Define what "sin" is supposed to be, find its essence, then see whether it is "instintive" or "calculative" in nature.

I did.

 

- the essence of truth : axiomatic


rejected and denied by many, accepted and embraced by few : falsifiability
- it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
as the maxim demands; truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true
everything else ... mere BS -


New!! Improved!! Now With CD-Formula!!


CD: short for inevitability
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 1st, 2012, 7:14 am #6

But no apologies needed.

peace
 

There are people/posters who do not address what they respond to, for whatever reason, or only partially; being in danger of committing the infamous straw man fallacy, when stating (alleged) fact, or shift the emphasis; thus committing an actual fallacy known as accent, or, well ... I could go on and on, but let's not eh?


rejected and denied by many, accepted and embraced by few : falsifiability
- it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
as the maxim demands; truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true
everything else ... mere BS -


New!! Improved!! Now With CD-Formula!!


CD: short for inevitability
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QUITTNER
QUITTNER

April 16th, 2012, 4:15 pm #7

The psychology of morality
Time to be honest
A simple experiment suggests a way to encourage truthfulness

Mar 31st 2012

"IS SIN original?" That is the question addressed by Shaul Shalvi, a psychologist at the University of Amsterdam, in a paper just published in Psychological Science. Dr Shalvi and his colleagues, Ori Eldar and Yoella Bereby-Meyer of Ben-Gurion University in Israel, wanted to know if the impulse to cheat is something that grows or diminishes when the potential cheater has time for reflection on his actions. Is cheating, in other words, instinctive or calculating?

Appropriately, the researchers' apparatus for their experiment was that icon of sinful activity, the gambling die. They wanted to find out whether people were more likely to lie about the result of a die roll when asked that result immediately, or when given time to think.

To carry out their experiment, Dr Shalvi, Dr Eldar and Dr Bereby-Meyer gave each of 76 volunteers a six-sided die and a cup. Participants were told that a number of them, chosen at random, would earn ten shekels (about $2.50) for each pip of the numeral they rolled on the die. They were then instructed to shake their cups, check the outcome of the rolled die and remember this roll. Next, they were asked to roll the die two more times, to satisfy themselves that it was not loaded, and, that done, to enter the result of the first roll on a computer terminal. Half of the participants were told to complete this procedure within 20 seconds while the others were given no time limit.

The researchers had no way of knowing what numbers participants actually rolled, of course. But they knew, statistically, that the average roll, if people reported honestly, should have been 3.5. This gave them a baseline from which to calculate participants' honesty. Those forced to enter their results within 20 seconds, the researchers found, reported a mean roll of 4.6. Those who were not under any time pressure reported a mean roll of 3.9. Both groups lied, then. But those who had had more time for reflection lied less.

A second experiment confirmed this result. A different bunch of volunteers were asked to roll the die just once. Again, half were put under time pressure and, since there were no additional rolls to make, the restriction was changed from 20 seconds to eight. The others were allowed to consider the matter for as long as they wished.

In this case the first half reported an average roll of 4.4. Those given no time limit reported an average of 3.4. The second lot, in other words, actually told the truth.

The conclusion, therefore, at least in the matter of cheating at dice, is that sin is indeed original. Without time for reflection, people will default to the mode labelled "cheat". Given such time, however, they will often do the right thing. If you want someone to be honest, then, do not press him too hard for an immediate decision.

###
In the days of Jesus what we now call leaders of a religion was then the government, and the laws of religion were the laws of the land.
..... What we now call a sin is equivalent to doing something that is against the law, and being a sinner means having a criminal record. Baptism was wiping out all past criminal records so that after baptism they were sinless. Members of the churches in Jesus' time were pledged to remain sinless, meaning to live a life within the law - always!
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