There are many things you can't prove with logic

There are many things you can't prove with logic

Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

April 30th, 2010, 5:02 am #1


Noob wrote on a far off place:

"The best things in life cannot be proven, they can only be experienced.
Seems that the same is true for God... Interesting."

 

These are some of the most profound words I have read in a long time. It almost goes hand in hand with some other words I always liked from John Lennon from his song Beautiful Boy: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans".

Life is about experience and God is about experience. JB
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 30th, 2010, 9:42 am #2

The words quoted are ambiguous in nature and contain assertions not shown true, yet, are considered profound.

How does ambiguous and not shown true equal profound?



____________________________________________
Causation; source of one of the most committed fallacies
- the invalid assumption that correlation infers cause


People are intrinsically intelligent
When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such




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Joined: June 13th, 2006, 12:37 am

April 30th, 2010, 9:46 am #3

Noob wrote on a far off place:

"The best things in life cannot be proven, they can only be experienced.
Seems that the same is true for God... Interesting."

 

These are some of the most profound words I have read in a long time. It almost goes hand in hand with some other words I always liked from John Lennon from his song Beautiful Boy: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans".

Life is about experience and God is about experience. JB
There are some who rather ignorantly seem to think that human logic is the "be all to end all."

Pastor Jack Howell
"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



MY BLOG


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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

April 30th, 2010, 9:51 am #4

The words quoted are ambiguous in nature and contain assertions not shown true, yet, are considered profound.

How does ambiguous and not shown true equal profound?



____________________________________________
Causation; source of one of the most committed fallacies
- the invalid assumption that correlation infers cause


People are intrinsically intelligent
When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such




New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
Communicating with clarity & precision through the ambiguities of natural language some aspect of the human condition that cannot be shown and proven by logic, only experienced.

That is poetry, that is art, that is music, that is beauty, that is the nature of the divine.

I wouldn't trade it for anything.




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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 30th, 2010, 12:03 pm #5

Don't you have a problem with the direct internal contradiction in one of your contentions --> clarity & precision and ambiguities do not seem to go together very well?

Aren't we supposed to show true what we pose as true --> that is the nature of the divine?



___
When dealing with abstractions
one should treat them as such
If not, one is mistaken, dishonest
or ...... but let's not go there


___
Causation; source of one of the most committed fallacies
- the invalid assumption that correlation infers cause


People are intrinsically intelligent
When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such




New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

April 30th, 2010, 12:16 pm #6

The words quoted are ambiguous in nature and contain assertions not shown true, yet, are considered profound.

How does ambiguous and not shown true equal profound?



____________________________________________
Causation; source of one of the most committed fallacies
- the invalid assumption that correlation infers cause


People are intrinsically intelligent
When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such




New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
sour grapes? The experience trascends logic and allows someone to show empathy when they see it in others. Life is filled with lessons one can only gain from experience. May I pass on my sympathy. JB
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

April 30th, 2010, 12:23 pm #7

There are some who rather ignorantly seem to think that human logic is the "be all to end all."

Pastor Jack Howell
"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



MY BLOG


Proper Principles of Bible Study



<img alt="Documents" src="http://www.scribd.com/images/badges/but ... uments.gif">











devoid of compassion and the Lord is gracious and full of compassion, slow to anger and great in mercy (Psalm 145:8). On this I think we both agree. JB
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 30th, 2010, 12:37 pm #8

sour grapes? The experience trascends logic and allows someone to show empathy when they see it in others. Life is filled with lessons one can only gain from experience. May I pass on my sympathy. JB
sour grapes gone bad?

When we comment on content of posts, that is exactly what it is: comment on content of posts, not on you: the poster. How could we possibly do the latter since, generally spoken, we don't know you personally. We therefore can merely do the former, which stands to reason, because such is the nature of message boards, forums etc.: basicallly letters behind a screen.

Granted, those letters are most likely typed and posted by an actual human being with real feelings, emotions, and intentions, something we may not disregard of course. However, at the end of the day, this here forum is a forum; a means to communicate through symbols such as letters, pics, clips, soundbites etc., which is not the same as face to face inter-human exchange including voice-connotation and non-verbal body language such as postures, signs, i.e., gestures, and facial expressions which accounts for about 75 % of our language.

Due to the limited nature of communication intrinsic to forums and such, users are all handicapped likewise since all they basically have are letters behind a screen. They are thus the same. Prejudice ceases to have meaning.
On the forum, all are equal.

Isn't that wonderful?


__________________________________
- feelings do not think, thoughts do not feel
and the human brain can only comprehend
three categories to put information in


People are intrinsically intelligent
When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such




New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
Last edited by JVH on April 30th, 2010, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

April 30th, 2010, 12:59 pm #9

Don't you have a problem with the direct internal contradiction in one of your contentions --> clarity & precision and ambiguities do not seem to go together very well?

Aren't we supposed to show true what we pose as true --> that is the nature of the divine?



___
When dealing with abstractions
one should treat them as such
If not, one is mistaken, dishonest
or ...... but let's not go there


___
Causation; source of one of the most committed fallacies
- the invalid assumption that correlation infers cause


People are intrinsically intelligent
When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such




New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
In a court of law, we have one standard.

In an academic debate, we have a different standard.

In scientific terms of theories and proofs, we have yet another standard.

In explaining our life experiences and what we find meaning, there is a fourth standard.

In religious and spiritual thing, there are too many standards to count.

In political terms, it seems dubious to even claim a standard.

Apply the same standard of logic and showing truth seems a tragic and fatal flaw. But that is my personal view on the matter, and I tend to gravitate towards understanding and working with 2 or 3 standards.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

April 30th, 2010, 1:23 pm #10

There are some who rather ignorantly seem to think that human logic is the "be all to end all."

Pastor Jack Howell
"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



MY BLOG


Proper Principles of Bible Study



<img alt="Documents" src="http://www.scribd.com/images/badges/but ... uments.gif">











Yet try to prove unprovable things through logic. Like "God", "emotion", "consciousness" and so on ..

I see this contradiction often from "believers". They try to prove what can't be proven, and then claim they proved it anyway.
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