The Trinity-Satan's False Doctrine

The Trinity-Satan's False Doctrine

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

May 19th, 2010, 3:17 am #1

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/adria ... trine.html

"Do Not Cling To Me, For I Have Not Yet Ascended To My Father, But Go To My Brethren And Say To Them, I Am Ascending To My Father And Your Father, And To My God And Your God."
John 20:17

The Trinity-Satan's False Doctrine
Jesus Christ Is God's Son!

Would it surprise you to know that one of the most prominent doctrines in Christianity today has no basis in scripture? The doctrine of the "Holy Trinity" considered by many to be essential to one's very salvation, is not found in Christianity until at least three hundred years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Even more shocking is the fact that the concept of a triune godhead likely comes from the traditions of paganism!

AN ANCIENT STATUE OF THE HINDU TRINITY

Keep in mind that there are many sincere believers in the trinity doctrine and not all are just mindless followers of a tradition. While there are numerous scriptures that show Jesus to be just who he said he was, the SON of God, there are a handful of New Testament scriptures that might, IF taken out of context, cause one to conclude that Jesus is himself God.

THE MAIN CAUSE OF THE CONFUSION

There seems to be a lack of attention paid to the things that the Bible says about Jesus in his pre-human existence. Scripture tells us that Jesus was the "Logos," or in English, the "Word," at the beginning of creation. It is the role that he possessed prior to his earthly ministry which causes many to falsely conclude that he is not only the Son of God, but indeed is God.

SCRIPTURE SHOWS JESUS WAS CREATED BY GOD

"THESE THINGS SAYS THE AMEN, THE FAITHFUL AND TRUE WITNESS, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD."
REVELATION 3:14

We are taught in the Bible that the Heavenly Father is without beginning and without end. Jesus Christ in his own words claims to be God's first, or "chief" creation. According to the Apostle John, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON." (John 3:16) If Jesus was "begotten" some other being must have "beget" him. According to Webster's Dictionary, "Beget" means to be the "FATHER OR TO SIRE. To bring into being." This being the case, a higher power must have created Jesus.

In examining the account of creation as written in the book of Genesis, it is clear that the Heavenly Father employed a helper in the creation process. "Let US make man in our image, according to our likeness, let them have dominion over the the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." (Genesis 1:26) It is our contention that Jesus Christ in his pre-human form was this very helper.

"THINGS WERE MADE THROUGH HIM"

The gospel of the Apostle John tells us that "All things were made THROUGH him, (Jesus) and without him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3) The majority of translations use the word "through," which is wrongly translated in the original King James Bible as "all things were made by him." If all things were made through him, this indicates that he was carrying out orders that had been delegated by a higher authority. Jesus acted as Jehovah's agency and is the one who dealt directly with mankind in the Old Testament.

JESUS IS THE "ARM" OF JEHOVAH"

There are numerous scriptures that speak of Jehovah's Holy "arm." When one examines the context of these verses it becomes clear that this "arm" is Jesus Christ. In speaking of the coming redeemer, "therefore his own arm brought salvation FOR him." (Isaiah 59:16) "The Lord has made bare his Holy arm in the eyes of all nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see his salvation." (Isaiah 52:10) "Behold, the Lord God shall come with a strong hand, and his arm shall rule over them." (Isaiah 40:10) "And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (John 12:38) and (Isaiah 53:1) Jesus serves as the General of Jehovah. He is the one who carries out the will of his Father.

PROVERBS 8TH CHAPTER SPEAKS OF THE ROLE OF OF THE "LOGOS"

To further comprehend the role of the "Logos," turn your Bible to the book of Proverbs the 8th chapter verses 22-31." Verse 30 says, "I was beside him as a master craftsman; and I was daily his delight." Clearly we see here that Jesus was with the Father, but he was separate from the Heavenly Father.

"THE WORD WAS GOD"
JOHN 1:1

For centuries, a poor translation of John 1:1, as well as a misunderstanding of biblical usage for the word "god," has caused millions to wrongly believe in the trinity. In most Bibles, John 1:1 reads "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God." This scripture is the cornerstone of Trinitarian creed.

HOW SHOULD JOHN 1:1 BE TRANSLATED?

The first argument in refuting this interpretation is an appeal to common sense. How could the Word be with God and be God at the same time? If the point here was to say that the Word was God, why bother saying that he was with him? Would not the passage more likely read (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was in all things God?) The very word structure of this passage provides strong evidence for mistranslation.

In an effort to validate their own bias towards the trinity doctrine, it appears that the translators have ignored an obvious distinction between the Logos and the Heavenly Father in John 1:1. The Greek word that is used for god in the passage is theos. In the two uses of the word "god" there is a difference in its usage. In the first use "the Word was with God" the word is ho theos meaning THE God." In the second usage of this verse it is simply theos. Given this, the proper reading of John 1:1 should be "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word." Verse 2 goes on to say, "He was in the beginning with the (ho theos) God."

According to the Strongs Concordance, the Greek word theos, which is numbered 2316 in the Greek dictionary found towards the back of the publication, means "a deity, especially with word (3588) the supreme Divinity." Now let us examine word 3588. This word is the very "ho" placed before the name of God in the first usage in John 1:1.
Given this obvious distinction between theos and ho theos, by the Apostle John, can there be any doubt that Jesus Christ in his pre-human condition was an all together separate being from the God of the universe?

THE HEBREW WORD "ELOHIM"

Numerous times in the Old Testament the Hebrew word elohim is used for the word God. It is often used when referring to the Heavenly Father, but the meaning of elohim is simply "mighty one" or one in authority. Given this, elohim is applied to angels as in Psalm 8:5 "You have made him (the future Messiah) a little lower than the angels (elohim) and have crowned him with glory and honor."

In other instances in the Old Testament elohim is used when speaking of powerful human beings. For instance in Exodus 7:1 Moses is called elohim "See I have made you as God to Pharaoh." Psalm 82:6-7 refers to the saints as elohim "I said you are gods, and all of you are children of the most high God."

FRAUDULENT BIBLICAL PASSAGES IN 1ST JOHN 5:7-8

Further proof that the doctrine of the trinity is false lies in the book of 1st John. Trinitarians have used the words of 1st John 5:7-8 as a key argument for the trinity. "For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one." There is an enormous problem however in using these verses to bolster the trinity doctrine. The passage is not authentic! These words only appear in five later manuscripts and are not found in any of the earlier New Testament texts. These verses are such obvious forgeries that even staunch Trinitarian scholars have been forced to admit as much. Among them are the publishers of the New King James translation and various study bibles.

Let us now take a look at 1st John 5:7-8 in its true context without the spurious passage. "For there are three who bear witness, the spirit, the water, and the blood, and these things agree as one." Upon seeing how these verses are intended to read, it is clear that in no way do they offer a credible argument for the trinity. Now examine verse nine "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God that he has testified in his SON Jesus Christ." Clearly these passages are talking about two separate beings, the Heavenly Father and his only begotten SON Jesus Christ.

"I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE"
JOHN 10:30

Supporters of the trinity often quote the words of Jesus "I and the Father are one" as proof for Jesus' being God in the flesh. Once again they take the words of Jesus completely out of context. If one examines Jesus' own words later on in the very same gospel of John, he explains this oneness.
On the night of his arrest our Lord prayed in the garden of Gethsemane. He prayed vehemently for the well being of his Apostles. He asks God that "they all may be ONE, as you Father, are in me, and I in you; that they also may be ONE in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And the glory which you gave me I have given them, and that they may be ONE just as we are ONE." (John 17:21-22)
Clearly Jesus was not asking his Father to make his apostles one in the same person. He was requesting that they be one in thought, purpose, and deed. Jesus Christ and Jehovah, his God and our God, are indeed one, but it is a oneness in their mission. This oneness of purpose can be compared to having a President and a Vice President. They are not the same literal persons, but they are one in representing the office of the presidency.

"HE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER"
JOHN 14:9

This passage is often used by trinity advocates as another proof that Jesus was claiming to be God. If we are to take this passage literally, there appears to be serious contradiction in Jesus' words in other scriptures. How can Jesus say "he who has seen me has seen the Father" and in another place say "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God; he has seen the Father." (John 6:46) "And the Father himself who sent me, has testified of me. You have neither heard his voice at anytime, nor seen his form." (John 5:37) Or what about the words of John "No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten son, who is in the bosom of the Father has declared him." Then again in (1st John 4:12) "No one has seen God at any time." Thankfully, the scriptures do not contradict themselves.

It appears that the true meanings of Jesus words are if you have seen him, you have seen the works of the Father. The word "seen" is translated from the Greek word horao (Strongs 3708) which means "to discern clearly."

"BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS I AM"
JOHN 8:58)

One of the more credible arguments made by well meaning Trinitarians is the use of Jesus' words in verse 58 of the 8th chapter of John. In this conversation with the Pharisees, the Lord was rebuking them for not knowing who he really was. He informed them that their father Abraham rejoiced to see his day and he saw it and he was glad. (John 8:57) In doubting him, the Jewish spokesman responded, "you are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Following this in verse 58 Jesus said "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was I AM."

While on the surface one might conclude that Jesus was claiming to be God by declaring "I AM." Consider the words in the previous verses, "If I honor myself my honor is nothing. It is my Father who honors me, of whom you say that he is your God." verse 54.
Jesus was quoting from the book of Exodus when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush. "I AM WHO I AM." (Exodus 3:14) It is our contention that Jesus in his pre-human existence acted as the one carrying out Jehovah's wishes. He was representing Jehovah, as his messenger before mankind. What Jesus told the Pharisees was that he knew God, his Father, personally, and that he was present in Abraham's time acting upon the will of his Father.

DID THOMAS' WORDS "MY LORD AND MY GOD" PROVE THE TRINITY?

Trinitarians use the words of the Apostle Thomas upon seeing Jesus following his resurrection "My Lord and my God." (John (20:28) as proof that Jesus was his own Father. Once again we refer to the Greek word theos and the meaning of this word. While this word has been used in places referring to the Heavenly Father, it can also be applied to those in authority. Jesus in his resurrected condition was the head of the Christian church and was truly Thomas' Lord and ruler.

JESUS NEVER ONCE CLAIMED TO BE GOD

If Jesus Christ was God, his own father, why didn't he come out and say so? Why did he come up with such a confusing doctrine known as the trinity? In all cases Jesus Christ speaks of his Father being his superior. Here are just a few scriptures, "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father." (John 6:57) "My doctrine is not mine but his who sent me." (John 7:16) "For the Father judges no one, but committed all judgment to the SON." (John 5:22) "And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as my Father bestowed one upon me." (Luke 22:29) "All authority has been given to me in Heaven and on earth." (Matthew 28:18) "All things have been delivered to me by my Father" (John 11:27) "In this love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his son to be a propitiation for our sins." (1st John 4:10)

"THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"
John 14:28

Throughout Jesus' earthly ministry he claimed to be subjected to the will of his Father. When speaking to his apostles the night before he was put to death, he said, "You have heard me say to you, I am going away and coming back to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father, for my FATHER IS GREATER THAN I." (John 14:28)

"THE SON HIMSELF WILL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM"
1st CORINTHIANS 15:28

The Apostle Paul in speaking of the time when God's plan for mankind is complete, when death is destroyed and Christ's earthly reign comes to an end, has this to say. "Now when all things are made subject to him, (The Father) then the SON HIMSELF WILL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM who put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (1st Corinthians 15:28) Now we ask, if Jesus is part of some "godhead" why would he ever be "subjected" to another?
"GOD OUR SAVIOR"

Those advocating the trinity have used the words of the Apostle where he calls God "our savior" (1st Timothy 1:1) as another proof for Christ's deity. While Jesus Christ carried out the role of savior, his Father is ultimately our savior because he designed the plan that rescued the human race. All things are by the Father through the son. "We have seen and do testify that the Father sent the son to be the savior of the world." (1st John 4:14)

OTHER SCRIPTURES DISPROVING THE TRINITY

There are numerous scriptures that disprove the trinity doctrine. Here are more words from Jesus on the subject. "Of that day and hour (when God's kingdom is set up fully) knoweth no man, no not angels, neither the Son, but my Father only." (Mark 13:32) "I send the promise of my Father upon you." (Luke 24:49) "I am come in my Father's name." (John 5:43) "Whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:50)

WHAT ABOUT THE THE HOLY SPIRIT?

In addition to proclaiming that Jesus Christ is God, there is a third being of the so-called trinity. The Holy Spirit wrongly translated "Holy Ghost" in the original King James Bible, who is also said to be God. Unfortunately for the Trinitarian there is not one scripture in either the old or New Testament that says that the Holy Spirit is part of the godhead.

When the Bible speaks of the Holy Spirit it is referring to the spirit of truth. This spirit is possessed by those who fully understand the plan of God, and that Jesus Christ died as a ransom for the entire world of mankind. Jesus, when being tempted by Satan in the wilderness quoted (Deuteronomy 6:13) "Man shall not live by bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Clearly there cannot be a better description of the holy sprit than this. This spirit of truth can be best described as "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Another way in which to understand the Holy Spirit is to compare it to the context of school spirit or patriotic spirit. Someone with the Holy Spirit has within them the spirit of God.

THE "COMFORTER" PROMISED BY JESUS

In preparing the apostles for his departure, Jesus promised them that his Father would send a "comforter" that would teach them all things. (John 14:25-26) He goes on to tell them that this comforter would be the Holy Spirit.

It is true that Jesus spoke of this comforter as "he" when explaining to them about this "spirit of truth." (John 16:7-12) He does not however claim that this was another form of God. The "he" is likely an angel, which were used as God's messengers throughout the Bible. This angel carried the message of the "spirit of truth" to the apostles on the day of Pentecost after Jesus ascended into Heaven. Just as when speaking of himself, our Lord taught that this comforter came from the Father.(John 14:25)

JESUS RECIEVED A GREATER EXISTENCE UPON HIS RESSURECTION

"THEREFORE GOD HAS HIGHLY EXALTED HIM AND GIVEN HIM THE NAME WHICH IS ABOVE EVERY NAME."
PHILIPIANS 2:9

We are taught in scripture that upon his obedience to the Heavenly Father, our Lord received a higher spiritual plane than he possessed in his pre-human existence. The Apostle Paul tells us that the "first man Adam became a living being. The last Adam (Jesus) BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT." (1st Corinthians 15:45) Jesus upon his obedience to his Heavenly Father was rewarded with a new nature, "the divine nature" as mentioned by the Apostle Peter in (2nd Peter 1:4). Jesus was the first, the HEAD of his symbolic BODY, which are the saints; they also are to receive the reward of immortality, meaning that they cannot die. Over these the "second death has NO power." (Revelation 20:6)

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS

There is overwhelming scriptural evidence that reveals the trinity as a false doctrine. While we respect sincere students of the Bible who disagree with us, it is offensive to hear those advocating the trinity claiming one must believe in it as a basis for salvation. If this were the case we are confident that the God of the universe would have presented it in a far less confusing way! Some advocates of the trinity claim it to be a great "mystery," one that is impossible to fully comprehend. Now wait a minute, didn't the Apostle Paul instruct followers of Christ to "prove all things?" (1st Thessalonians 5:21)
This discussion of who Jesus was and his relationship to the Heavenly Father, goes far deeper than the issues presented in this article. There are many words used in describing God in the Bible. For a more detailed study of the issue click here to an e-book known as The Doctrine of Christ.

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*Photos of Jesus character in this article are from the movie Jesus of Nazareth.

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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

May 19th, 2010, 4:41 am #2

that someone will offer you 500 scriptures that they believe proves otherwise and I hope they can PROVE each and everyone of those scriptures to be valid. I believe in ONE God and just a set of metaphores of how he creates a soul that has a father (chokmah), a mother (binah), a son (daat) and a daughter (nukvah).  JB
Last edited by daat on May 19th, 2010, 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 13th, 2006, 12:37 am

May 19th, 2010, 10:14 am #3

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/adria ... trine.html

"Do Not Cling To Me, For I Have Not Yet Ascended To My Father, But Go To My Brethren And Say To Them, I Am Ascending To My Father And Your Father, And To My God And Your God."
John 20:17

The Trinity-Satan's False Doctrine
Jesus Christ Is God's Son!

Would it surprise you to know that one of the most prominent doctrines in Christianity today has no basis in scripture? The doctrine of the "Holy Trinity" considered by many to be essential to one's very salvation, is not found in Christianity until at least three hundred years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Even more shocking is the fact that the concept of a triune godhead likely comes from the traditions of paganism!

AN ANCIENT STATUE OF THE HINDU TRINITY

Keep in mind that there are many sincere believers in the trinity doctrine and not all are just mindless followers of a tradition. While there are numerous scriptures that show Jesus to be just who he said he was, the SON of God, there are a handful of New Testament scriptures that might, IF taken out of context, cause one to conclude that Jesus is himself God.

THE MAIN CAUSE OF THE CONFUSION

There seems to be a lack of attention paid to the things that the Bible says about Jesus in his pre-human existence. Scripture tells us that Jesus was the "Logos," or in English, the "Word," at the beginning of creation. It is the role that he possessed prior to his earthly ministry which causes many to falsely conclude that he is not only the Son of God, but indeed is God.

SCRIPTURE SHOWS JESUS WAS CREATED BY GOD

"THESE THINGS SAYS THE AMEN, THE FAITHFUL AND TRUE WITNESS, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD."
REVELATION 3:14

We are taught in the Bible that the Heavenly Father is without beginning and without end. Jesus Christ in his own words claims to be God's first, or "chief" creation. According to the Apostle John, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON." (John 3:16) If Jesus was "begotten" some other being must have "beget" him. According to Webster's Dictionary, "Beget" means to be the "FATHER OR TO SIRE. To bring into being." This being the case, a higher power must have created Jesus.

In examining the account of creation as written in the book of Genesis, it is clear that the Heavenly Father employed a helper in the creation process. "Let US make man in our image, according to our likeness, let them have dominion over the the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." (Genesis 1:26) It is our contention that Jesus Christ in his pre-human form was this very helper.

"THINGS WERE MADE THROUGH HIM"

The gospel of the Apostle John tells us that "All things were made THROUGH him, (Jesus) and without him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3) The majority of translations use the word "through," which is wrongly translated in the original King James Bible as "all things were made by him." If all things were made through him, this indicates that he was carrying out orders that had been delegated by a higher authority. Jesus acted as Jehovah's agency and is the one who dealt directly with mankind in the Old Testament.

JESUS IS THE "ARM" OF JEHOVAH"

There are numerous scriptures that speak of Jehovah's Holy "arm." When one examines the context of these verses it becomes clear that this "arm" is Jesus Christ. In speaking of the coming redeemer, "therefore his own arm brought salvation FOR him." (Isaiah 59:16) "The Lord has made bare his Holy arm in the eyes of all nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see his salvation." (Isaiah 52:10) "Behold, the Lord God shall come with a strong hand, and his arm shall rule over them." (Isaiah 40:10) "And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (John 12:38) and (Isaiah 53:1) Jesus serves as the General of Jehovah. He is the one who carries out the will of his Father.

PROVERBS 8TH CHAPTER SPEAKS OF THE ROLE OF OF THE "LOGOS"

To further comprehend the role of the "Logos," turn your Bible to the book of Proverbs the 8th chapter verses 22-31." Verse 30 says, "I was beside him as a master craftsman; and I was daily his delight." Clearly we see here that Jesus was with the Father, but he was separate from the Heavenly Father.

"THE WORD WAS GOD"
JOHN 1:1

For centuries, a poor translation of John 1:1, as well as a misunderstanding of biblical usage for the word "god," has caused millions to wrongly believe in the trinity. In most Bibles, John 1:1 reads "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God." This scripture is the cornerstone of Trinitarian creed.

HOW SHOULD JOHN 1:1 BE TRANSLATED?

The first argument in refuting this interpretation is an appeal to common sense. How could the Word be with God and be God at the same time? If the point here was to say that the Word was God, why bother saying that he was with him? Would not the passage more likely read (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was in all things God?) The very word structure of this passage provides strong evidence for mistranslation.

In an effort to validate their own bias towards the trinity doctrine, it appears that the translators have ignored an obvious distinction between the Logos and the Heavenly Father in John 1:1. The Greek word that is used for god in the passage is theos. In the two uses of the word "god" there is a difference in its usage. In the first use "the Word was with God" the word is ho theos meaning THE God." In the second usage of this verse it is simply theos. Given this, the proper reading of John 1:1 should be "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word." Verse 2 goes on to say, "He was in the beginning with the (ho theos) God."

According to the Strongs Concordance, the Greek word theos, which is numbered 2316 in the Greek dictionary found towards the back of the publication, means "a deity, especially with word (3588) the supreme Divinity." Now let us examine word 3588. This word is the very "ho" placed before the name of God in the first usage in John 1:1.
Given this obvious distinction between theos and ho theos, by the Apostle John, can there be any doubt that Jesus Christ in his pre-human condition was an all together separate being from the God of the universe?

THE HEBREW WORD "ELOHIM"

Numerous times in the Old Testament the Hebrew word elohim is used for the word God. It is often used when referring to the Heavenly Father, but the meaning of elohim is simply "mighty one" or one in authority. Given this, elohim is applied to angels as in Psalm 8:5 "You have made him (the future Messiah) a little lower than the angels (elohim) and have crowned him with glory and honor."

In other instances in the Old Testament elohim is used when speaking of powerful human beings. For instance in Exodus 7:1 Moses is called elohim "See I have made you as God to Pharaoh." Psalm 82:6-7 refers to the saints as elohim "I said you are gods, and all of you are children of the most high God."

FRAUDULENT BIBLICAL PASSAGES IN 1ST JOHN 5:7-8

Further proof that the doctrine of the trinity is false lies in the book of 1st John. Trinitarians have used the words of 1st John 5:7-8 as a key argument for the trinity. "For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one." There is an enormous problem however in using these verses to bolster the trinity doctrine. The passage is not authentic! These words only appear in five later manuscripts and are not found in any of the earlier New Testament texts. These verses are such obvious forgeries that even staunch Trinitarian scholars have been forced to admit as much. Among them are the publishers of the New King James translation and various study bibles.

Let us now take a look at 1st John 5:7-8 in its true context without the spurious passage. "For there are three who bear witness, the spirit, the water, and the blood, and these things agree as one." Upon seeing how these verses are intended to read, it is clear that in no way do they offer a credible argument for the trinity. Now examine verse nine "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God that he has testified in his SON Jesus Christ." Clearly these passages are talking about two separate beings, the Heavenly Father and his only begotten SON Jesus Christ.

"I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE"
JOHN 10:30

Supporters of the trinity often quote the words of Jesus "I and the Father are one" as proof for Jesus' being God in the flesh. Once again they take the words of Jesus completely out of context. If one examines Jesus' own words later on in the very same gospel of John, he explains this oneness.
On the night of his arrest our Lord prayed in the garden of Gethsemane. He prayed vehemently for the well being of his Apostles. He asks God that "they all may be ONE, as you Father, are in me, and I in you; that they also may be ONE in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And the glory which you gave me I have given them, and that they may be ONE just as we are ONE." (John 17:21-22)
Clearly Jesus was not asking his Father to make his apostles one in the same person. He was requesting that they be one in thought, purpose, and deed. Jesus Christ and Jehovah, his God and our God, are indeed one, but it is a oneness in their mission. This oneness of purpose can be compared to having a President and a Vice President. They are not the same literal persons, but they are one in representing the office of the presidency.

"HE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER"
JOHN 14:9

This passage is often used by trinity advocates as another proof that Jesus was claiming to be God. If we are to take this passage literally, there appears to be serious contradiction in Jesus' words in other scriptures. How can Jesus say "he who has seen me has seen the Father" and in another place say "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is from God; he has seen the Father." (John 6:46) "And the Father himself who sent me, has testified of me. You have neither heard his voice at anytime, nor seen his form." (John 5:37) Or what about the words of John "No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten son, who is in the bosom of the Father has declared him." Then again in (1st John 4:12) "No one has seen God at any time." Thankfully, the scriptures do not contradict themselves.

It appears that the true meanings of Jesus words are if you have seen him, you have seen the works of the Father. The word "seen" is translated from the Greek word horao (Strongs 3708) which means "to discern clearly."

"BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS I AM"
JOHN 8:58)

One of the more credible arguments made by well meaning Trinitarians is the use of Jesus' words in verse 58 of the 8th chapter of John. In this conversation with the Pharisees, the Lord was rebuking them for not knowing who he really was. He informed them that their father Abraham rejoiced to see his day and he saw it and he was glad. (John 8:57) In doubting him, the Jewish spokesman responded, "you are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Following this in verse 58 Jesus said "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was I AM."

While on the surface one might conclude that Jesus was claiming to be God by declaring "I AM." Consider the words in the previous verses, "If I honor myself my honor is nothing. It is my Father who honors me, of whom you say that he is your God." verse 54.
Jesus was quoting from the book of Exodus when God appeared to Moses at the burning bush. "I AM WHO I AM." (Exodus 3:14) It is our contention that Jesus in his pre-human existence acted as the one carrying out Jehovah's wishes. He was representing Jehovah, as his messenger before mankind. What Jesus told the Pharisees was that he knew God, his Father, personally, and that he was present in Abraham's time acting upon the will of his Father.

DID THOMAS' WORDS "MY LORD AND MY GOD" PROVE THE TRINITY?

Trinitarians use the words of the Apostle Thomas upon seeing Jesus following his resurrection "My Lord and my God." (John (20:28) as proof that Jesus was his own Father. Once again we refer to the Greek word theos and the meaning of this word. While this word has been used in places referring to the Heavenly Father, it can also be applied to those in authority. Jesus in his resurrected condition was the head of the Christian church and was truly Thomas' Lord and ruler.

JESUS NEVER ONCE CLAIMED TO BE GOD

If Jesus Christ was God, his own father, why didn't he come out and say so? Why did he come up with such a confusing doctrine known as the trinity? In all cases Jesus Christ speaks of his Father being his superior. Here are just a few scriptures, "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father." (John 6:57) "My doctrine is not mine but his who sent me." (John 7:16) "For the Father judges no one, but committed all judgment to the SON." (John 5:22) "And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as my Father bestowed one upon me." (Luke 22:29) "All authority has been given to me in Heaven and on earth." (Matthew 28:18) "All things have been delivered to me by my Father" (John 11:27) "In this love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his son to be a propitiation for our sins." (1st John 4:10)

"THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"
John 14:28

Throughout Jesus' earthly ministry he claimed to be subjected to the will of his Father. When speaking to his apostles the night before he was put to death, he said, "You have heard me say to you, I am going away and coming back to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father, for my FATHER IS GREATER THAN I." (John 14:28)

"THE SON HIMSELF WILL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM"
1st CORINTHIANS 15:28

The Apostle Paul in speaking of the time when God's plan for mankind is complete, when death is destroyed and Christ's earthly reign comes to an end, has this to say. "Now when all things are made subject to him, (The Father) then the SON HIMSELF WILL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM who put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (1st Corinthians 15:28) Now we ask, if Jesus is part of some "godhead" why would he ever be "subjected" to another?
"GOD OUR SAVIOR"

Those advocating the trinity have used the words of the Apostle where he calls God "our savior" (1st Timothy 1:1) as another proof for Christ's deity. While Jesus Christ carried out the role of savior, his Father is ultimately our savior because he designed the plan that rescued the human race. All things are by the Father through the son. "We have seen and do testify that the Father sent the son to be the savior of the world." (1st John 4:14)

OTHER SCRIPTURES DISPROVING THE TRINITY

There are numerous scriptures that disprove the trinity doctrine. Here are more words from Jesus on the subject. "Of that day and hour (when God's kingdom is set up fully) knoweth no man, no not angels, neither the Son, but my Father only." (Mark 13:32) "I send the promise of my Father upon you." (Luke 24:49) "I am come in my Father's name." (John 5:43) "Whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:50)

WHAT ABOUT THE THE HOLY SPIRIT?

In addition to proclaiming that Jesus Christ is God, there is a third being of the so-called trinity. The Holy Spirit wrongly translated "Holy Ghost" in the original King James Bible, who is also said to be God. Unfortunately for the Trinitarian there is not one scripture in either the old or New Testament that says that the Holy Spirit is part of the godhead.

When the Bible speaks of the Holy Spirit it is referring to the spirit of truth. This spirit is possessed by those who fully understand the plan of God, and that Jesus Christ died as a ransom for the entire world of mankind. Jesus, when being tempted by Satan in the wilderness quoted (Deuteronomy 6:13) "Man shall not live by bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Clearly there cannot be a better description of the holy sprit than this. This spirit of truth can be best described as "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Another way in which to understand the Holy Spirit is to compare it to the context of school spirit or patriotic spirit. Someone with the Holy Spirit has within them the spirit of God.

THE "COMFORTER" PROMISED BY JESUS

In preparing the apostles for his departure, Jesus promised them that his Father would send a "comforter" that would teach them all things. (John 14:25-26) He goes on to tell them that this comforter would be the Holy Spirit.

It is true that Jesus spoke of this comforter as "he" when explaining to them about this "spirit of truth." (John 16:7-12) He does not however claim that this was another form of God. The "he" is likely an angel, which were used as God's messengers throughout the Bible. This angel carried the message of the "spirit of truth" to the apostles on the day of Pentecost after Jesus ascended into Heaven. Just as when speaking of himself, our Lord taught that this comforter came from the Father.(John 14:25)

JESUS RECIEVED A GREATER EXISTENCE UPON HIS RESSURECTION

"THEREFORE GOD HAS HIGHLY EXALTED HIM AND GIVEN HIM THE NAME WHICH IS ABOVE EVERY NAME."
PHILIPIANS 2:9

We are taught in scripture that upon his obedience to the Heavenly Father, our Lord received a higher spiritual plane than he possessed in his pre-human existence. The Apostle Paul tells us that the "first man Adam became a living being. The last Adam (Jesus) BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT." (1st Corinthians 15:45) Jesus upon his obedience to his Heavenly Father was rewarded with a new nature, "the divine nature" as mentioned by the Apostle Peter in (2nd Peter 1:4). Jesus was the first, the HEAD of his symbolic BODY, which are the saints; they also are to receive the reward of immortality, meaning that they cannot die. Over these the "second death has NO power." (Revelation 20:6)

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS

There is overwhelming scriptural evidence that reveals the trinity as a false doctrine. While we respect sincere students of the Bible who disagree with us, it is offensive to hear those advocating the trinity claiming one must believe in it as a basis for salvation. If this were the case we are confident that the God of the universe would have presented it in a far less confusing way! Some advocates of the trinity claim it to be a great "mystery," one that is impossible to fully comprehend. Now wait a minute, didn't the Apostle Paul instruct followers of Christ to "prove all things?" (1st Thessalonians 5:21)
This discussion of who Jesus was and his relationship to the Heavenly Father, goes far deeper than the issues presented in this article. There are many words used in describing God in the Bible. For a more detailed study of the issue click here to an e-book known as The Doctrine of Christ.

RETURN TO THE RESTITUTION BIBLE STUDENTS HOME PAGE
*Photos of Jesus character in this article are from the movie Jesus of Nazareth.

###
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-pagan.htm
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-proof-texts.htm
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-definition-god.htm
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-history.htm
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-holy-spirit.htm
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-oneness-unity.htm
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-ontology-views.htm
http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-subordination.htm

Sorry, but your source is another spin-off cult of the Jehovah's Witness cult and has no clue what they are talking about. They are akin to the Dawn Bible Students Association and its spin-offs and the Laymens Home Missionary Movement, all of which spun off the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society when J.F. Rutherford seized control and began replacing founder Charles Taze Russell's erroneous doctrines with erroneous doctrines of his own. Sorry, but you source has no validity whatsoever where the Word of God is concerned. It's quite telling how you always resort to the teachings of non-biblical cults, as opposed to bona-fide Biblical teaching, Mondo. You are as scripture says, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Timothy 3:7).

Pastor Jack Howell
"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



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Last edited by RevJack2006 on May 19th, 2010, 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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May 19th, 2010, 10:16 am #4

that someone will offer you 500 scriptures that they believe proves otherwise and I hope they can PROVE each and everyone of those scriptures to be valid. I believe in ONE God and just a set of metaphores of how he creates a soul that has a father (chokmah), a mother (binah), a son (daat) and a daughter (nukvah).  JB
I can indeed prove each and every one of the 500+ scriptures, and I don't have to twist and distort them with phony allegorical or esoteric dung like you do, either.

Pastor Jack Howell
"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



MY BLOG


Proper Principles of Bible Study

















Last edited by RevJack2006 on May 19th, 2010, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

May 19th, 2010, 11:38 am #5

that someone will offer you 500 scriptures that they believe proves otherwise and I hope they can PROVE each and everyone of those scriptures to be valid. I believe in ONE God and just a set of metaphores of how he creates a soul that has a father (chokmah), a mother (binah), a son (daat) and a daughter (nukvah).  JB
then WHO IS GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH???

for it is written that GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH

every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

May 19th, 2010, 12:16 pm #6

I can indeed prove each and every one of the 500+ scriptures, and I don't have to twist and distort them with phony allegorical or esoteric dung like you do, either.

Pastor Jack Howell
"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



MY BLOG


Proper Principles of Bible Study
















then you have lost your creditionals to be acknowledged as a Pastor or any other office of religion. Now be my guest and present each of your scriptures one at a time so we can discuss their merits. JB
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

May 19th, 2010, 12:18 pm #7

then WHO IS GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH???

for it is written that GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH
God becomes manifest in the flesh of the called and chosen. JB
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

May 19th, 2010, 12:51 pm #8

then WHO IS GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH???

for it is written that GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: ((God was manifest in the flesh))), justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.



it is also written, "God is in Christ" reconcilling the world to himself:


if God is IN CHRIST, then it is GOD WHO IS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH of CHRIST which is David's flesh


and this is why David will be as God when Messiah comes:

Jesus is the NAME that ONLY HE HIMSELF KNOWS because to "KNOW" something or someone completely you have to be it or them:


everyone feels free to talk about Jesus, but only those who are JOINED TO CHRIST "KNOW" Jesus


that is why Jesus said "depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you":


what didn't they know?


the FATHER



or the SON



Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].


ME: the SON has to reveal the FATHER or no man could see him and LIVE:

Christ however is Lord of the LIVING and the dead so he could become the "GO between" the dead and living: If we saw God without being "IN CHRIST" we would not be able to stay in the body; it is only because GOD COMES IN CHRIST that we are able to be saved even while in the body:



Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



so what is the name of the father and Holy ghost? We know the name of the SON is JESUS right? What are the names of the other two members of the trinity?


Jesus said he came in the NAME OF HIS FATHER.....so that must mean his name and the Fathers name are pretty similar or the same if he came in that name:





Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].


Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.



Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.


Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.


Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;



if God didn't send HIS SPIRIT into our heart, we would NEVER KNOW GOD AS FATHER....




Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.



GOD IS WITH US as in Emmauel, because GOD PUT HIMSELF (seed) into the heart of the woman to bring forth the FIRST FRUITS of all creation, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD:



Hbr 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.



1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.



1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].




1Jo 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.


and since THE FATHER SENT THE SON to be SAVIOR of the WORLD, and there is only ONE SAVIOR and that is YHVH, THE SAVIOR of the World is "the salvation of YHVH" which is JESUS in English:


but as another witness as to who the SAVIOR IS, read....


Tts 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of ((((God our Saviour))));


2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.










Isa 43:3 For I [am] the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt [for] thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.


Isa 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isa 45:15 Verily thou [art] a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.


Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me.




Hsa 13:4 Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.



and when the SEED OF YHVH entered the virgin (GOOD GROUND OF JOSEPH who didn't know her till Christ was born as the "good will" to Man in him), YHVH was present within this virgin ground of being:





Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


Luk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.


Luk 1:43 And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?



WHO IS ELIZABETHS LORD?

It is YHVH of course

and she recognized that the MOTHER of her LORD is MARY.....



and MARY says





Luk 1:46 ¶ And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,



ME: HER SOUL magnifies, MAKES BIGGER the Lord

Luk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.


HER SPIRIT rejoices in GOD HER SAVIOR because her spirit knows that GOD IS BEING BROUGHT FORTH THROUGH HER TO TAKE HER SPIRIT TO HIMSELF




Luk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.


ME: ALL GENERATIONS because this will happen again and again as GOD in and through JESUS CHRIST BRINGS MANY SONS to GLORY....in the same way....



Luk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy [is] his name.


Luk 1:50 And his mercy [is] on them that fear him from generation to generation.


Luk 1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.



ME: the imagination of our hearts is the vain vessel that will be scattered because of its PRIDE that goes before the fall of that vessel; Look at Saul FALLING TO THE EARTH when JESUS WAS REVEALED TO HIM:



Luk 1:52 He hath put down the mighty from [their] seats, and exalted them of low degree.


Luk 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.


Luk 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of [his] mercy;


Luk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.



ME: ISRAEL is recognied as the SOUL who will indeed KNOW HER KING, the King of Israel is none other than YHVH, but how he becomes KING is only known to those in WHOM HE IS REVEALED because he is born through their HEART....



our first vessel of vanity is sent away empty: It is the ego that thinks it knows the truth and continues to LEARN, LEARN, LEARN,

but it never ever ever ever comes to the KNOWLEDGE (Da'ath) of the truth because the TRUTH IS SENT TO THE SOUL, to ISrael and not to the vessel of vanity, the carnal mind


the carnal mind is the "Seed of the serpent" and the serpent is the "CROOKED WILL"


and GOD ALONE is able to straiten the crooked will and he does so THROUGH HIMSELF IN HIS SON


Jesus takes that old man, that old "WILL", the old kings to the cross to take away the ENMITY God put between HIS SEED (himself born, begotten through the woman Israel, the virgin of Israel from the house of David)


and the seed of the serpent (the carnal mind that comes from the crooked serpent) by LIFTING UP ThE SERPENT with himself


thereby making out of TWO (twain)

ONE NEW MAN and this MAN is JESUS, the LAST ADAM

the image and likeness of God the father because they are the SAME SEED


the SEED is the WORD OF GOD

and THE WORD IS GOD







Hsa 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because [there is] no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.




Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.




Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.


Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.


Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.


Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:


Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




Act 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.


Act 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.




Act 13:26 Men [and] brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.




Act 13:26 Men [and] brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.





Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.




2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


2Cr 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,


Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;


Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.



1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


2Ti 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, [even] unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.


2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD do in us???


Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


ME: those who have "tasted the good word of God" understand some things others do not:


Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.



HOW DOES GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH?? WHAT DOES THIS SEED IN US do when it finds the "Good ground" in us????


1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


ME: now for those who HAVE THE WORD WITHIN them, and are begotten of God through that WORD (Jesus Christ)


1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.



1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

ME: this word makes us "one" with the Father, hence "Fathers" because we KNOW HIM who is from the beginning:

The Young Man in us, the ONE WHO COMES FROM THE SEED of God in us, the "MAN-CHILD" in us makes us strong because the WORD ABIDES IN US and where the WORD ABIDES the "wicked one" is overcome:




Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.



ME: THE WORD of God gives us the testimony of JESUS.....and once we "SEE" Jesus, become WITNESSES OF HIM, we know HOW THE SON and FATHER are ONE:


Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.



Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:



Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



ME: those who are witnesses of JESUS (SEE JESUS) have RECEIVED THE WORD OF GOD



that part of us never KNEW the antichrist, so this part never worshipped the beast or his image or his mark upon the forehead or in the hands:

why??


this is a NEW CREATION GOD MADE THROUGH HIS SON, through being BEGOTTEN IN and through that part of us that GOD SAVES BY HIMSELF in us:


this part lives

while the other part of us dies, decreases, is overcome, as in putting Satan under our feet as the enemies are put under our feet because we have become "ONE WITH THE HEAD"

and are no longer part of the tail which is the part that is cast out of heaven with the dragon when God cast him out of our inner heavens with 1/3 of the angels after the "MANCHILD" is brought forth through the WOMAN who is clothed with the SUN and the MOON is under her feet and the 12 stars are around her head:


that woman is the SOUL, the Body of Israel who brings forth the "Manchild"


this has to be BOTH JOSEPH and JUDAH, since God makes ONE STICK in his hands through these tribes via Ephraim and Judah:


Ephraim is the son of JOSEPH but it is through Josephs sons Ephraim and Manasse whom God will use to


PUSH ALL ISRAEL (the woman) together to the ends of the earth:




Deu 33:13 ¶ And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD [be] his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,


Deu 33:14 And for the precious fruits [brought forth] by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,


Deu 33:15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,


Deu 33:16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and [for] the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let [the blessing] come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him [that was] separated from his brethren.


Deu 33:17 His glory [is like] the firstling of his bullock, and his horns [are like] the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they [are] the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they [are] the thousands of Manasseh.



who is the firstling of his bullock?

the MESSIAH


the word re'em for unicorn comes from ra'am -TO RISE, be lifted up:


and here is another witness that it is GOD who works in the strength of this unicorn






Num 23:21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God [is] with him, and the shout of a king [is] among them.


Num 23:22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.






Num 24:8 God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce [them] through with his arrows.


Num 24:9 He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed [is] he that blesseth thee, and cursed [is] he that curseth thee.



so for those who want to believe that GOD the FATHER is not GOD the SON, who will they turn to in their time of NEED, their time of trouble?

GOD that is not the SON??





Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].


1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


3Jo 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.




Jhn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.





1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;



Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.







Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:


Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;


Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

May 19th, 2010, 1:05 pm #9

then you have lost your creditionals to be acknowledged as a Pastor or any other office of religion. Now be my guest and present each of your scriptures one at a time so we can discuss their merits. JB
You continue to run, because you know you will have to endure another defeat. That's what it is with you and Yvonne. Both habitually run.

"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose RIGHTEOUSNESS"." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

May 19th, 2010, 1:09 pm #10

then WHO IS GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH???

for it is written that GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH
In your other post you said Jesus is NOT a PERSON. So no one was crucified is that it?

"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose RIGHTEOUSNESS"." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
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