"The flood is NOT a metaphor it was an actual event." -- Nucc

"The flood is NOT a metaphor it was an actual event." -- Nucc

truthbetold
truthbetold

February 25th, 2010, 3:08 pm #1

Let's see if you can see that assertion through to its logical conclusion.


Ye Woodsten Arke

"Ye woodsten arke was 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits in size" (Gen. 6:15) and a cubit is approximately 18 inches which is 1.5 feet.

Ye woodsten arke was thus 450 feet long, 75 wide, and 45 tall. The total cubic volume would have been 1,518,750 cubic feet.

When we do a bit of of conversion in metres, it's 137.16 by 22.86 by 13.716 metres. For ease of calculation, let's call it 140 x 23 x 14. This give you 45.080e+3 cubic metres.

One cubic metre of pure water equals one metric tonne. Salt water is a bit more dense. Let's be nice, add another thousand tonnes or so. Ye woodsten arke then, displaces 46,000 tonnes, I am being generous here.

So far for the metres. Back to feet.

Those who know something about ship-building will spot a certain 'minor' problem with the above figures and no creationist has ever seen it, apparently. In part, perhaps, if it's corrected, things get worse, for ye woodsten arke that is.


Too Big

HMS Victory, preserved at Portsmouth, was 227 ft long, 186 ft long on the gundeck, with a displacement of 3,556 tonnes. - http://www.hms-victory.com/


HMS Victoria, the last full-rigged 1st rate ship of the ERN line to serve as flag of the Channel Fleet was 340 ft long, 250 ft long on the gundeck, with a displacement of about 10,470 tonnes. - http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_victoria.htm

She had a steel frame because the ERN had found that building wooden ships much bigger than 225 ft long was not a good idea. They tended to straddle or hog on being launched; that is, they tended to bend. Their bows and sterns would stick up out of the water at an angle (that's straddling) or bend the other way; the bows and sterns were supported by waves but the midships sections would be out of the water or at least not as well supported (that's hogging). Either way, their keels tended to crack under the strain. Even with steel frames, wooden ships bigger than 250 ft long tend to hog or straddle. The longest wooden ships build were about 300 feet, and those required reinforcment with iron straps and leaked so badly they had to be pumped constantly.

The Ark thus, is said to be about the size of about 1 and a half times that of HMS Victoria.

To give you an idea, here's two pics of HMS Victoria, 340 feet long, including people, for perspective.







Too Small

Entirely based upon the measurements as recorded in ye Bible, we can see where this is going.

So, when we get to the people, the amount of animals (and necessary room to move to avoid atrophy which would cause the animals to die before the journey is over), the amount of specific nourishment needed for each species, and how to keep it fresh (the inevitable excrement, and only 8 people to clean up), the amount of fresh water needed, and how to keep that fresh and so on and so forth, all on board of ye woodsten arke for the duration of a year (and we didn't even mention the heat the animals would produced and only one small window as ventilation), it poses problems so huge, so impossible to solve, in a logical and realistic manner that is, that even ye Bible is hard pressed to save the day.


Ignorance

Those who concocted ye Bible, had no idea about the grander scheme of things.

Latent Heat of Vaporisation. (See: the laws of thermodynamics)

1g of steam condenses to 1g of liquid water plus 2261 joules! A cubic meter of water is a million grams and the surface of the Earth is 5.09 x 10^8 km2 or 5.09 x1014 m2. Thus, if we drop a measely meter of water a day for 40 days, the amount of energy released is 2261 joules/g * 1,000,000 g/m3 * 5.09*10^14 m3 per day or 1.15 * 10^24 joules a day or 249,300,000 megatonnes/day!

The pentagon would envy such an arsenal and wouldn't stop drooling over it.

Put another way, for every m. of water level increase, we have to release 2.261 billion joules/m2. At a rate of 1 m/day, this comes to 2.261 billion joules/day/m2 or a radiance of 26 kilowatts/m2, roughly 20 times the brightness of the sun! Result: the atmosphere rapidly turns into incandescent plasma incinerating poor Noah and ye woodsten arke. Nothing survives, the oceans boil and the land is baked into pottery. Yet, it is said, ye world wide floode, ye arke and ye rest of ye circus were real life events.


There's a good reason the creation account is rather silent on lots of stuff including germs; bacteria, viruses, parasites (and their hosts), (the delicate nature of) aquatic life etc. without which life wouldn't even exist : those who concocted ye Bible, especially Genesis, didn't know about that either, and what you do not know you cannot mention.

I mean, "everything that was not on ye woodsten arke perished" (Gen. 7:4 - 7:21-23). This means God had to re-create every life form not on ye arke. Yet, ye Bible fails to explain how ye perished life not on ye arke came to pass, again, including mankind as we know it today, out of 8 people from ye same descent.

And, according to doctrine, evolution doesn't occur. This means God created all life as is. Who of the Noah family then was infected with the Ebola virus (which renders its carrier deceased within days)?


Scientific Creationism: a religious dogma combining massive ignorance with incredible arrogance.

Creationist: 1) One who follows creationism. 2) Oblivious to reasoning and logic. 3) Incapable of doing math. 4) A true believer; gullible to the extreme. 5) Convinced of its righteousness. 6) Devoid of introspection.
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Striver
Striver

February 25th, 2010, 4:21 pm #2

Copying from my source, "Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions:

As Cory remarks in his "Ancient Fragments."The history of the Flood, as given by Berosus, so remarkably corresponds with the Biblical account of the Noachian Deluge, that no one can doubt that both proceded from one source. They are, evidently transcriptions, except the names, from some ancient document.

The legend became known to the Jews from Chaldean sources It was not known in the country (Egypt) out of which it evidently came. Egyptian history, it is said, had gone on uninterrupted for a thousand years B.C. AND IT IS KNOWN AS AN ABSOLUTE FACT, that the land of Egypt was never visited by other that it annual beneficent overflow of the Nile river.

The Egyptian Bible, which is by far the oldest of all holy books, knew nothing of the Deluge. The Pharaoh Koufou-Cheops was building his pyramid, according to the Egyptian chronicle, when the whole world was supposedly under the waters of a global deluge. A number of other nations of antiquity have no record of a flood which they would have had there been an actual flood.
*********************************************************************

There was no physical Ark. We, each of us, is an Ark. I'm not about to get into it, but the sevens have to do with the seven major stages of spiritual evolution, each consisting of six minor stages.

I don't know them all, but if all the stages of mind evolution from instinct to God mind were totaled, that total would be 144,000, the number of the saved in Revelations.

The two's coming aboard the Ark symbolise the endless Hindu "pairs of opposites" which have to be reconciled via the middle principle their interaction creates.

The number 8, the number of people? "Eight" is the number for Christ mind.

The dove escaping its confinement in the Ark is the same symbol as the Christ escaping his three day imprisonment in his tomd, or Jonah escaping the whale after three days. In each case the soul, the mind, is realeased into the unending freedom of unending Cosnic Mind. Identification with Earth is extended to identification with Cosmos...the Ascension.
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Joined: October 1st, 2006, 10:04 am

February 25th, 2010, 5:12 pm #3

Let's see if you can see that assertion through to its logical conclusion.


Ye Woodsten Arke

"Ye woodsten arke was 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits in size" (Gen. 6:15) and a cubit is approximately 18 inches which is 1.5 feet.

Ye woodsten arke was thus 450 feet long, 75 wide, and 45 tall. The total cubic volume would have been 1,518,750 cubic feet.

When we do a bit of of conversion in metres, it's 137.16 by 22.86 by 13.716 metres. For ease of calculation, let's call it 140 x 23 x 14. This give you 45.080e+3 cubic metres.

One cubic metre of pure water equals one metric tonne. Salt water is a bit more dense. Let's be nice, add another thousand tonnes or so. Ye woodsten arke then, displaces 46,000 tonnes, I am being generous here.

So far for the metres. Back to feet.

Those who know something about ship-building will spot a certain 'minor' problem with the above figures and no creationist has ever seen it, apparently. In part, perhaps, if it's corrected, things get worse, for ye woodsten arke that is.


Too Big

HMS Victory, preserved at Portsmouth, was 227 ft long, 186 ft long on the gundeck, with a displacement of 3,556 tonnes. - http://www.hms-victory.com/


HMS Victoria, the last full-rigged 1st rate ship of the ERN line to serve as flag of the Channel Fleet was 340 ft long, 250 ft long on the gundeck, with a displacement of about 10,470 tonnes. - http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_victoria.htm

She had a steel frame because the ERN had found that building wooden ships much bigger than 225 ft long was not a good idea. They tended to straddle or hog on being launched; that is, they tended to bend. Their bows and sterns would stick up out of the water at an angle (that's straddling) or bend the other way; the bows and sterns were supported by waves but the midships sections would be out of the water or at least not as well supported (that's hogging). Either way, their keels tended to crack under the strain. Even with steel frames, wooden ships bigger than 250 ft long tend to hog or straddle. The longest wooden ships build were about 300 feet, and those required reinforcment with iron straps and leaked so badly they had to be pumped constantly.

The Ark thus, is said to be about the size of about 1 and a half times that of HMS Victoria.

To give you an idea, here's two pics of HMS Victoria, 340 feet long, including people, for perspective.







Too Small

Entirely based upon the measurements as recorded in ye Bible, we can see where this is going.

So, when we get to the people, the amount of animals (and necessary room to move to avoid atrophy which would cause the animals to die before the journey is over), the amount of specific nourishment needed for each species, and how to keep it fresh (the inevitable excrement, and only 8 people to clean up), the amount of fresh water needed, and how to keep that fresh and so on and so forth, all on board of ye woodsten arke for the duration of a year (and we didn't even mention the heat the animals would produced and only one small window as ventilation), it poses problems so huge, so impossible to solve, in a logical and realistic manner that is, that even ye Bible is hard pressed to save the day.


Ignorance

Those who concocted ye Bible, had no idea about the grander scheme of things.

Latent Heat of Vaporisation. (See: the laws of thermodynamics)

1g of steam condenses to 1g of liquid water plus 2261 joules! A cubic meter of water is a million grams and the surface of the Earth is 5.09 x 10^8 km2 or 5.09 x1014 m2. Thus, if we drop a measely meter of water a day for 40 days, the amount of energy released is 2261 joules/g * 1,000,000 g/m3 * 5.09*10^14 m3 per day or 1.15 * 10^24 joules a day or 249,300,000 megatonnes/day!

The pentagon would envy such an arsenal and wouldn't stop drooling over it.

Put another way, for every m. of water level increase, we have to release 2.261 billion joules/m2. At a rate of 1 m/day, this comes to 2.261 billion joules/day/m2 or a radiance of 26 kilowatts/m2, roughly 20 times the brightness of the sun! Result: the atmosphere rapidly turns into incandescent plasma incinerating poor Noah and ye woodsten arke. Nothing survives, the oceans boil and the land is baked into pottery. Yet, it is said, ye world wide floode, ye arke and ye rest of ye circus were real life events.


There's a good reason the creation account is rather silent on lots of stuff including germs; bacteria, viruses, parasites (and their hosts), (the delicate nature of) aquatic life etc. without which life wouldn't even exist : those who concocted ye Bible, especially Genesis, didn't know about that either, and what you do not know you cannot mention.

I mean, "everything that was not on ye woodsten arke perished" (Gen. 7:4 - 7:21-23). This means God had to re-create every life form not on ye arke. Yet, ye Bible fails to explain how ye perished life not on ye arke came to pass, again, including mankind as we know it today, out of 8 people from ye same descent.

And, according to doctrine, evolution doesn't occur. This means God created all life as is. Who of the Noah family then was infected with the Ebola virus (which renders its carrier deceased within days)?


Scientific Creationism: a religious dogma combining massive ignorance with incredible arrogance.

Creationist: 1) One who follows creationism. 2) Oblivious to reasoning and logic. 3) Incapable of doing math. 4) A true believer; gullible to the extreme. 5) Convinced of its righteousness. 6) Devoid of introspection.
The marine navigators from prehistory (is that the word?) have been much maligned as far as I can make out although a lot more is now being brought to light. Some of these marine peeps could have been at sea during a flood, either by luck or a pre-knowledge and decided to Ride Out The Waves. Then when / if a Restart in certain areas had to start from scratch, then we have some ready made folks with a certain already attained knowledge.


I am not sure what the Bible Noahs Ark is actually about but we all know it was just another flood account / myth () from way before.


Love
Jackie


Know Thyself
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truth betold
truth betold

February 25th, 2010, 5:27 pm #4

Copying from my source, "Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions:

As Cory remarks in his "Ancient Fragments."The history of the Flood, as given by Berosus, so remarkably corresponds with the Biblical account of the Noachian Deluge, that no one can doubt that both proceded from one source. They are, evidently transcriptions, except the names, from some ancient document.

The legend became known to the Jews from Chaldean sources It was not known in the country (Egypt) out of which it evidently came. Egyptian history, it is said, had gone on uninterrupted for a thousand years B.C. AND IT IS KNOWN AS AN ABSOLUTE FACT, that the land of Egypt was never visited by other that it annual beneficent overflow of the Nile river.

The Egyptian Bible, which is by far the oldest of all holy books, knew nothing of the Deluge. The Pharaoh Koufou-Cheops was building his pyramid, according to the Egyptian chronicle, when the whole world was supposedly under the waters of a global deluge. A number of other nations of antiquity have no record of a flood which they would have had there been an actual flood.
*********************************************************************

There was no physical Ark. We, each of us, is an Ark. I'm not about to get into it, but the sevens have to do with the seven major stages of spiritual evolution, each consisting of six minor stages.

I don't know them all, but if all the stages of mind evolution from instinct to God mind were totaled, that total would be 144,000, the number of the saved in Revelations.

The two's coming aboard the Ark symbolise the endless Hindu "pairs of opposites" which have to be reconciled via the middle principle their interaction creates.

The number 8, the number of people? "Eight" is the number for Christ mind.

The dove escaping its confinement in the Ark is the same symbol as the Christ escaping his three day imprisonment in his tomd, or Jonah escaping the whale after three days. In each case the soul, the mind, is realeased into the unending freedom of unending Cosnic Mind. Identification with Earth is extended to identification with Cosmos...the Ascension.
... such things do not go by unnoticed. If they occured ... independent, contemporary chronicles would mention them as well. They don't - which, of course, sticks out as a sore thumb.

The problem for ardent religionists does therefore not lie with what the bible says happened, their problem lies with the opposite; that independent, contemporary chronicles that have survived don't affirm biblical accounts dealing with 'god willed it, wove his magic hand, and it was so'.


The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. -- the bible
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truthbetold
truthbetold

February 25th, 2010, 5:31 pm #5

The marine navigators from prehistory (is that the word?) have been much maligned as far as I can make out although a lot more is now being brought to light. Some of these marine peeps could have been at sea during a flood, either by luck or a pre-knowledge and decided to Ride Out The Waves. Then when / if a Restart in certain areas had to start from scratch, then we have some ready made folks with a certain already attained knowledge.


I am not sure what the Bible Noahs Ark is actually about but we all know it was just another flood account / myth () from way before.


Love
Jackie


Know Thyself
... but they are ignorant (about matters as pointed out in my former post).

What's your excuse?


The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. -- the bible
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

February 25th, 2010, 5:42 pm #6

The marine navigators from prehistory (is that the word?) have been much maligned as far as I can make out although a lot more is now being brought to light. Some of these marine peeps could have been at sea during a flood, either by luck or a pre-knowledge and decided to Ride Out The Waves. Then when / if a Restart in certain areas had to start from scratch, then we have some ready made folks with a certain already attained knowledge.


I am not sure what the Bible Noahs Ark is actually about but we all know it was just another flood account / myth () from way before.


Love
Jackie


Know Thyself
First, there isn't enough water. Second, think salt water.

Some fish and other sea dwelling animals would die in a global flood.

And this is but one item of refutation of the myth.


http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH541.html

Claim CH541:
Present-day fish and other aquatic organisms could have survived the Flood. Many freshwater fish can survive in salt water, and many saltwater fish can tolerate fresh water. The floodwaters may have been layered by salinity, allowing others to find their preferred habitat.
Source:
Woodmorappe, John, 1996. Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study. Santee, CA: Institute for Creation Research, pp. 140-152.
Response:

1. Layering of the floodwaters contradicts the Flood model, which proposes that the Flood was turbulent enough to stir up sediments on an incredible scale. The model proposes that the floodwaters became the present oceans, so all the water flowing into the oceans would have ensured that they were well mixed. The freshwater fish would have had no place to find fresh water.

2. The fact that many fish can tolerate wide ranges in salinity does not mean that all can. Furthermore, the problem applies to more than fish. Freshwater invertebrates are commonly used as indicators of the health of streams. Even a tiny amount of pollution can cause many species to disappear from the stream.

3. Aquatic organisms would have more than salinity to worry about, such as the following:
* Heat. All mechanisms proposed to cause the Flood would have released enough heat to boil the oceans. The deposition of limestone would release enough heat to boil them again. Meteors and volcanoes that occurred during the Flood, as implied by their presence in layers attributed to the Flood by flood geologists, would probably have boiled them again (Isaak 1998). Woodmorappe (1996, 140) dismissed the problem of volcanoes but ignored all the other sources of heat.
* Acid. The volcanoes that erupted during the Flood would also have produced sulfuric acid, enough to lower the pH of the ocean to 2.2, which would be fatal to almost all marine life (Morton 1998b).
* Substrate. Many freshwater and marine invertebrates rely on a substrate. They anchor themselves on the substrate and rely on currents to carry their food to them. During the Flood, substrates would have been uninhabitable at least part of the time, especially on land. Woodmorappe (1996, 141) suggested floating pumice as a substrate, but it would float with the currents, so currents would not bring nutrients to animals on them.
* Pressure. The Flood would have caused great fluctuation in sea pressures. Many deep-sea creatures invariably die from the decompression when brought to the surface. Other surface animals would die from too much pressure if forced deep underwater.

4. Woodmorappe predicted a sudden extinction of fish caused by the Flood. "[P]resent-day marine life is but an impoverished remnant of that which had originally been created and had existed before the Flood" (1996, 142). However, the actual pattern of extinction we see shows convincing disproof of the Flood. Living genera become decreasingly represented in fossils as one goes deeper in the geological column, until there are no recent genera in the Triassic, and only about 12 percent of recent genera have any fossil record. Extinct genera continue back to the Cambrian (Morton 1998a). This pattern exactly matches what one would expect from evolution. It contradicts a global flood, which should include modern fish more-or-less uniformly throughout the flood-deposited sediments.

References:

1. Isaak, Mark, 1998. Problems with a global flood, 2nd ed.http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
2. Morton, Glenn R., 1998a. Fish cause problems for the global flood.http://home.entouch.net/dmd/fish.htm
3. Morton, Glenn R., 1998b. The global flood produces acidic flood waters.http://home.entouch.net/dmd/acid.htm



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Joined: October 1st, 2006, 10:04 am

February 25th, 2010, 6:06 pm #7

... but they are ignorant (about matters as pointed out in my former post).

What's your excuse?


The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. -- the bible
In my manyy readings and listenings I have come across such ideas and have no problems with them as possibilities.

So OK!

Love
Jackie




Know Thyself
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Joined: October 1st, 2006, 10:04 am

February 25th, 2010, 6:07 pm #8

First, there isn't enough water. Second, think salt water.

Some fish and other sea dwelling animals would die in a global flood.

And this is but one item of refutation of the myth.


http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH541.html

Claim CH541:
Present-day fish and other aquatic organisms could have survived the Flood. Many freshwater fish can survive in salt water, and many saltwater fish can tolerate fresh water. The floodwaters may have been layered by salinity, allowing others to find their preferred habitat.
Source:
Woodmorappe, John, 1996. Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study. Santee, CA: Institute for Creation Research, pp. 140-152.
Response:

1. Layering of the floodwaters contradicts the Flood model, which proposes that the Flood was turbulent enough to stir up sediments on an incredible scale. The model proposes that the floodwaters became the present oceans, so all the water flowing into the oceans would have ensured that they were well mixed. The freshwater fish would have had no place to find fresh water.

2. The fact that many fish can tolerate wide ranges in salinity does not mean that all can. Furthermore, the problem applies to more than fish. Freshwater invertebrates are commonly used as indicators of the health of streams. Even a tiny amount of pollution can cause many species to disappear from the stream.

3. Aquatic organisms would have more than salinity to worry about, such as the following:
* Heat. All mechanisms proposed to cause the Flood would have released enough heat to boil the oceans. The deposition of limestone would release enough heat to boil them again. Meteors and volcanoes that occurred during the Flood, as implied by their presence in layers attributed to the Flood by flood geologists, would probably have boiled them again (Isaak 1998). Woodmorappe (1996, 140) dismissed the problem of volcanoes but ignored all the other sources of heat.
* Acid. The volcanoes that erupted during the Flood would also have produced sulfuric acid, enough to lower the pH of the ocean to 2.2, which would be fatal to almost all marine life (Morton 1998b).
* Substrate. Many freshwater and marine invertebrates rely on a substrate. They anchor themselves on the substrate and rely on currents to carry their food to them. During the Flood, substrates would have been uninhabitable at least part of the time, especially on land. Woodmorappe (1996, 141) suggested floating pumice as a substrate, but it would float with the currents, so currents would not bring nutrients to animals on them.
* Pressure. The Flood would have caused great fluctuation in sea pressures. Many deep-sea creatures invariably die from the decompression when brought to the surface. Other surface animals would die from too much pressure if forced deep underwater.

4. Woodmorappe predicted a sudden extinction of fish caused by the Flood. "[P]resent-day marine life is but an impoverished remnant of that which had originally been created and had existed before the Flood" (1996, 142). However, the actual pattern of extinction we see shows convincing disproof of the Flood. Living genera become decreasingly represented in fossils as one goes deeper in the geological column, until there are no recent genera in the Triassic, and only about 12 percent of recent genera have any fossil record. Extinct genera continue back to the Cambrian (Morton 1998a). This pattern exactly matches what one would expect from evolution. It contradicts a global flood, which should include modern fish more-or-less uniformly throughout the flood-deposited sediments.

References:

1. Isaak, Mark, 1998. Problems with a global flood, 2nd ed.http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
2. Morton, Glenn R., 1998a. Fish cause problems for the global flood.http://home.entouch.net/dmd/fish.htm
3. Morton, Glenn R., 1998b. The global flood produces acidic flood waters.http://home.entouch.net/dmd/acid.htm


Tut tut...



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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

February 25th, 2010, 6:08 pm #9

Walk like an Egyptian.

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Anonymous
Anonymous

February 25th, 2010, 6:22 pm #10

First, there isn't enough water. Second, think salt water.

Some fish and other sea dwelling animals would die in a global flood.

And this is but one item of refutation of the myth.


http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH541.html

Claim CH541:
Present-day fish and other aquatic organisms could have survived the Flood. Many freshwater fish can survive in salt water, and many saltwater fish can tolerate fresh water. The floodwaters may have been layered by salinity, allowing others to find their preferred habitat.
Source:
Woodmorappe, John, 1996. Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study. Santee, CA: Institute for Creation Research, pp. 140-152.
Response:

1. Layering of the floodwaters contradicts the Flood model, which proposes that the Flood was turbulent enough to stir up sediments on an incredible scale. The model proposes that the floodwaters became the present oceans, so all the water flowing into the oceans would have ensured that they were well mixed. The freshwater fish would have had no place to find fresh water.

2. The fact that many fish can tolerate wide ranges in salinity does not mean that all can. Furthermore, the problem applies to more than fish. Freshwater invertebrates are commonly used as indicators of the health of streams. Even a tiny amount of pollution can cause many species to disappear from the stream.

3. Aquatic organisms would have more than salinity to worry about, such as the following:
* Heat. All mechanisms proposed to cause the Flood would have released enough heat to boil the oceans. The deposition of limestone would release enough heat to boil them again. Meteors and volcanoes that occurred during the Flood, as implied by their presence in layers attributed to the Flood by flood geologists, would probably have boiled them again (Isaak 1998). Woodmorappe (1996, 140) dismissed the problem of volcanoes but ignored all the other sources of heat.
* Acid. The volcanoes that erupted during the Flood would also have produced sulfuric acid, enough to lower the pH of the ocean to 2.2, which would be fatal to almost all marine life (Morton 1998b).
* Substrate. Many freshwater and marine invertebrates rely on a substrate. They anchor themselves on the substrate and rely on currents to carry their food to them. During the Flood, substrates would have been uninhabitable at least part of the time, especially on land. Woodmorappe (1996, 141) suggested floating pumice as a substrate, but it would float with the currents, so currents would not bring nutrients to animals on them.
* Pressure. The Flood would have caused great fluctuation in sea pressures. Many deep-sea creatures invariably die from the decompression when brought to the surface. Other surface animals would die from too much pressure if forced deep underwater.

4. Woodmorappe predicted a sudden extinction of fish caused by the Flood. "[P]resent-day marine life is but an impoverished remnant of that which had originally been created and had existed before the Flood" (1996, 142). However, the actual pattern of extinction we see shows convincing disproof of the Flood. Living genera become decreasingly represented in fossils as one goes deeper in the geological column, until there are no recent genera in the Triassic, and only about 12 percent of recent genera have any fossil record. Extinct genera continue back to the Cambrian (Morton 1998a). This pattern exactly matches what one would expect from evolution. It contradicts a global flood, which should include modern fish more-or-less uniformly throughout the flood-deposited sediments.

References:

1. Isaak, Mark, 1998. Problems with a global flood, 2nd ed.http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
2. Morton, Glenn R., 1998a. Fish cause problems for the global flood.http://home.entouch.net/dmd/fish.htm
3. Morton, Glenn R., 1998b. The global flood produces acidic flood waters.http://home.entouch.net/dmd/acid.htm


Problem 1: Too Big

Problem 2: Too Small

Problem 3: The Animals

Problem 4: The Space

Problem 5: Time Factor

Problem 6: The Flood

Problem 7: Plant Life

Problem 8: Aquatic Life

Problem 9: Diseases/Parasites

Problem 10: Thermodynamics


Problem 6: The Flood

The flood covered the 'high hills and mountains in excess of fifteen cubits' (about 22 feet).

Some creationists say that there was massive amounts of mountain building post-flood, which is why Mt. Everest, for example, is as tall as it is. Utter poppycock, of course, but for the purposes of argument, let's take them at their word. How tall were the 'high hills and mountains' though? 100 feet? 1000 feet? 2000 feet?

Well, they'd better have been less than 250 feet, because if you put that much water above coral reefs, the reefs die. Every coral reef in the world should be dead, unless Noah carried a few corals with him on the ark, which gives him some extra problems, which is not supported by the Bible anyway.

It's easy to work out how much water would be required for a flood that size. Divide by 24 by 40, and you'll see how much fell per hour in the 40 days and 40 nights, and that's one hell of a lot of water, even if you restrict it to 250 feet extra. No way a wooden boat is gonna survive that - and we haven't even gone into varves, sandstones, salt domes and such.


Problem 7: Plant Life

Not only would Noah have had to carry food for all the animals, and, if predators such as tigers were then carnivores, this would include extra animals to furnish food for said predators, while if they were vegetarians, this would require extra fodder and an explanation as to when and why they evolved, erm ... changed ... but Noah's gonna have to carry all the various plants nonetheless. All of them.

Land plants don't care for major floods, and would all die. Fresh-water plants don't like too much salt, and would all die. Marine plants don't like too little salt and would all die. Estuary plants, who don't care about the salt content, do care about water pressure and would all die long before the corals mentioned earlier would. After the flood would come the dust storm, and as the wind dries up the mud and blows away the top soil because there's no ground cover left to preserve it, it's all dead in the flood. (Gen. 7:4 - 7:21-23)


Problem 8: Aquatic Life

Gen. 7 and 8 simply do not mention aquatic life, animals or plants ... much. Perhaps fish don't have the breath of life, as they don't breath 'land air', but whales and seals and such do. Did Noah carry whales and seals on the ark too, and if so, were they clean or unclean?

Whales are descended from hooved, cud-chewing animals. They even still have multiple-chambered stomachs, and so should be clean; that's seven of them then. Seals are descended from weasels, so they might be unclean.

The vast majority of marine animals don't like it if there's too little salt, or too much water pressure, or both; a flood that could reach above mountains would kill them all. Some marine life loves pressure, and die if there's too little, which creates another problem. The vast majority of fresh-water animals don't like it if there's too much salt, and are far less pressure-resistant than marine life - how deep can you go in a lake, anyway? So, the flood would kill them too. As a matter of fact, the Bible expressly states that all creatures not on board the ark died in the flood. (Gen. 7:4 - 7:21-23)

So, Noah now has to have large aquaria on his wooden barge. I'm kinda curious as to how Noah kept the pressure on the tanks containing the deep-ocean life so that they wouldn't die from decompression and how he kept the seven whales happy.

Let's see, a tank big enough to hold seven whales so that they could swim around and use their baleen plates to sift out the plankton and another tank to grow more plankton as seven whales are gonna eat a lot of plankton. Unless, of course, the whales can be convinced to eat hay. I can see it now. No teeth, but eating hay, but erm ... what are the animals the hay was meant for going to eat then?

Talking about teeth. Of course, the toothed whales, sperm whales and the various dolphins, would have to be kept away from the fish tanks, and if the dolphins include a killer whale or two, away from the other whales and the seals it is, and there had better not be any leopard seals in the seals population, for similar reasons. How big was the ark again?


The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. -- the bible
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