Striver.... I await your answer

Striver.... I await your answer

Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

April 3rd, 2010, 6:48 pm #1

You quoted...

S> What the scientist calls energy, the spiritual man calls God,

http://www.network54.com/Forum/272761/m ... nt+Striver

Surely you must've learned something in University about God as He is and not just subjective philosophies about Him.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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Iceman
Iceman

April 3rd, 2010, 10:23 pm #2

Is God is a superstition and only a part of culture. That religion is a tradition and not a fact.Also that threr is nothing religion can do that intelliect cannot.

Sorry your short changed.
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 3rd, 2010, 11:02 pm #3

You quoted...

S> What the scientist calls energy, the spiritual man calls God,

http://www.network54.com/Forum/272761/m ... nt+Striver

Surely you must've learned something in University about God as He is and not just subjective philosophies about Him.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal
If we identify the main theme of, and shared by, most, if not all, organized and institutionalized religions, then we will find it rather mundane policy; humbuggery.
- religion

Any BS tends to be infected, more or less, by this sneaky creature: the humbug

Religion, may have, started out quite innocently meant to convey -and direct by means of all sorts of symbolism towards- 'truth', soon it became misconception. Eventually, wittingly or unwittingly, it turned misdirection, and finally evolved into organized and institutionalized doctrine: a power tool.

See "Cargo Cults"; a micro of the macro, to get an idea of how the religion principle 'works'; how it starts out, and what it, over time, turns in to.

We can also take the short route and identify the main theme of most, if not all, organized and institutionalized religions; "to obtain".

- us

Do humans exist due to (the) god(notion) or does (the) god(notion) exist due to humans?

To a child its parents are all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present perfect beings who will love the child no matter what.

Our deepest, darkest fear is that we cannot be loved; that we are unloveable, because being loved is the most important thing to us since our instinct tells us our parents should love us unconditionally. Then, when our parents punish us; condition us, to turn us into 'civilised' human beings, the unconditional love cognition is damaged and our greatest pain and fear is born.

We therefore create substitutes and alternative ways to obtain unconditional love. Worship is one of those ways.

The dissonant reasoning behind it is, if we worship, i.e. 'love', something, a substitute, unconditionally enough, it'll unconditionally 'love' us back.
That's how come a "God" -to be loved but also to be feared because of punishment and therefore to be worshipped to avoid 'pain'- came to pass; created in our own image, of course, hence its many human traits.

"God"; a substitute, a (contradictory) fiction, taking care of us and everything, displays a defence mechanism known as 'the repression response'; a coping strategie, at best - a power tool, for worse.


- god

Gods-R-Us

God is supposed to be perfect. If God is perfect, then God desires nothing - such is the nature of perfect. A perfect creator-God is therefore self-refuting and that of which its nature is self-contradictory cannot, and therefore does not, exist.

An imperfect creator-God might be compelled to create what it does not have or feels is missing. Imperfect however, begets imperfection - which explains why imperfections exist - since ultimately it is God who created all that is.

A creator-God therefore, must be, by deduction, imperfect.

Those imperfect creator(god)s r-us.




If the bible is literally true
then what better truth in support
of negating much of what it claims
and if believers would actually know
what they claim, they would be known
as knowers, not as believers......



People are intrinsically intelligent

When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such


Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!



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Iceman
Iceman

April 4th, 2010, 12:11 am #4

I liked that. A true post!
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 4th, 2010, 1:18 am #5

You're welcome ... and free to use it at your heart's content.




If, as religion and millions of religionists claim,
an all-powerful entity who answers prayers exists,
then how come religionists didn't manage to pray
all wrongs gone already? God knows they had
ample time - it therefore seems to imply religionists
are incapable of thinking up deep stuff like that.



People are intrinsically intelligent

When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such


Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!



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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

April 4th, 2010, 2:43 am #6

I liked that. A true post!
You give people a "pretend" picture of something so that they can comprehend the underlying mechanism. In short order, the PRETEND picture becomes their fact.

Do you do anyone a service by saying, "let's pretend that (something) is happening"? Or would it be better to leave everyone alone, in total ignorance?

-Vince
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Joined: November 7th, 2007, 12:55 am

April 4th, 2010, 4:11 am #7

If we identify the main theme of, and shared by, most, if not all, organized and institutionalized religions, then we will find it rather mundane policy; humbuggery.
- religion

Any BS tends to be infected, more or less, by this sneaky creature: the humbug

Religion, may have, started out quite innocently meant to convey -and direct by means of all sorts of symbolism towards- 'truth', soon it became misconception. Eventually, wittingly or unwittingly, it turned misdirection, and finally evolved into organized and institutionalized doctrine: a power tool.

See "Cargo Cults"; a micro of the macro, to get an idea of how the religion principle 'works'; how it starts out, and what it, over time, turns in to.

We can also take the short route and identify the main theme of most, if not all, organized and institutionalized religions; "to obtain".

- us

Do humans exist due to (the) god(notion) or does (the) god(notion) exist due to humans?

To a child its parents are all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present perfect beings who will love the child no matter what.

Our deepest, darkest fear is that we cannot be loved; that we are unloveable, because being loved is the most important thing to us since our instinct tells us our parents should love us unconditionally. Then, when our parents punish us; condition us, to turn us into 'civilised' human beings, the unconditional love cognition is damaged and our greatest pain and fear is born.

We therefore create substitutes and alternative ways to obtain unconditional love. Worship is one of those ways.

The dissonant reasoning behind it is, if we worship, i.e. 'love', something, a substitute, unconditionally enough, it'll unconditionally 'love' us back.
That's how come a "God" -to be loved but also to be feared because of punishment and therefore to be worshipped to avoid 'pain'- came to pass; created in our own image, of course, hence its many human traits.

"God"; a substitute, a (contradictory) fiction, taking care of us and everything, displays a defence mechanism known as 'the repression response'; a coping strategie, at best - a power tool, for worse.


- god

Gods-R-Us

God is supposed to be perfect. If God is perfect, then God desires nothing - such is the nature of perfect. A perfect creator-God is therefore self-refuting and that of which its nature is self-contradictory cannot, and therefore does not, exist.

An imperfect creator-God might be compelled to create what it does not have or feels is missing. Imperfect however, begets imperfection - which explains why imperfections exist - since ultimately it is God who created all that is.

A creator-God therefore, must be, by deduction, imperfect.

Those imperfect creator(god)s r-us.




If the bible is literally true
then what better truth in support
of negating much of what it claims
and if believers would actually know
what they claim, they would be known
as knowers, not as believers......



People are intrinsically intelligent

When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such


Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is no known law of nature, no known process and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter.

Werner Gitt, (information scientist),
Author of - In the Beginning Was Information
________________________

In my view, God has proven IT exists even if people never did. This takes the emotional debate of man's need for a God and ending it's importance to the debate. So let us go beyond that non-sense.

When we take as example:

The - never existing - original bacterium, "MIRACULOUSLY" assembling itself into a living being (in a sea of boiling, lifeless chemicals), one need ponder how incredible that was. Here you have a living agent that never existed before being produced in an environment so detrimental to life it boggles the mind. Now, unlike you & I who needed our mother womb to provide protection from the external elements, and genetic information to develop our DNA mechanisms - that translate internal information, absorb nutrients, expelled toxins/waste, and allow for self replication

Our lowly bacterium had no mommy! No one to give him genetic information.
Yet, when you think about it, in order to replicate himself in this horribly harsh environment, some how without ever existing he already had the immediate ability to fight off the elements, translate information that allowed for nutritional mechanisms. He had the immediate ability to expell toxins & waste, and the uncanny ability to self replicate itself...meaning all the genetic properties necessary for rebirth information were already INFUSED into this little fella's DNA.

---DNA that never existed prior to it's assembling by itself in a pool of boiling hot chemicals.

Now most DNA is made up of billions of lines on syntax. That's like computer code. Intelligent information.

There is no known law of nature, no known process and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter.

HHhhmmm...God may very well have had something to do with evolution.

Without finding something to argue about, try for a moment to ponder this.

Panspermia? This only moves it to another celestial body, the reality of the information system being in place still exists.
Last edited by Highland888 on April 4th, 2010, 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 7th, 2007, 12:55 am

April 4th, 2010, 5:15 am #8


"The origin of the genetic code presents formidable unsolved problems. The coded information in the nucleotide sequence is meaningless without the translation machinery, but the specification for his machinery is itself coded in the DNA. Thus without the machinery the information is meaningless, but without the coded information, the machinery cannot be produced.

Chemist John Walton





The Nature of Information Systems Dr. Mark Eastman


The modern field of information science has revolutionized our daily lives in the last four decades. Computers, fax machines, cellular phones and many other daily conveniences would not have been possible without the rapid advances in the field of information theory.

In recent years information engineers have examined the nature of the genetic code and concluded that it is an error correcting digital coding system. While digital coding systems can be very complex, error correcting digital codes are much less common and much more complex. Furthermore, the DNA molecule has built-in redundancy. That is, the same packet of information (called a gene) is often located in more than one place in the organism's DNA. Consequently, if one gene becomes corrupted with informational errors, the backup gene will take over the function of that gene! This level of complexity is found in only the most sophisticated computer system.

The DNA coding system can be compared to that of a compact disc. The music on a compact disc is stored in a digital fashion and can only be appreciated if you have a knowledge of the language convention used to create the information on the disc. Appropriate machinery, which functions to translate that code into music, is also required for the music to be played. In a compact disc player this decoding process involved dozens of electronic and moving parts.

It isn't much different in the living cell. The information carried by the DNA molecule contains the instructions for all the structures and functions of the human body. Within each cell resides all the necessary hardware to decode and utilize that information.

When we look at a compact disc, we see no evidence of the musical information stored on the disc's surface. We see only the rainbow effect on the surface of the disc. Without the knowledge of the language convention used to create the disc and the machinery to translate it, we must simply be content with the colorful surface. This is exactly the same dilemma we face with spontaneously derived DNA or any information storage system. 3

If we examine the sequence of nucleotides on the DNA molecule, they simply have the appearance of a long chain of chemicals and not the appearance of a message system or a code. It is only when one possesses a knowledge of the language convention (the genetic code) and the appropriate machinery to translate the coded information on the DNA molecule, that the nucleotide sequence becomes understandable. Without such knowledge and machinery, the sequences on a spontaneously derived DNA molecule are meaningless.

Consequently, the enormous challenge facing the scientific materialist is to explain how a language convention (the genetic code) and the necessary cellular machinery to translate the information stored on the DNA molecule arose independently without intelligent guidance.

The chicken-egg dilemma has confounded scientists for decades.
Last edited by Highland888 on April 4th, 2010, 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 7th, 2007, 12:55 am

April 4th, 2010, 5:35 am #9

God exists!

And - " Happy Easter " because HE exists!

Miraculously He created "the big bang" too. From a void of absolute nothingness to an intelligent universe with instant laws governing gravity, entropy, light & time!

Laws that can be measured such as the background radiation emanating throughout the universe... proving the big bang took place and actually had a beginning.

And with a beginning a BEGINNER. Laws that did not exist one moment, became universal and measurable from ages past.

Happy Easter!

An Intelligent God Exists.
Last edited by Highland888 on April 4th, 2010, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 4th, 2010, 10:32 am #10

There is no known law of nature, no known process and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter.

Werner Gitt, (information scientist),
Author of - In the Beginning Was Information
________________________

In my view, God has proven IT exists even if people never did. This takes the emotional debate of man's need for a God and ending it's importance to the debate. So let us go beyond that non-sense.

When we take as example:

The - never existing - original bacterium, "MIRACULOUSLY" assembling itself into a living being (in a sea of boiling, lifeless chemicals), one need ponder how incredible that was. Here you have a living agent that never existed before being produced in an environment so detrimental to life it boggles the mind. Now, unlike you & I who needed our mother womb to provide protection from the external elements, and genetic information to develop our DNA mechanisms - that translate internal information, absorb nutrients, expelled toxins/waste, and allow for self replication

Our lowly bacterium had no mommy! No one to give him genetic information.
Yet, when you think about it, in order to replicate himself in this horribly harsh environment, some how without ever existing he already had the immediate ability to fight off the elements, translate information that allowed for nutritional mechanisms. He had the immediate ability to expell toxins & waste, and the uncanny ability to self replicate itself...meaning all the genetic properties necessary for rebirth information were already INFUSED into this little fella's DNA.

---DNA that never existed prior to it's assembling by itself in a pool of boiling hot chemicals.

Now most DNA is made up of billions of lines on syntax. That's like computer code. Intelligent information.

There is no known law of nature, no known process and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter.

HHhhmmm...God may very well have had something to do with evolution.

Without finding something to argue about, try for a moment to ponder this.

Panspermia? This only moves it to another celestial body, the reality of the information system being in place still exists.
... the biblical perfect creator-God would not, as the reason given postulates: that of which its nature self-refuting cannot, and therefore does not, exist - Ockham's Razor seems to affirm that notion.

If we want a biblical, perfect creator-God to exist, then we must explain how something that is intrinsically contradictory can exist. Reasoning and Logic demands we cannot.


where abstractions are concerned
never be too sure about what
you (think you) are sure of



People are intrinsically intelligent

When people are put together, they could become a herd
When people turn a herd, they could become sheeple
When people turn sheeple, they could become dumb animals
When people turn dumb animals, they become treated as such


Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!



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Like
Share