Straight from the mouth of a (former) Christian apologist

Straight from the mouth of a (former) Christian apologist

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

September 7th, 2010, 5:43 pm #1

Saturday, September 4, 2010
Straight from the mouth of a (former) Christian apologist
Ken Pulliam is a former Christian apologist with a Ph. D. in Theology from Bob Jones University. He maintains an interesting blog entitled Why I De-Converted from Evangelical Christianity. He was recently interviewed by Luke Muehlhauser on the excellent podcast Conversations from the Pale Blue Dot and this quote caught my attention:

"Christians disagree on just about every doctrine there is .. If the Bible is really a revelation from God and if God really loves man and really wants to reconcile man to himself, would he not have made it much clearer how someone is to be saved? I know that if my children were separated from me and I had the opportunity to write them a letter to tell them how to get back to me, I certainly wouldn't do it in parables and language that's ambiguous enough that it can be interpreted a thousand different ways. I would do my best to make it crystal clear how they could find me .. and if I would do that as a finite human being, certainly god being infinite and being omniscient could find a way to do that. So as I looked at the Bible, as I read it, as I studied it I just came to the conclusion that it cannot be from a divine being."
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

September 7th, 2010, 6:21 pm #3

Saturday, September 4, 2010
Straight from the mouth of a (former) Christian apologist
Ken Pulliam is a former Christian apologist with a Ph. D. in Theology from Bob Jones University. He maintains an interesting blog entitled Why I De-Converted from Evangelical Christianity. He was recently interviewed by Luke Muehlhauser on the excellent podcast Conversations from the Pale Blue Dot and this quote caught my attention:

"Christians disagree on just about every doctrine there is .. If the Bible is really a revelation from God and if God really loves man and really wants to reconcile man to himself, would he not have made it much clearer how someone is to be saved? I know that if my children were separated from me and I had the opportunity to write them a letter to tell them how to get back to me, I certainly wouldn't do it in parables and language that's ambiguous enough that it can be interpreted a thousand different ways. I would do my best to make it crystal clear how they could find me .. and if I would do that as a finite human being, certainly god being infinite and being omniscient could find a way to do that. So as I looked at the Bible, as I read it, as I studied it I just came to the conclusion that it cannot be from a divine being."
"God", if he really wanted could make things pretty darned clear. Why allow for all these religions, when "god" knows that billions of them are wrong? In fact, all could be wrong. Aw heck,there was a little translation error or redaction back a couple of thousand years ago, and the one Essential Doctrine got lost ..

Ya know. On you're 10th birthday "God" visits you and does a download to your brain, telling you all you need to know and do. And gives you a DVD too, just for a refresher. With "trailers" of Heaven .. and maybe one of "Hell" too.


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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

September 7th, 2010, 8:37 pm #4

Saturday, September 4, 2010
Straight from the mouth of a (former) Christian apologist
Ken Pulliam is a former Christian apologist with a Ph. D. in Theology from Bob Jones University. He maintains an interesting blog entitled Why I De-Converted from Evangelical Christianity. He was recently interviewed by Luke Muehlhauser on the excellent podcast Conversations from the Pale Blue Dot and this quote caught my attention:

"Christians disagree on just about every doctrine there is .. If the Bible is really a revelation from God and if God really loves man and really wants to reconcile man to himself, would he not have made it much clearer how someone is to be saved? I know that if my children were separated from me and I had the opportunity to write them a letter to tell them how to get back to me, I certainly wouldn't do it in parables and language that's ambiguous enough that it can be interpreted a thousand different ways. I would do my best to make it crystal clear how they could find me .. and if I would do that as a finite human being, certainly god being infinite and being omniscient could find a way to do that. So as I looked at the Bible, as I read it, as I studied it I just came to the conclusion that it cannot be from a divine being."
If there's so much angst & disagreement about something, it's unlikly that it's "of God".

In my experience, anyway.



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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

September 8th, 2010, 8:24 am #5


According to doctrine, it is ultimately God who authored the Bible.

What do you think, did God author the Bible?
<p align="right"> 
<p align="right">If assertions can only be accepted on faith, then it is conceded what is proposed cannot be taken on its own merits

Brought to you by:

<img alt="punchandjudynews.jpg" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... dynews.jpg">


<p align="right">**And I still feel the content of my posts should be scrutinized on their own merits and nothing else (mumble .. grumble .. mutter)**
<p align="left">- fallacious, abductive, inductive, deductive
are the basic modes of reasoning -- when we
fail to discern between them, we are destined
to act accordingly ......

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... hink-1.gif">
<p align="center">... after all, logic demands explicit contains implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... talk-1.gif">
<p align="right">... and such is the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation; those oblivious of it are indispensably
the experts in applying it, in effect, revealing the exact
opposite of apparent intent thereby granting the courtesy
of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... arch-1.gif">

<p align="left">Ardent believers turn out to be quite useful creatures
because they seem to be some sort of omniscient.
You can therefore always depend on them to tell you
exactly what your thoughts and feelings are
and what your opinions and conduct should be.

Handy.

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... rite-1.gif">
<p align="center">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... s.gif">[hr]There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22
Last edited by JVH on September 8th, 2010, 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

September 8th, 2010, 8:30 am #6

"God", if he really wanted could make things pretty darned clear. Why allow for all these religions, when "god" knows that billions of them are wrong? In fact, all could be wrong. Aw heck,there was a little translation error or redaction back a couple of thousand years ago, and the one Essential Doctrine got lost ..

Ya know. On you're 10th birthday "God" visits you and does a download to your brain, telling you all you need to know and do. And gives you a DVD too, just for a refresher. With "trailers" of Heaven .. and maybe one of "Hell" too.

.... it's only logical God would author an omni-interpretable book, right?

 
<p align="right">If assertions can only be accepted on faith, then it is conceded what is proposed cannot be taken on its own merits
<p align="left"><font size="2">Brought to you by:

<img alt="punchandjudynews.jpg" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... pg"></font>


<p align="right">**And I still feel the content of my posts should be scrutinized on their own merits and nothing else (mumble .. grumble .. mutter)**
<p align="left">- fallacious, abductive, inductive, deductive
are the basic modes of reasoning -- when we
fail to discern between them, we are destined
to act accordingly ......


<p align="center">... after all, logic demands explicit contains implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...


<p align="right">... and such is the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation; those oblivious of it are indispensably
the experts in applying it, in effect, revealing the exact
opposite of apparent intent thereby granting the courtesy
of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles



<p align="left">Ardent believers turn out to be quite useful creatures
because they seem to be some sort of omniscient.
You can therefore always depend on them to tell you
exactly what your thoughts and feelings are
and what your opinions and conduct should be.

Handy.


<p align="center">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22
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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

September 8th, 2010, 11:14 am #7

According to doctrine, it is ultimately God who authored the Bible.

What do you think, did God author the Bible?
<p align="right"> 
<p align="right">If assertions can only be accepted on faith, then it is conceded what is proposed cannot be taken on its own merits

Brought to you by:

<img alt="punchandjudynews.jpg" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... dynews.jpg">


<p align="right">**And I still feel the content of my posts should be scrutinized on their own merits and nothing else (mumble .. grumble .. mutter)**
<p align="left">- fallacious, abductive, inductive, deductive
are the basic modes of reasoning -- when we
fail to discern between them, we are destined
to act accordingly ......

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... hink-1.gif">
<p align="center">... after all, logic demands explicit contains implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... talk-1.gif">
<p align="right">... and such is the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation; those oblivious of it are indispensably
the experts in applying it, in effect, revealing the exact
opposite of apparent intent thereby granting the courtesy
of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... arch-1.gif">

<p align="left">Ardent believers turn out to be quite useful creatures
because they seem to be some sort of omniscient.
You can therefore always depend on them to tell you
exactly what your thoughts and feelings are
and what your opinions and conduct should be.

Handy.

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... rite-1.gif">
<p align="center">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... s.gif">[hr]There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22
Some of writings even give credit to the proper author. And it's been translated countless times.

Humans (who have political needs to justify their dogma and doctrine) claim that it was written by God. But it's clear from the evidence that it was written by humans.

I don't doubt that the profound and poignant content is inspired but God, but that's not the question you asked.
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

September 8th, 2010, 12:47 pm #8


 

It might therefore be interesting to hear what your take might be on the following proposition(s):

the main problem (ardent) believers face is that explicit entails implicit - this little truism shows it incontrovertibly axiomatic that the implications of their dogmas undermine the explicit doctrine those dogmas depend upon.
<p align="right"> 
<p align="right">If assertions can only be accepted on faith, then it is conceded what is proposed cannot be taken on its own merits
<p align="left"><font size="2">Brought to you by:

<img alt="punchandjudynews.jpg" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... pg"></font>


<p align="right">**And I still feel the content of my posts should be scrutinized on their own merits and nothing else (mumble .. grumble .. mutter)**
<p align="left">- fallacious, abductive, inductive, deductive
are the basic modes of reasoning -- when we
fail to discern between them, we are destined
to act accordingly ......


<p align="center">... after all, logic demands explicit contains implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...


<p align="right">... and such is the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation; those oblivious of it are indispensably
the experts in applying it, in effect, revealing the exact
opposite of apparent intent thereby granting the courtesy
of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles



<p align="left">Ardent believers turn out to be quite useful creatures
because they seem to be some sort of omniscient.
You can therefore always depend on them to tell you
exactly what your thoughts and feelings are
and what your opinions and conduct should be.

Handy.


<p align="center">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

September 8th, 2010, 1:54 pm #9

Some of writings even give credit to the proper author. And it's been translated countless times.

Humans (who have political needs to justify their dogma and doctrine) claim that it was written by God. But it's clear from the evidence that it was written by humans.

I don't doubt that the profound and poignant content is inspired but God, but that's not the question you asked.
Yep, men wrote the Bible.

If "God" wanted to, he'd burn a DVD ..

He doesn't want to. The purpose of life? Live it.

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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

September 8th, 2010, 2:04 pm #10

.... it's only logical God would author an omni-interpretable book, right?

 
<p align="right">If assertions can only be accepted on faith, then it is conceded what is proposed cannot be taken on its own merits
<p align="left"><font size="2">Brought to you by:

<img alt="punchandjudynews.jpg" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... pg"></font>


<p align="right">**And I still feel the content of my posts should be scrutinized on their own merits and nothing else (mumble .. grumble .. mutter)**
<p align="left">- fallacious, abductive, inductive, deductive
are the basic modes of reasoning -- when we
fail to discern between them, we are destined
to act accordingly ......


<p align="center">... after all, logic demands explicit contains implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...


<p align="right">... and such is the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation; those oblivious of it are indispensably
the experts in applying it, in effect, revealing the exact
opposite of apparent intent thereby granting the courtesy
of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles



<p align="left">Ardent believers turn out to be quite useful creatures
because they seem to be some sort of omniscient.
You can therefore always depend on them to tell you
exactly what your thoughts and feelings are
and what your opinions and conduct should be.

Handy.


<p align="center">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22
Does not follow.




But .. clever!
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