Seems like we've reached an impasse'

Seems like we've reached an impasse'

Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

August 11th, 2010, 2:11 am #1

down below on the subject of Theophilus, "most excellent" and dating of the compilations of the 4 gospels.

It's pretty clear in my own mind ...but... I'm willing to muddy the waters of my mind some and declarify it all for meself ... if it will break the impasse'.

So I'm posing some fresh new source links which I haven't explored yet and pasting some meanings of "excellent" from the new testament, as they're used in the new testament. If the disagreeing parties want to look at these and find some new ammunition to use against my theory that the gospels were compiled in the middle of the second century and/or that Theophilus was NOT a person ... please go ahead!

http://www.thenazareneway.com/kratistosphilotnw

http://www.thenazareneway.com/index.htm

http://www.thenazareneway.com/gospels_s ... itings.htm



[ 2903 kratistov kratistos krat-is-tos

superlative of a derivative of 2904; ; adj

AV-most excellent 2, most noble 2; 4

1) mightiest, strongest, noblest, most illustrious, best, most excellent
1a) used in addressing men of prominent rank or office ]



[ 1308 diaferw diaphero dee-af-er-o

from 1223 and 5342; TDNT-9:62,1252

AV-be better 3, be of more value 2, differ from 2, should carry 1, publish 1, drive up and down 1, misc 3; 13

1) to bear or carry through any place
2) to carry different ways
2a) to carry in different directions, to different places
2a1) of people who are carried hither and thither in a ship, driven to and fro
2b) to differ, to test, prove, the good things that differ,
2b1) to distinguish between good and evil, lawful and unlawful, to approve of things that excel, to differ from one
2b2) to excel, surpass one
2c) impersonally, it makes a difference, it matters, is of importance ]



[ 5236 uperbolh huperbole hoop-er-bol-ay

from 5235; TDNT-8:520,1230; n f

AV-far more + 2596 1, exceeding + 2596 1, more excellent + 2596 1, out of measure + 2596 1, beyond measure + 2596 1, excellency 1, abundance 1, exceeding + 1519 1; 8

1) a throwing beyond
2) metaph.
2a) superiority, excellence, pre-eminence
2b) beyond measure, exceedingly, preeminently
2c) beyond all measure ]



[1313 diaforov diaphoros dee-af-or-os

from 1308; TDNT-9:62,1259; adj

AV-more excellent 2, differing 1, divers 1; 4

1) different, varying in kind
2) excellent, surpassing ]



[4119 pleiwn pleion pli-own neuter pleion pleion pli-on or pleon pleon pleh-on

comparative of 4183; ; adj

AV-more 23, many 12, greater 5, further + 1909 3, most 2, more part 2, not tr 1, misc 8; 56

1) greater in quantity
1a) the more part, very many
2) greater in quality, superior, more excellent ]



[ 3169 megaloprephv megaloprepes meg-al-op-rep-ace

from 3173 and 4241; TDNT-4:542,573; adj

AV-excellent 1; 1

1) befitting a great man, magnificent, splendid
2) full of majesty, majestic ]



All of the above appear as "excellent" in the King James translation. Pope claims though, that their vocabulary was very limited. It's a GOOD THING TOO!! Phew! I'd hate to have to find what all they came up with if their vocabulary had been more developed!

Which of the above was used to preface "Theophilus" in the Gospel of Luke?

-Vince
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

August 11th, 2010, 3:59 pm #2

the name Theopholis is found twice in the Bible,



Luk 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,



Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,





starting with Luke 1:1



Luk 1:1 ¶ Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,


Luk 1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;


Luk 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,


Luk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.


The name is "friend of God" so Luke is writing to all of us who are "friends of God":

why is he writing to us friends of God?

for the same reason that he TOO BECAME AN EYE WITNESS OF JESUS CHRIST as those who delivered these truths to him:

and as I explained, when I too had the SAME EXPERIENCE of becoming a "friend of God" as Abraham was called, the scriptures were my WITNESs that I was not crazy and that others had experienced these things before me:
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

August 11th, 2010, 4:44 pm #3

A secret person or persons. He wasn't writing to a generic bunch of people who "love God". If the explanation was so simple, there wouldn't be any question about it today. Someone -way back- would have asked Luke what he meant with that greeting and he would have laughed and said, "It's for any and all people who love God!" Thereafter, any one who asked would get that answer ... and we'd know today.

The "most excellent" was a title bestowed on someone "qualified"... someone initiated, who knew the "rules."

As I already pointed out in posts below -and in the past as well- ... a fact agreed to by scholars of the Bible ...

None of the early church fathers showed ANY knowledge of Jesus Christ, written about in the Gospels we see today. They may have had some of that knowledge but they sure didn't show it! They never started quoting the Gospels until about the middle of the second century. Instead, they quoted heftily from the OTestament writings and defined "Christian" as being anointed! (Bishop Theophilus of Antioch second century).

How is such a thing possible? Supposedly Christianity started from the life/death/resurrection of this fellow, Jesus of Nazareth. How could his followers, in only 100 years or so ... say that their faith was founded in being anointed with something?

Here's an example to think about, from the writing of "Luke" himself ...

Acts 18:24-25: Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, well versed in the scriptures. He had been instructed in The Way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.

How is that possible?

-Vince
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

August 11th, 2010, 6:16 pm #4

After all...
You've been given the same answer so many times...
-- Well, I've lost count...
And...
You still insist that "Theophilus" was a particular individual.

People are funny that way.
Sometimes, they just get some weirdness stuck in their head...
And, no matter how many times they're corrected...
That Weirdness just Won't come Unstuck.

But...
I must admit...
I'm beginning to shift over to your camp...
I mean...
If I'm agreeing with the Prophetess Yvonne...?
Well...
That's just TOO Weird now...
-- Isn't it...?

-PRev1-


President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

August 11th, 2010, 6:44 pm #5

You say, "You still insist that "Theophilus" was a particular individual."

I said to Yvonne, "Luke was writing to

A secret person or persons.

-Vince
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

August 11th, 2010, 7:13 pm #6

So...
You've given up on Theophilus-167, Bishop of Antioch then...?
-- What-Ever made you change your mind...?

-PRev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

August 11th, 2010, 7:26 pm #7

Pay closer attention!~

-Vince
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

August 11th, 2010, 10:25 pm #8

You Slippery Sod...!

Shall I fetch my hammer...
And try to nail down...
-- This Bowl of Jello...?

I think not.

-PRev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

August 11th, 2010, 11:05 pm #9

A secret person or persons. He wasn't writing to a generic bunch of people who "love God". If the explanation was so simple, there wouldn't be any question about it today. Someone -way back- would have asked Luke what he meant with that greeting and he would have laughed and said, "It's for any and all people who love God!" Thereafter, any one who asked would get that answer ... and we'd know today.

The "most excellent" was a title bestowed on someone "qualified"... someone initiated, who knew the "rules."

As I already pointed out in posts below -and in the past as well- ... a fact agreed to by scholars of the Bible ...

None of the early church fathers showed ANY knowledge of Jesus Christ, written about in the Gospels we see today. They may have had some of that knowledge but they sure didn't show it! They never started quoting the Gospels until about the middle of the second century. Instead, they quoted heftily from the OTestament writings and defined "Christian" as being anointed! (Bishop Theophilus of Antioch second century).

How is such a thing possible? Supposedly Christianity started from the life/death/resurrection of this fellow, Jesus of Nazareth. How could his followers, in only 100 years or so ... say that their faith was founded in being anointed with something?

Here's an example to think about, from the writing of "Luke" himself ...

Acts 18:24-25: Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, well versed in the scriptures. He had been instructed in The Way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.

How is that possible?

-Vince
Vince said...

A secret person or persons. He wasn't writing to a generic bunch of people who "love God". If the explanation was so simple, there wouldn't be any question about it today.

ME: there isn't any questions about it to those who are "friends of God" (Theophilus) but to those who have questions about it, they do and should continue to seek out the truth for themselves which you are doing: Good for you and Im all for your seeking...and finding. I care about your soul Vince: I have known you a long time so of course I want you to find all your answers to all your questions:


Vince continues....


Someone -way back- would have asked Luke what he meant with that greeting and he would have laughed and said, "It's for any and all people who love God!" Thereafter, any one who asked would get that answer ... and we'd know today.

The "most excellent" was a title bestowed on someone "qualified"... someone initiated, who knew the "rules."


ME: A friend of God is most excellent because of who LIVES IN THEM.....God lives in them:


Vince continues.....

As I already pointed out in posts below -and in the past as well- ... a fact agreed to by scholars of the Bible ...

None of the early church fathers showed ANY knowledge of Jesus Christ, written about in the Gospels we see today. They may have had some of that knowledge but they sure didn't show it! They never started quoting the Gospels until about the middle of the second century. Instead, they quoted heftily from the OTestament writings and defined "Christian" as being anointed! (Bishop Theophilus of Antioch second century).



ME: The last days are fast approaching and those who understand such terminology understand that things that were hidden in the beginning and revealed to just the elite and saints, are now revealed to all the world; The questions remains, who can "HEAR" these to whom it is revaled? To whom is the 'arm of the LORD revealed'? To those who have a witness of Jesus thats who. These also have the "Spirit of Prophecy" poured out on them, the HOLY SPIRIT that enables them to "grasp the truth" that sets them free and comfort them in their sanctification/affliction. It is written that the time would come when "NO MAN WOULD SAY KNOW GOD" for all would know him, from the least to the greatest. That time is near and I can't wait till everyone knows God so that the discussions will not be about "knowing him" but every soul sharing what they KNOW and having agreement in what one knows because they all have the "SAME MIND" which is the "mind of Christ" that leads them in all things holy:


Vince continues...

How is such a thing possible? Supposedly Christianity started from the life/death/resurrection of this fellow, Jesus of Nazareth. How could his followers, in only 100 years or so ... say that their faith was founded in being anointed with something?

Here's an example to think about, from the writing of "Luke" himself ...

Acts 18:24-25: Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, well versed in the scriptures. He had been instructed in The Way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.

How is that possible?

-Vince



ME: from the first anointed person to now, the same result applies to all members of the "Body of Jesus Christ"


the baptism of John is the return/repentance to the "ROOT of your soul", the beginning of all things in you, hence we enter the Kingdom as a child:


there are two roots that make up the tree of knowledge of good and evil....an evil root and a good and holy root: WE know the GOOD and HOLY ROOT is Christ in us which is why when we RETURN (Johns Baptism) we get the ENGRAFTING of that ROOT into us or us into that root: we PARTAKE of that same anointing that Jesus has as the CHRIST:


this is called BAPTISM into Jesus name, hence it is ONE BAPTISM, but in two parts: Water (which is Johns baptism) and according to the purification method of the Jews

and fire which is being dunked into CHRIST, made ONE SPIRIT with CHRIST and this is the HOLY SPIRIT baptism into Jesus name


Jesus said we had to be born of both water and Spirit and this is what he meant:

the water baptism or birth is to CROSS over the "sea" as Israel did from EGYPT to the PROMISED Land


after this the HOLY SPIRIT sanctifies the spirit of Israel in the wilderness with a fire baptism (glory cloud) but for them it was over them


at the second coming of CHRIST to Israel, which is at the "END of TIME" for their soul, the baptism by fire is complete; their spirit and CHRISTS SPIRIT will become ONE SPIRIT, hence it is written, He who is JOINED to the Lord is ONE Spirit (I Cor 6:17)


before this fire baptism can take place the SOUL has to cross over through the WATER (emotional brain or lymbic system) to get to the "other side"

once the SOUL is on the other side then the spirit within that soul is able to be baptized by fire which is the cross


but in fact this is what happens.....the cross preceedes the last correction in that first the cross happens (fire baptism) and the soul is taken into the wilderness to be sanctified (Johns baptism) and then the final fire baptism happens which is when the inner heavens come back to earth to face the enemies against God......and he burns them up


so its a three step process

the ego of man lives without God

then first Christ is revealed as the LIGHT that is the LIFE of Man

second Christ this LIGHT destroys the ego through this process which leaves a HUGE VOID where the ego was and this VOID without FORM is where GOD BEGINS AGAIN TO FORM THE SOUL of the LAST MAN who is JESUS with the CHRIST SPIRIT in that soul that has no FORM as of yet....

third this VOID is there because of the fire baptism and the water baptism TOGETHER; one part happens to the soul (emotions drown out, die with Christ) and one part happens to the spirit (crucified with Christ which is the "WILL" being nailed together as ONE SPIRIT)


together the NEW WILL and the NEW creation make a NEW MAN whose name is JESUS because his body is the Church and the head of CHURCH is the MAN JESUS whose head is CHRIST, whose head is GOD


so IN GOD all things exist and he finally EXISTS in all things

every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

August 11th, 2010, 11:23 pm #10

You Slippery Sod...!

Shall I fetch my hammer...
And try to nail down...
-- This Bowl of Jello...?

I think not.

-PRev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
what you believe! Remember though, movement is often a matter of perspective. Ever pressed your foot down hard on the brake because someone beside you was pulling away and you thought you were rolling backward?

-Vince
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