My wife recently went to an al-anon

My wife recently went to an al-anon

Joined: March 8th, 2007, 6:53 am

May 8th, 2011, 10:22 pm #1

convention in Erie Pennsyl.
She returned with a few CD's of the talks given there. Noramlly there is complete anonymity in the program...but the one speaker openly declares his story is not....it is a miraculous one.

The guy's first name is Lyle....(and again he openly states it is okay to say whom he is on the CD)

but this guy was 'THAT' flight Captain around 1990 who was deemed drunk on the job. it was bigtime news....

here is his story.

http://www.avmed.in/2011/02/from-convic ... le-reborn/


G-d is there waiting to help us all....if we have faith and ask Him. Nothing is too big for G-d to conquere!

amen.
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iceman
iceman

May 9th, 2011, 2:40 pm #2

O.K. Gerard. Explain to me how an open public meeting is anonymous.

Answer - It isn't. Just more AA twelve step hype. The entire program is a total failure in so far as drinking is concerned. It's about religion and not alcohol addiction. AA's actual success rate is less than two percent. It is a program that destroys far more lives than it helps. So don't push it.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

May 9th, 2011, 2:44 pm #3

Just a parallel, weight loss.

95% of people that lose weight gain it all back, often gaining more than they lost.

Other issues, like living a life of crime, and drug addiction are similar. Human beings have a hard time making real changes in their lives. With or without a "higher power".

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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

May 9th, 2011, 4:18 pm #4

the 12 steps work but like anything, it works if you work them:

Christianity works, but only if You receive CHRIST IN FAITH......meaning if you use the faith that is given to you, authored in you and eventually finished in you

those who give up, never make much happen in any area of life, whether it is finishing school, hanging in with your spouse till you work out the crap that brings half the people to divorce

really anything....


there are going to be more and more people who finish the race in the years to come and here is why


there is no place left to turn.......and when one finds this lack of a different direction, they become ready for the TRUTH that sets them free

as long as we have lots of options, we cling to the HOPE that there is another way we can be happy

once we find that all our options are exhausted, we either sink into permanant despair

or we BEGIN to cling to the HOPE we denied for so long:


every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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iceman
iceman

May 9th, 2011, 9:23 pm #5

The rate of spontanious remission is actually higher than AA's recovery rate. That is people who just decide they don't want any more is more successful than AA. AA is nothing more than a evil cult. It does far more damage than good. AA's disease concept is a joke. Alcohol dependency is not a disease and there is no such thing as a alcoholic.

Granted bad habits are difficult to break. But they are harder to break if you condemn yourself and live one day at a time.

The twelve steps are total hogwash and they don't work no matter how much you try. AA is just another sick excuse to relapse and keep on drinking.

The founder of AA was a psychotic, thus all the god crap. AA is based off the Oxford Group which was founded by a whacko Luthern minister.

AA is a evangelical christian organization and that is its sole purpose.
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Tim
Tim

May 9th, 2011, 10:20 pm #6

The focus is on drugs and alcohol addiction, but the 28 bullets blow me away and it was fun. The 28 bullets for the beast could be used for any type of unhealthy desire. Its amazingly revealing to understand this concept, and it seems to ring true. Read the 28 bullets for the beast.

Rational Recovery does work. No religion and no meetingshttps://rational.org/index.php?id=1

Amazing!

Thanks for sharing that Iceman

Tim
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

May 10th, 2011, 2:14 am #7

the 12 steps work but like anything, it works if you work them:

Christianity works, but only if You receive CHRIST IN FAITH......meaning if you use the faith that is given to you, authored in you and eventually finished in you

those who give up, never make much happen in any area of life, whether it is finishing school, hanging in with your spouse till you work out the crap that brings half the people to divorce

really anything....


there are going to be more and more people who finish the race in the years to come and here is why


there is no place left to turn.......and when one finds this lack of a different direction, they become ready for the TRUTH that sets them free

as long as we have lots of options, we cling to the HOPE that there is another way we can be happy

once we find that all our options are exhausted, we either sink into permanant despair

or we BEGIN to cling to the HOPE we denied for so long:

What is the secret for those 2 to 5%.

I don't know. Something at the very root I suppose. A very real transformation occurs in a very few. Some can fake it, and thereby show some external changes. But the internal is unchanged, and thus, in time, the external reflects that once again.

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Joined: March 8th, 2007, 6:53 am

May 10th, 2011, 2:19 am #8

O.K. Gerard. Explain to me how an open public meeting is anonymous.

Answer - It isn't. Just more AA twelve step hype. The entire program is a total failure in so far as drinking is concerned. It's about religion and not alcohol addiction. AA's actual success rate is less than two percent. It is a program that destroys far more lives than it helps. So don't push it.
sounds like you were in the program and you couldn't work it out....am i right?

unfair of you to blame the program for you own failures ther Ice.

i would say you have absolutely have ZERO chance to prove the claim you made that "It is a program that destroys far more lives than it helps"

so i understannd therefore the only alternative you would in this discussion would be to resort to the 'personal'

anyone with true rock bottom addiction....who still is proud enough to claim the can fix their issues or are in control....well ya....they will fail for certainty in the 12 step program.

i do not think it is any secret the 12 step program is about placing one's addiction and character failures into the hands of a higher power....anyone int he program...who has any...ANY aspirations outside of that....should not be in the program to begin with. it is not anywhere that can be proven by you...a religious program.....

it certinly is as a very basis... SPIRITUAL one.

i have no problems if you disgaree...but i am only asking you try to support why you do. Look closely at exactly my contentious here please....

and io certainly would be interested in you showing me how the PROGRAM...the program itself is oin that does this: 'It is a program that destroys far more lives than it helps.

and how so.

imv that is not 'pushing' anything....just discussion.

any proof would be helpful.....any at all.
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Iceman
Iceman

May 10th, 2011, 2:25 am #9

What is the secret for those 2 to 5%.

I don't know. Something at the very root I suppose. A very real transformation occurs in a very few. Some can fake it, and thereby show some external changes. But the internal is unchanged, and thus, in time, the external reflects that once again.
Change can and does occur. But your right in that the change must be internal. Rational recovery is just one tool, but it has had significant results for overeating, sex addictions, and so on. Hypnosis is another very effective tool but generally successful only with a skilled practioner.

The most important element is the desire for change. Just saying it doesn't make it so.

Religion is not a source for change - it is mere babble. "Oh God relieve me of my 200 pounds of fat" - while eating pizza.

Religion has never relieved any one of anything, other than money.
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Joined: March 8th, 2007, 6:53 am

May 10th, 2011, 2:39 am #10

What is the secret for those 2 to 5%.

I don't know. Something at the very root I suppose. A very real transformation occurs in a very few. Some can fake it, and thereby show some external changes. But the internal is unchanged, and thus, in time, the external reflects that once again.
you a simple question? I won't ask anything further....i am just curiouys M....

have you had anyone in your immediate family who was ever in the 12 step program??

thanks.

(it my assertion you have not...and apologize if in error)
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