Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner?

Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner?

Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

May 16th, 2012, 12:07 am #1

Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner?

Some more enlightened Christians are trying to mature Christianity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

The Christian invention of hell and Christian strong desire for it to exist, shows a hatred that is quite deep within the Christian tribal soul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQua ... r_embedded

Jesus would not cast the first stone yet Christians adamantly demand that he cast the last killing stone called hell.

You will reap what you sow Christian.

This will be you unless you repent from your hating ways. You are corrupting Jesus and his good archetypal name.

I predict this following for you if you do not lose your hate for those who just happen by accident of birth to not believe as you do. Beware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3LNL6wKhXA

Regards
DL

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Tim
Tim

May 16th, 2012, 3:18 am #2

So it depends if the Bible is true or not....

And if the Bible is true, it talks about you, appearing to some people to be a ministers of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matthew24:4
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

And Jesus said;
Matthew 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

John14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

For your own sake DL, maybe you should consider becoming a Christian.
Then when Jesus returns as King of kings and Lord of lords He might not be so angry with you.

Tim
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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

May 16th, 2012, 11:17 am #3

If the bible is true, as you seem to think it is even though it is all myth, then you might recall that it says that your God also gave Satan the power to deceiver the whole world.

So what should you do?

Go by moral standards, right?

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Is hell good?

Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2012, not 112.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn4rK ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQa ... re=related


If you are going to go by morality, then question your morality.

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice. As scriptures urge when they are not preaching death for miniscule sins.
Gods punishment seems to surpass this standard.

The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.


To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?
This might actually include God if you see Noahs flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not Gods as no one can speak for God.

As for my dropping being a Gnostic Christian and becoming Christian. No thanks, my soul is too important for me to join a religion based on human sacrifice that in and of itself is immoral.

You go ahead though and line up for heaven in that line on the right but do not be surprised when you join Kenny in hell. That is the place for those who will try to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered

Regards
DL
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

May 17th, 2012, 12:25 am #4

Is hell anything like -- do unto others and love the sinner?

Some more enlightened Christians are trying to mature Christianity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

The Christian invention of hell and Christian strong desire for it to exist, shows a hatred that is quite deep within the Christian tribal soul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQua ... r_embedded

Jesus would not cast the first stone yet Christians adamantly demand that he cast the last killing stone called hell.

You will reap what you sow Christian.

This will be you unless you repent from your hating ways. You are corrupting Jesus and his good archetypal name.

I predict this following for you if you do not lose your hate for those who just happen by accident of birth to not believe as you do. Beware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3LNL6wKhXA

Regards
DL
You sent me on a Morning of Adventure...
Through yet another Game of...
-- Youtube Tag.

One video just kept leading to another.

Carlton Pearson.
-- A Fundy turned Universalist.

Just goes to show...
The Evolution of Religious Understanding...
-- Continues.
And...
There's Still Hope for Christianity.

-PRev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --


"If you suddenly think Stephen Colbert is truly right wing, that's when I would worry."
-- Neuropsychologist Katherine Rankin.
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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

May 17th, 2012, 1:20 am #5

Only if they stop reading their scriptures literally and that is not likely. They will die a long painful death and it is our duty to help them die.

Regards
DL
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

May 17th, 2012, 2:52 am #6

He stopped reading the text literally.
But...
Only AFTER he began to Educate himself.
-- Education IS the Key.

The Promulgators of the Christian Myth...
Have had 2000 years to Perpetuate their Propaganda.
So, naturally...
The Flock's Acceptance of Reality...
-- Isn't going to happen over night.

Still...
The John Shelby Spongs...
And the Carlton Pearsons...
-- CAN, and DO...
-- Make a Difference.

When YOU watched those videos...
What were YOU Looking at...?
-- Spong and Pearson...
Or...
The Resistance Offered...
By Their Opposition...?

To paraphrase the title of an article...
From Psychology Today...
-- When we change the way we look at things...
-- The things we're looking at...
-- Will begin to change.

It's all a matter of...
-- Perspective.

-PRev1-
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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

May 17th, 2012, 3:03 am #7

As a Gnostic Christian, I like to view things from all sides and try to keep an open mind and see what drops in.

Said about Gnostics and Christians.

Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read black where I read white.
William Blake



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Tim
Tim

May 17th, 2012, 5:11 am #8

If the bible is true, as you seem to think it is even though it is all myth, then you might recall that it says that your God also gave Satan the power to deceiver the whole world.

So what should you do?

Go by moral standards, right?

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Is hell good?

Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2012, not 112.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn4rK ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQa ... re=related


If you are going to go by morality, then question your morality.

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice. As scriptures urge when they are not preaching death for miniscule sins.
Gods punishment seems to surpass this standard.

The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.


To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?
This might actually include God if you see Noahs flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not Gods as no one can speak for God.

As for my dropping being a Gnostic Christian and becoming Christian. No thanks, my soul is too important for me to join a religion based on human sacrifice that in and of itself is immoral.

You go ahead though and line up for heaven in that line on the right but do not be surprised when you join Kenny in hell. That is the place for those who will try to profit from God having his son needlessly murdered

Regards
DL
is that God was never a man and the death of men doesn't mean as much to Him as it seems to, to you and me. And besides God makes them alive as He desires.

""It is your view I seek and not Gods as no one can speak for God.""

My view is Jesus spoke for God, in the OT and the NT.
My view is no man has seen nor heard God at any time accept Jesus.

My view is that hell and torment is not forever. And that may sound strange to you, but I believe hell and death will be consumes and exist no more.

My view is also that some people are not "children of God", but somehow children of Satan, and I don't fully understand how that works. But Jesus says its like the Tares and the Wheat in a farmers field.

I don't believe hell is a punishment for uneducated blind sin, I do believe hell is punishment for rebellion against God. And I think God is wise enough and jest enough to judge the difference between someone who is able to reason and someone who is unable to reason. And I believe Jesus will teach the remainder and resurrected more truth when Jesus returns as King of kings.

A little off subject....
BUT, when Jesus returns I believe He will be serious about cleaning house!
And that is why its called the Great and Terrible day of the Lord.

I do not believe Jesus is God.
I do not believe in the Trinity.
I do not believe Mary remained a virgin after Jesus birth.

I do believe the Catholic church is the modern day Babylonian religious system past down though the generation from Nimrod. And Nimrod was like Noah's great grandson or something....

I believe both Satan and Jesus are VARY intelligent, because they've seen it all, from creation and they both understand the end as we call it.

That's basically my view.

Tim



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Tim
Tim

May 17th, 2012, 5:50 am #9

Only if they stop reading their scriptures literally and that is not likely. They will die a long painful death and it is our duty to help them die.

Regards
DL
Only if they stop reading their scriptures literally and that is not likely. They will die a long painful death and it is our duty to help them die.
Regards
DL
------------------------------------------------------------------

it is our duty to help them die?!?!?!?!

Now your becoming a Bible believer DL

Jesus said, talking about the believers;
Matthew24:9
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Well you've certainly identified yourself DL according to the scriptures.

Is this why Jesus said; Luke22:36
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

The worst and deadliest wars in the world have been over religious beliefs.
Are you unwittingly hastening Armageddon DL?

Do you realize what you are saying and teaching DL "help them die"?!?!
Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Ya, "a short time".... Strange how science and society and the Bible run parallel until they collide and a new age begins.

Tim





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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

May 17th, 2012, 8:06 am #10

He stopped reading the text literally.
But...
Only AFTER he began to Educate himself.
-- Education IS the Key.

The Promulgators of the Christian Myth...
Have had 2000 years to Perpetuate their Propaganda.
So, naturally...
The Flock's Acceptance of Reality...
-- Isn't going to happen over night.

Still...
The John Shelby Spongs...
And the Carlton Pearsons...
-- CAN, and DO...
-- Make a Difference.

When YOU watched those videos...
What were YOU Looking at...?
-- Spong and Pearson...
Or...
The Resistance Offered...
By Their Opposition...?

To paraphrase the title of an article...
From Psychology Today...
-- When we change the way we look at things...
-- The things we're looking at...
-- Will begin to change.

It's all a matter of...
-- Perspective.

-PRev1-
You said, "Carlton changed course .. only AFTER he began to Educate himself."

He said it came to him as a revelation (initially).

And I can identify with that from personal experience.

As long as I was a Bible believing Christian ... I believed "in hell." I didn't like to think about or dwell on it but I always assumed that it must be so ... because the Bible SAYS SO! I remember posting on an atheist forum and this guy challenged me (in the usual way) and I replied that I wisht it WEREN'T that way but that's how God decided it should be.

Now, it wasn't as though I'd never heard the counter-arguments. One of my aunts became a 7 day Adventist and she used to have arguments with my parents over hell ... when I was still a teenager. She gave all the right arguments (about hell being "hades" and Sheol -the grave ... and "Gehenna" the garbage pit of Jerusalem etc.)

But ... I thought she was just trying to find excuses ... escape mechanisms.

My own "crisis" about hell was possibly uniquely my own. It kept drumming through my mind: how can someone be born without their consent or decision ... and/but then be thrown into hell, simply for not making a decision?

Well, it was only AFTER I deconverted that I could look at the scriptures objectively and THEN ... I was able to do the study for myself and see that my aunt had been right all along. There IS NO solidarity in the hell doctrine to be FOUND in the NTestament ... when you look at the Greek words and definitions.

There's no one single word for hell. It's 3 different words with 3 different meanings.

So then, if hell is so crucial to the Christian doctrine ... why is the NTestament so utterly vague on its identity, definition and significance ... and so weak on warning?

-Vince
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