God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

June 1st, 2012, 11:43 pm #1

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBk ... re=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that Gods first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

Regards
DL
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Arthur Dent
Arthur Dent

June 2nd, 2012, 1:35 am #2

Their morality is warped.

Strangely they think they have a monopoly on the issue.

Our education system is having a bit of an upheaval at present where people are trying to substitute ethics for morals in school syllabus.

Morals (particularly christian morals) are a poor alternative, I think.

You've just highlighted one of the problems. They are barbarian in their genesis.

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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

June 2nd, 2012, 11:10 pm #3

No argument.

Are there no Christians here or have I just done to well with this O P?

Regards
DL
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Tim
Tim

June 3rd, 2012, 3:27 am #4

It may not be as simple as your assuming DL.

Romans4:24
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {set forth: or, foreordained} {remission: or, passing over}
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

To put it short, the only way God would accept us is if Jesus would be our leader, and that's what Christians do, accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. Because that's the will of God.

For the believer the ransom for our stupidity has been payed in full by the sacrifice our Lord Jesus willingly payed. And then Jesus was raised from the dead for our justification.

And I believe it to be true.

Tim


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Joined: April 17th, 2006, 10:37 pm

June 3rd, 2012, 7:54 am #5

No argument.

Are there no Christians here or have I just done to well with this O P?

Regards
DL
I'm a Christian, but my views aren't very traditional, and I don't know if they are what you are looking for.

I don't see that God condemned the world and then commanded Jesus, his son, to die for us.

I see that the people in the world rejected God, made up their own ideas about God, and tried to create God in their own image. And God said, "I love the world so much that I will come into the world as a human, live with them, teach them what I really want and who I really am, and I will give up my life for them."

I don't see God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit as being separate entities or beings. God IS spirit and is much bigger than we can imagine, filling the heavens and the earth. What we refer to as the Holy Spirit is the part of God that communes with and communicates with us, the part that can dwell within us. Jesus was a human being who lived here on Earth among us, but his spirit was entirely the Holy Spirit -- that is why he was referred to as the Son of God, and why he was without sin. At least, that is how I am understanding the concept of the incarnation right now.

JMHO.

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