Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology

Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

November 20th, 2011, 3:46 pm #1

Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology
~Dr Ko Ko Gyi

If you do not want to give a sincere apology, do not try to give a fake apology laced with excuses. Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology.

And do not try to cheat by just apologizing without a real remorse to avoid the consequences or to please the aggrieved party. But if you easily insult or repeatedly commit that sin again and again, even God has declared that He is not willing to pardon the repeat sinners who never repent.

Many years ago, when I read about the news of a court case in Singapore, when the presiding judge refused to accept the guilty plea and apology of the accused and ordered a trial, I could not understand immediately. But later only, I realized that in that case the accused pleaded guilty and apologized but with an excuse as if he was justifying what he did and the apology was also qualified.

It is like saying, "I am sorry for punching you but you have started the quarrel with an insult." That kind of apology is not an apology.

In order to qualify as an apology, and in layman's terms, we can say that it requires two parts:
regret (the "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" part), and
responsibility (some explicit statement that you were the one who did the thing that's being apologized for).
The conditions which will disqualify a statement as an apology if the above conditions are not also met_
e.g. if you don't actually regret the thing you're apologizing for,
and are only saying in order to just pleased the other party or recipient.
"I'm sorry that you're upset about me sending emails to all the friends telling my side of views in our dispute".

Although this statement _
Fulfils the regret criterion,
This could not satisfy the responsibility criterion, since the apologizer is expressing regret not for his action, but for someone else's emotion.
"I'm sorry if I I have actually talk bad about you to the boss"

The responsibility criterion is similarly missing here, since the apologizing person is expressing regret only if a condition is true, but weaselling out of any admission that it is true. The effect of statements like these, if used skilfully, is to make recipients feel as if they should feel apologized to, despite the fact that no actual apology ever took place. They're not apologies, but rhetorical tricks for weaseling out of taking actual responsibility.

If we look from the side of the apologizing party it is a double loss_
after humbling yourself enough to apologize
and your apology is rejected because it wasn't perceived as sincere.
Equally frustrating, is the fact that, more often than not, this perception is accurate.
So, take responsibility for your actions because people want to see you own up your mistakes. One must be accountable and admits to precisely what ones did wrong.

It must be an expression of repentance, of true regret or remorse, this step matters most for a sincere apology.
"I'm sorry that I have used harsh words on you."
"I'm sorry I said those things about you."
That should be it. Do not add the feelings you think you incited in the other person ("I'm sorry you misunderstood me" or "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt"); doing so shifts blame away from you, which is the opposite of taking responsibility for your actions.

Acknowledge the repercussions if your actions had resulted in some nasty repercussions.
"I'm sorry I blew off our meeting; now the entire project is in jeopardy."
"I'm sorry I said those things about your mother. They were uncalled for and I should never have let my anger get the better of me."
Don't add any qualifying clauses; they often begin with "if" ("I'm sorry if you got offended") or "but" ("Sorry about losing my temper, but sometimes you piss me off"). Doing so entirely negates your efforts.
It is better to reveal what you're going to do to correct the situation. Made a sincere apology by adding:

"I'm sorry I blew off our meeting; now the entire project is in jeopardy. I'll call the others to appeal for another meeting time."
Asking for the forgiveness is good. But do it without putting a time frame on it. Don't insist on an answer ("Do you forgive me?"). So it is better to tell like this:
"I'm sorry I said those things about your mother. They were uncalled for and I should never have let my anger get the better of me. I hope that you'll forgive me."
You need to Shut up and let the apologizing process end without further conversations.
Continuing to talk only waters down everything that's already been said.
If we try to squeeze in the last word to save face by mitigating our mistake.
We could unintentionally torpedo the whole apology.

e.g.: "But you know, you're not completely blameless in this whole thing"
or "C'mon, cut me some slack; everybody makes mistakes.
Even you have to admit - your mom can be a bitch."
We must learn to resist the urge to qualify your sincere apology ,
so it is best to shut up,
don't say another word,
and allow the matter end.
Things you'll need:
Understanding that no matter your intention, you did hurt them.
A lot of courage.
A little bit of time to apologize.
Tips & Warnings
Be sincere.
Be calm.
Be ready to accept criticism. While it can be humbling, you must be willing to accept how your actions made this person feel.
Be humble and understanding. You must not allow yourself to become defensive.
Be ready to let the person walk away if they must. Hopefully they will come back when they are ready, but that is not always possible.
This is a first step. Hopefully it starts you down a path to better relationship. If it isn't, at least you have done your best.
Do not qualify your apology. When we hear apologies like "I am sorry you took it that way." or "I am sorry if you are offended", that person is telling you that it is your fault they made a mistake.
Do not do this if you are angry. If you cannot remain calm, you will not be ready to listen.
Sources_
Idealist Pragmatist: When an apology is not an apology
AskMen.com:Make A Sincere Apology
How to Apologize to Someone Important to You by eHow.com :D o not qualify your apology
###
Last edited by Oscar50 on November 20th, 2011, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

November 20th, 2011, 4:37 pm #2

Excellent summary of articles and ideas.

I know I wasn't taught how to apologize and I've had to go through lots of trial and error to figure it out what works for me apologizing to others. I believe that an apology requires 3 parts.

1) Acknowledgement of being responsible for doing something wrong or hurting someone.
2) Expressing sincere remorse, regret, and/or sorry over the damage done.
3) A sincere offer to rectify the situation and put measures in place to help prevent the same mistake.

On the Internet, and discussion forums in particular, I think it's fair to say that very few apologies meet this simple criteria; which makes it hard to see them as sincere apologies, unfortunately.

I blame cell phones!
Last edited by ever-a-newbie on November 20th, 2011, 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Tim
Tim

November 20th, 2011, 4:41 pm #3

Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology
~Dr Ko Ko Gyi

If you do not want to give a sincere apology, do not try to give a fake apology laced with excuses. Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology.

And do not try to cheat by just apologizing without a real remorse to avoid the consequences or to please the aggrieved party. But if you easily insult or repeatedly commit that sin again and again, even God has declared that He is not willing to pardon the repeat sinners who never repent.

Many years ago, when I read about the news of a court case in Singapore, when the presiding judge refused to accept the guilty plea and apology of the accused and ordered a trial, I could not understand immediately. But later only, I realized that in that case the accused pleaded guilty and apologized but with an excuse as if he was justifying what he did and the apology was also qualified.

It is like saying, "I am sorry for punching you but you have started the quarrel with an insult." That kind of apology is not an apology.

In order to qualify as an apology, and in layman's terms, we can say that it requires two parts:
regret (the "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" part), and
responsibility (some explicit statement that you were the one who did the thing that's being apologized for).
The conditions which will disqualify a statement as an apology if the above conditions are not also met_
e.g. if you don't actually regret the thing you're apologizing for,
and are only saying in order to just pleased the other party or recipient.
"I'm sorry that you're upset about me sending emails to all the friends telling my side of views in our dispute".

Although this statement _
Fulfils the regret criterion,
This could not satisfy the responsibility criterion, since the apologizer is expressing regret not for his action, but for someone else's emotion.
"I'm sorry if I I have actually talk bad about you to the boss"

The responsibility criterion is similarly missing here, since the apologizing person is expressing regret only if a condition is true, but weaselling out of any admission that it is true. The effect of statements like these, if used skilfully, is to make recipients feel as if they should feel apologized to, despite the fact that no actual apology ever took place. They're not apologies, but rhetorical tricks for weaseling out of taking actual responsibility.

If we look from the side of the apologizing party it is a double loss_
after humbling yourself enough to apologize
and your apology is rejected because it wasn't perceived as sincere.
Equally frustrating, is the fact that, more often than not, this perception is accurate.
So, take responsibility for your actions because people want to see you own up your mistakes. One must be accountable and admits to precisely what ones did wrong.

It must be an expression of repentance, of true regret or remorse, this step matters most for a sincere apology.
"I'm sorry that I have used harsh words on you."
"I'm sorry I said those things about you."
That should be it. Do not add the feelings you think you incited in the other person ("I'm sorry you misunderstood me" or "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt"); doing so shifts blame away from you, which is the opposite of taking responsibility for your actions.

Acknowledge the repercussions if your actions had resulted in some nasty repercussions.
"I'm sorry I blew off our meeting; now the entire project is in jeopardy."
"I'm sorry I said those things about your mother. They were uncalled for and I should never have let my anger get the better of me."
Don't add any qualifying clauses; they often begin with "if" ("I'm sorry if you got offended") or "but" ("Sorry about losing my temper, but sometimes you piss me off"). Doing so entirely negates your efforts.
It is better to reveal what you're going to do to correct the situation. Made a sincere apology by adding:

"I'm sorry I blew off our meeting; now the entire project is in jeopardy. I'll call the others to appeal for another meeting time."
Asking for the forgiveness is good. But do it without putting a time frame on it. Don't insist on an answer ("Do you forgive me?"). So it is better to tell like this:
"I'm sorry I said those things about your mother. They were uncalled for and I should never have let my anger get the better of me. I hope that you'll forgive me."
You need to Shut up and let the apologizing process end without further conversations.
Continuing to talk only waters down everything that's already been said.
If we try to squeeze in the last word to save face by mitigating our mistake.
We could unintentionally torpedo the whole apology.

e.g.: "But you know, you're not completely blameless in this whole thing"
or "C'mon, cut me some slack; everybody makes mistakes.
Even you have to admit - your mom can be a bitch."
We must learn to resist the urge to qualify your sincere apology ,
so it is best to shut up,
don't say another word,
and allow the matter end.
Things you'll need:
Understanding that no matter your intention, you did hurt them.
A lot of courage.
A little bit of time to apologize.
Tips & Warnings
Be sincere.
Be calm.
Be ready to accept criticism. While it can be humbling, you must be willing to accept how your actions made this person feel.
Be humble and understanding. You must not allow yourself to become defensive.
Be ready to let the person walk away if they must. Hopefully they will come back when they are ready, but that is not always possible.
This is a first step. Hopefully it starts you down a path to better relationship. If it isn't, at least you have done your best.
Do not qualify your apology. When we hear apologies like "I am sorry you took it that way." or "I am sorry if you are offended", that person is telling you that it is your fault they made a mistake.
Do not do this if you are angry. If you cannot remain calm, you will not be ready to listen.
Sources_
Idealist Pragmatist: When an apology is not an apology
AskMen.com:Make A Sincere Apology
How to Apologize to Someone Important to You by eHow.com :D o not qualify your apology
###
He is the only hope offered to us.

I can say I'm glad not to be you, and that is not a sin.
And likewise, I'm sure your glad not to be me.

A sin is a sin, it is breaking the Commandments of God.
We do not create sin without breaking the simple Commandments.

Apologists do not sin, by making an apology narrow.
Nor by rebutting the apology. Life goes on.

Bro Tim

Quote
Share

Tim
Tim

November 20th, 2011, 4:59 pm #4

Excellent summary of articles and ideas.

I know I wasn't taught how to apologize and I've had to go through lots of trial and error to figure it out what works for me apologizing to others. I believe that an apology requires 3 parts.

1) Acknowledgement of being responsible for doing something wrong or hurting someone.
2) Expressing sincere remorse, regret, and/or sorry over the damage done.
3) A sincere offer to rectify the situation and put measures in place to help prevent the same mistake.

On the Internet, and discussion forums in particular, I think it's fair to say that very few apologies meet this simple criteria; which makes it hard to see them as sincere apologies, unfortunately.

I blame cell phones!
1) Acknowledgement of being responsible for doing something wrong or hurting someone.
2) Expressing sincere remorse, regret, and/or sorry over the damage done.
3) A sincere offer to rectify the situation and put measures in place to help prevent the same mistake.
-------------------------------------

I think your right noob. But #1 "hurting someone"
Delivering emotional pain may have a good purpose. Teaching you dog or others to not crap on the carpet.

Yet apology is admitting to doing wrong. Be it to the Commandments of God and to others.

Pondering....
Bro Tim
Quote
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

November 20th, 2011, 5:32 pm #5


Intentionally causing someone emotional pain, or feeling good when another is suffering emotional pain (intentionally inflicted or not), are never good things. Seems that these are things that are candiates for unconditional apologies.

Helping someone understand the consequences of their actions and behaviors, and showing them alternatives that are better, are noble intentions. If successful, there will be no need to apologize for any "growing pains". If unsuccessful, it is likely that some "boundary" was crossed and/or a person was not given the respect that they deserve; in this case, a sincere apology is probably in order.

That's how I see the world anyway... ymmv.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

November 20th, 2011, 6:01 pm #6

He is the only hope offered to us.

I can say I'm glad not to be you, and that is not a sin.
And likewise, I'm sure your glad not to be me.

A sin is a sin, it is breaking the Commandments of God.
We do not create sin without breaking the simple Commandments.

Apologists do not sin, by making an apology narrow.
Nor by rebutting the apology. Life goes on.

Bro Tim
So there!

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

November 20th, 2011, 6:02 pm #7

Excellent summary of articles and ideas.

I know I wasn't taught how to apologize and I've had to go through lots of trial and error to figure it out what works for me apologizing to others. I believe that an apology requires 3 parts.

1) Acknowledgement of being responsible for doing something wrong or hurting someone.
2) Expressing sincere remorse, regret, and/or sorry over the damage done.
3) A sincere offer to rectify the situation and put measures in place to help prevent the same mistake.

On the Internet, and discussion forums in particular, I think it's fair to say that very few apologies meet this simple criteria; which makes it hard to see them as sincere apologies, unfortunately.

I blame cell phones!
It is a skill, but also something that should never be faked. So there is a proper way to apologize, proper timing, as well -- that sincerity thing. There is a judgment going on which is hard to get around sometimes.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

November 20th, 2011, 6:03 pm #8

1) Acknowledgement of being responsible for doing something wrong or hurting someone.
2) Expressing sincere remorse, regret, and/or sorry over the damage done.
3) A sincere offer to rectify the situation and put measures in place to help prevent the same mistake.
-------------------------------------

I think your right noob. But #1 "hurting someone"
Delivering emotional pain may have a good purpose. Teaching you dog or others to not crap on the carpet.

Yet apology is admitting to doing wrong. Be it to the Commandments of God and to others.

Pondering....
Bro Tim
I believe humans work the same.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

November 20th, 2011, 6:22 pm #9

It is a skill, but also something that should never be faked. So there is a proper way to apologize, proper timing, as well -- that sincerity thing. There is a judgment going on which is hard to get around sometimes.
Sucks to be you, I guess.

bwahahahahahahaha! cough

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 8th, 2007, 6:53 am

November 20th, 2011, 10:35 pm #10

Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology
~Dr Ko Ko Gyi

If you do not want to give a sincere apology, do not try to give a fake apology laced with excuses. Do not rub salt into the wound with a qualified apology.

And do not try to cheat by just apologizing without a real remorse to avoid the consequences or to please the aggrieved party. But if you easily insult or repeatedly commit that sin again and again, even God has declared that He is not willing to pardon the repeat sinners who never repent.

Many years ago, when I read about the news of a court case in Singapore, when the presiding judge refused to accept the guilty plea and apology of the accused and ordered a trial, I could not understand immediately. But later only, I realized that in that case the accused pleaded guilty and apologized but with an excuse as if he was justifying what he did and the apology was also qualified.

It is like saying, "I am sorry for punching you but you have started the quarrel with an insult." That kind of apology is not an apology.

In order to qualify as an apology, and in layman's terms, we can say that it requires two parts:
regret (the "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" part), and
responsibility (some explicit statement that you were the one who did the thing that's being apologized for).
The conditions which will disqualify a statement as an apology if the above conditions are not also met_
e.g. if you don't actually regret the thing you're apologizing for,
and are only saying in order to just pleased the other party or recipient.
"I'm sorry that you're upset about me sending emails to all the friends telling my side of views in our dispute".

Although this statement _
Fulfils the regret criterion,
This could not satisfy the responsibility criterion, since the apologizer is expressing regret not for his action, but for someone else's emotion.
"I'm sorry if I I have actually talk bad about you to the boss"

The responsibility criterion is similarly missing here, since the apologizing person is expressing regret only if a condition is true, but weaselling out of any admission that it is true. The effect of statements like these, if used skilfully, is to make recipients feel as if they should feel apologized to, despite the fact that no actual apology ever took place. They're not apologies, but rhetorical tricks for weaseling out of taking actual responsibility.

If we look from the side of the apologizing party it is a double loss_
after humbling yourself enough to apologize
and your apology is rejected because it wasn't perceived as sincere.
Equally frustrating, is the fact that, more often than not, this perception is accurate.
So, take responsibility for your actions because people want to see you own up your mistakes. One must be accountable and admits to precisely what ones did wrong.

It must be an expression of repentance, of true regret or remorse, this step matters most for a sincere apology.
"I'm sorry that I have used harsh words on you."
"I'm sorry I said those things about you."
That should be it. Do not add the feelings you think you incited in the other person ("I'm sorry you misunderstood me" or "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt"); doing so shifts blame away from you, which is the opposite of taking responsibility for your actions.

Acknowledge the repercussions if your actions had resulted in some nasty repercussions.
"I'm sorry I blew off our meeting; now the entire project is in jeopardy."
"I'm sorry I said those things about your mother. They were uncalled for and I should never have let my anger get the better of me."
Don't add any qualifying clauses; they often begin with "if" ("I'm sorry if you got offended") or "but" ("Sorry about losing my temper, but sometimes you piss me off"). Doing so entirely negates your efforts.
It is better to reveal what you're going to do to correct the situation. Made a sincere apology by adding:

"I'm sorry I blew off our meeting; now the entire project is in jeopardy. I'll call the others to appeal for another meeting time."
Asking for the forgiveness is good. But do it without putting a time frame on it. Don't insist on an answer ("Do you forgive me?"). So it is better to tell like this:
"I'm sorry I said those things about your mother. They were uncalled for and I should never have let my anger get the better of me. I hope that you'll forgive me."
You need to Shut up and let the apologizing process end without further conversations.
Continuing to talk only waters down everything that's already been said.
If we try to squeeze in the last word to save face by mitigating our mistake.
We could unintentionally torpedo the whole apology.

e.g.: "But you know, you're not completely blameless in this whole thing"
or "C'mon, cut me some slack; everybody makes mistakes.
Even you have to admit - your mom can be a bitch."
We must learn to resist the urge to qualify your sincere apology ,
so it is best to shut up,
don't say another word,
and allow the matter end.
Things you'll need:
Understanding that no matter your intention, you did hurt them.
A lot of courage.
A little bit of time to apologize.
Tips & Warnings
Be sincere.
Be calm.
Be ready to accept criticism. While it can be humbling, you must be willing to accept how your actions made this person feel.
Be humble and understanding. You must not allow yourself to become defensive.
Be ready to let the person walk away if they must. Hopefully they will come back when they are ready, but that is not always possible.
This is a first step. Hopefully it starts you down a path to better relationship. If it isn't, at least you have done your best.
Do not qualify your apology. When we hear apologies like "I am sorry you took it that way." or "I am sorry if you are offended", that person is telling you that it is your fault they made a mistake.
Do not do this if you are angry. If you cannot remain calm, you will not be ready to listen.
Sources_
Idealist Pragmatist: When an apology is not an apology
AskMen.com:Make A Sincere Apology
How to Apologize to Someone Important to You by eHow.com :D o not qualify your apology
###
give unconditional apologies. just sayin
Quote
Like
Share