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QUITTNER
QUITTNER

July 5th, 2010, 8:33 pm #1

Only applicants for membership had to repent
June 22 2010 at 4:48 PM QUITTNER (no login)
Response to And The Fake Pope, Mondo, JB, Yvonne, Lox, Vince, As Well As All Others
It wasn't a choice of heaven or hell, but a choice of whether to apply for membership of the community, the artificial "family" called "The Kingdom of God". Applicants for membership had to meet a number of preconditions/requirements, including the repentance/regret of past sins.
..... As I keep repeating, the only Christianity that was authorized was the one by Jesus; many other unauthorized so-called "Christianities" were invented after Jesus had been crucified and all those, together with their supporting literature, should be ignored.
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And, the only "christianity" endorsed by Jesus...
June 23 2010 at 5:19 PM Pope Reverend I, BV (Login PRev1) Sufi
Response to Only applicants for membership had to repent
Was Judaism... As practiced by the Sect of the Essenes. -PRev1-
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There was much more to what Jesus wanted!
July 5 2010 at 4:23 PM QUITTNER (no login)
Response to And, the only "christianity" endorsed by Jesus...
The establishing of those artificial "families" (now called churches, but they do NOT follow Jesus' lifestyle in 2010) for fully qualified desperate losers who couldn't make it in "the world", a communal lifestyle similar to what all of us had while we were children: We all were looked after, got what we needed, all without having to pay for it. We didn't need any money.
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

July 5th, 2010, 9:20 pm #2

Was, in fact...
-- The established lifestyle of the Essenes.

Jesus was a Jew.
Jesus practiced the religion of Judaism.
And...
The Judaism Jesus endorsed was...
The Judaism practiced by...
-- The Sect of the Essenes.

-PRev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

July 6th, 2010, 2:27 am #3

Communism!!

No, read Atlas Shrugged. That's what the Christians were really like. In fact, Atlas Shrugged is inspired!

..

And really, Ayn Rand informs the morals and ethics of the Right Wing Conservative Christian far far more than Christ.

Yeah, the Virtue of Selfishness over the Beatitudes.

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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

July 6th, 2010, 2:49 am #4

Jesus was a Communist...
And Right Wing Conservative "Christians"...
-- Are Anti-Christ Blasphemers.

-Prev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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Striver
Striver

July 6th, 2010, 3:49 am #5

Was, in fact...
-- The established lifestyle of the Essenes.

Jesus was a Jew.
Jesus practiced the religion of Judaism.
And...
The Judaism Jesus endorsed was...
The Judaism practiced by...
-- The Sect of the Essenes.

-PRev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
I expect it to be eliminated from the Bible any day now.. What will be eliminated? Proverbs 6:6, that's what! The scripture in which God the Father, the main man "up there" says not to emulate the ant makes one a sluggard. An ant works, not for its own welfare, but for the welfare of the Collective. An ant is a socialist, a commune-ist!

The American Capitalistic Christian religion of greed simply cannot exist as long as God says in Proverbs 6:6: exists. Oh, they can, and no doubt will. But they exist as the biggest phonies on the planet. They'll eliminate it or find some way to make their religion of profit OK.

God says:

"Go to the ant, thou sluggard, see her ways and be wise."

The American Capitalistic Christian religion of profit says:

"The hell you say."

Can you visualise a Christianity, from the Vatican to the Appalachian snake handlers, embracing Proverbs 6:6? Neither can I.

What can be any more commune-istic and socialistic than an ant hill?

Although he never made a move (other than to help the poor afford health insurance), towards socialism, Fundamentalist Christians allowed themselves to be lied to regarding Obama's being a socialist. They allowed/allow themselves to be whipped into a murderous fury approaching the insane over Obama's PERCEIVED socialistic leanings.

And had their perceptions been correct, all Obama would have been doing is obeying God the Father who art in heaven.

Fundamentalists despise Liberals over Liberals leanings toward socialism. If it is true that the Bible is God's inerrantly inspired word, Liberals are far more God-like than Conservatives who fight Proverbs 6:6 with every ounce of their being.

I guess Fundamentalists don't mind being sluggards.
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QUITTNER
QUITTNER

July 6th, 2010, 8:57 pm #6

Only applicants for membership had to repent
June 22 2010 at 4:48 PM QUITTNER (no login)
Response to And The Fake Pope, Mondo, JB, Yvonne, Lox, Vince, As Well As All Others
It wasn't a choice of heaven or hell, but a choice of whether to apply for membership of the community, the artificial "family" called "The Kingdom of God". Applicants for membership had to meet a number of preconditions/requirements, including the repentance/regret of past sins.
..... As I keep repeating, the only Christianity that was authorized was the one by Jesus; many other unauthorized so-called "Christianities" were invented after Jesus had been crucified and all those, together with their supporting literature, should be ignored.
---------------------------------------------------------
And, the only "christianity" endorsed by Jesus...
June 23 2010 at 5:19 PM Pope Reverend I, BV (Login PRev1) Sufi
Response to Only applicants for membership had to repent
Was Judaism... As practiced by the Sect of the Essenes. -PRev1-
---------------------------------------------------------
There was much more to what Jesus wanted!
July 5 2010 at 4:23 PM QUITTNER (no login)
Response to And, the only "christianity" endorsed by Jesus...
The establishing of those artificial "families" (now called churches, but they do NOT follow Jesus' lifestyle in 2010) for fully qualified desperate losers who couldn't make it in "the world", a communal lifestyle similar to what all of us had while we were children: We all were looked after, got what we needed, all without having to pay for it. We didn't need any money.
Thanks for your responses. I did read Philo's description some years ago of what the Essenes did in his time, but I did not know that that was (exactly?) as what it says/describes in Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 4:32-37.
..... And as for Communism, I don't think that there was any similarity; as I understand it, Communism rejected (and still does?) the clerics and their teachings, then good friends of the (very rich?) Capitalists, and therefore the enemies of the downtrodden and fully exploited unfortunate employees. As I understand it, Communists want to make changes, using a lot of violence to get results. Jesus would never accept into churches Communists as members.
..... In 2010 all churches were supposed to be, but aren't, like the communal systems as outlined by Jesus and Acts that I have quoted.
..... Then there was the possibility for deserving losers who couldn't make it in "the world" to get to be, if fully qualified, first baptized, and then members of these "churches", all branches of "The Kingdom of God" with vows of obedience, poverty (they were called "born again children" and "the poor" by outsiders because individual members needed no money), and perhaps also chastity (the definition may have been changed since then). As I see it, Jesus never intended to start a new religion, but many so-called unauthorized "Christianities" were invented after the Romans had crucified Jesus. All members of the churches had to be GOOD people - no others could get in, and all were poor after having giving all of their property to the community as a whole. As it was quoted, it was as impossible for a (still) rich person to get to be a member as it is for a camel to pass through a small hole.
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

July 6th, 2010, 10:18 pm #7

You might want to add to the description given by Philo...
By reading the description given by Josephus...
As well as the descriptions provided by...
The Sectarian Writings, found among...
-- The Dead Sea Scrolls.

As for the definition of Communism...
You might also want to read Marx's, "Communist Manifesto".
While keeping in mind that...
The "modern" definition belongs to a Political Movement...
And is 2000 years removed from the Essene Sectarian model...
-- Which was built upon the Religious Foundation of... Judaism.

Still...
Essene Judaism was a Communal Society...
-- With all things being shared.
And Jesus...
-- Was an advocate of Essene Judaism.

After the sacking of Jerusalem, by the Romans, in 70 AD...
The Jewish followers of Jesus...
-- Messianic Jews of the Essene persuasion...
Moved to Alexandria and Leontopolis, in Egypt.

The "christianity" we see today...
Is based upon the Gentile (i.e. "Pagan") Paulinian perversion...
-- Which had based itself, primarily... in Rome.

The original Jewish version of Christianity...
-- The Essene Version...
Was declared to be a Heresy...
-- By the Leaders of the Gentile Church, in Rome...
And followers of that philosophy...
Were, subsequently, hunted down...
And, either forced to "convert"...
Or... Be Executed.

Their writings were, summarily, gathered up...
-- And burned.

The Dead Sea Scrolls reveal that the Essenes called themselves...
-- Followers of the Way...
-- The Perfect of the Way
-- The Poor...
-- The Elect
-- The Holy or The Saints...
-- Keepers of the Covenant...
-- The New Covenanters...
-- The Remnant of Israel
-- Sons of Zaddik (Zadok/Righteousness)...
And...
-- Children of the Light.

All of which are also associated with...
-- New Testament (i.e. "New Covenant") "Christians".

-PRev1-
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QUITTNER
QUITTNER

July 7th, 2010, 7:42 pm #8

Pope, I read only the early translations of the Qumran group's scrolls, but I was not aware at that time of any similarity between the Essenes, the Jesus group, and the Qumran group. But I was impressed by the two rules of discipline in the Qumran scrolls, and I was comparing their discipline rules with the discipline rules, if any, and their enforcement, of today's various churches. Did they have a similar problem as the Catholic Church, for example, has been having recently? Apparently not! The "universal" Church apparently takes in anyone as a member, even very many, still without sin, babies, but probably neither the Essenes nor the Qumran group did that.
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

July 7th, 2010, 10:21 pm #9

You will note in the NT Epistles of Paul...
There is a distinct and constant friction...
-- Between him and the "Assembly at Jerusalem".

According to the Messianic Jews of Jerusalem...
-- The Essenes/"Qumran Group"...
Proselytes who wanted to become FULL Members of the Sect...
With the Privilege of Partaking in Communal Benefits...
-- HAD to Convert TO... Judaism.

According to them...
Paul wasn't fit to preach to Jews.
And...
-- They gave him no letters of introduction.

Of course, Paul, the Ultimate Salesman...
Quickly spun these negative values...
Into Positive Talking Points...
You see, said Paul...
It wasn't that he was "unfit to preach to Jews"...
But rather...
-- He was the "Apostle to the Gentiles"...
And...
He didn't NEED any "letters of introduction" from mere MEN...
Because...
-- He got HIS "Ordination" directly from GOD...!

But, the friction between the two groups...
And the underlying theme of Paul's constant defense...
Against "some" who would call him a "liar"...
Are clearly evident in the body of Paul's writings.

As for the similarities between the Essenes and the Early Christians...
Eusibius said that, from Philo's description of them...
It should be Obvious that...
-- The Essenes Were the FIRST Christians.

And, on the morning of September 11, 2001...
-- Yes, THAT "September 11"...
There was a small article in the papers...
Which, due to other events of that day...
-- Has never really been brought to light.
<blockquote> Vatican scholars prepare to rewrite the Bible Rory Carroll in Rome
The Guardian
Tuesday 11 September 2001 11.06 BST

Vatican scholars are preparing to rewrite the Bible by incorporating revelations contained in ancient scrolls discovered beside the Dead Sea in Palestine, it emerged yesterday.

A team of theologians and historians will gather in Italy later this month to start the potentially explosive task of inserting new details about the life and times of Jesus Christ.

The influence of radical Jewish groups who wanted to overthrow Roman rule is likely to feature in the new Bible, bolstering those who interpret Christ as a revolutionary who fought political oppression.

The Bible is based mostly on manuscripts written centuries after Christ lived, but the so-called Dead Sea scrolls, found at Qumran by shepherds in 1947, have been dated to the decades before and after his crucifixion.

The 800 documents, written by the Essenes, a Jewish sect, date from 170 BC to AD 68, and chronicle the turbulence of the Roman occupation of Judea.

Gianluigi Boschi, a Dominican priest and Vatican biblical scholar, told yesterday's La Stampa, a Turin daily newspaper, that an international commission of scholars had been given the green light to update the Bible by culling material from the scrolls.

The initiative will be officially announced at a conference at the University of Modena on September 26. The team is expected to include Etienne Nodet, author of the The Origins of Christianity; Paolo Garuti, a biblical scholar; and Garcia Martinez, president of the international movement for Qumranic studies.

Martyn Percy, a canon doctor at Sheffield university, welcomed the initiative but suggested the results may be less than dramatic. "There has never been a settled, definitive version of the Bible, it has been an evolving book which has gone through many translations. Only fundamentalists think it came in a fax from heaven."

The similarities between the Essenes and the Early Christians...
Are much more than merely superficial.

And...
Earlier releases of Dead Sea Scroll materials...
-- Under the control of the Vatican...
Were severely lacking.

-PRev1-
</blockquote>

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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QUITTNER
QUITTNER

July 8th, 2010, 5:59 pm #10

Thanks, pope, for posting this. As I remember it, after the Qumran scrolls were uncovered they were, in part(?) held back by biased scholars, and I haven't yet seen any of the contents of those that tie the Essenes to the gospel stories.
Have you read any of Hyam Maccoby's books (from the Jewish point of view)?
Jesus and the Jewish resistance
Revolution in Judaea
The mythmaker: Paul and the invention of Christianity
Paul and Hellenism
Jesus the Pharisee (2003)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyam_Maccoby
..... It seems to me, based on what I have read, that the Jerusalem church accepted Paul's offer to try to get as much money as possible out of non-Jews as the ambassador (="apostle") of the Jerusalem church, but that later Paul decided to branch out on his own, no longer delivering any money to the Jerusalem church, and invented the "universal" (Catholic means universal) churches similarly as somebody invented Esperanto as "universal" language, composed out of bits and pieces of existing ones.
..... By the way, there are other pressures on my time - do not expect from me at times any fast responses.

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