011 - Science Examines Creationism

011 - Science Examines Creationism

JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

July 15th, 2011, 2:36 pm #1


 

Is Creationism Scientific?

<font size="1">Apologetic creationists make the claim that the order and timing of the events described in Genesis are scientifically accurate, and thus could only be the result of divine knowledge (notwithstanding the fact that a proper argument requires at least two premises and a conclusion to be valid).

Are the apologetic creationists right? Is Genesis accurate in the order and timing of the events it describes in the creation accounts? Is Genesis a historical narrative that accurately describes the appearence of life?

Even a cursory examination shows it is not.
To see how so, let's go through the creation accounts verse by verse.......
</font>
<img border="0" alt="" src="http://images.bravenet.com/common/image ... nshine.gif">

No matter the nature of the proposition, if it is explicitly posed as a truth statement, then what it necessarily infers and implies must and should be true as well. If not, then there's something amiss with the explicitly posed.

~oOo~
 
<div> </div><div>Genesis 1:24 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so." </div><div>
Genesis 1:25 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Uh huh.

 

The Genesis account here places the creation of "creeping things" at the same time as the creation of mammals and "cattle". The phrase "creeping things" usually refers to insects, spiders, reptiles, amphibians and other "creepy-crawlies".

According to Genesis, these things all appeared after grasses, fruit trees, whales and birds had already appeared. And Genesis is scientifically wrong.

All of these groups appeared several hundred millions of years before mammals did and all of them first appeared in the ocean, not on land, except for whales, of course, which appeared much later.



The reference to the creation of "cattle" is also incorrect, since cattle are a domestic animal that were produced by ancient pastoral societies. They are not a species in itself. The ancient Hebrews, knowing nothing of archaeology and the likes, got this wrong as well.

SEC 001 --> 010
</div>
 

To be continued


Brought to you by:

<img alt="punchandjudynews.jpg" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... dynews.jpg">


rejected and denied by many, accepted and embraced by few : incontrovertibility
- it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
as the maxim demands; truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true
everything else ... mere BS -


New!! Improved!! Now With CD-Formula!!


CD: short for inevitability
Quote
Like
Share

Tim
Tim

July 15th, 2011, 11:13 pm #2

Simple example? My dog can not live without human intervention, because he MUST have hair cuts, or he would be dead in 5 months without human intervention. And there's no way he could possibly live 1 year. That's a simple fact.

Prancer (my dog) is a Peekapoo.
You probably assume Poodles and Pekingese are descendants of wolves right?..
So how many wolves have hair that grows forever and never shed? Non.

So were dogs created as they are, or specially bread from wolves to human desired design?

I want you to actually think JVH scientifically. Did they bread a sheep with a wolf?.. And work on the DNA mutation from there?

If you think outside the bubble of evolution don't you suppose things were created after there own seed and kind?.. And perpetually keep breading and baring after there own seed and kind?

The fact is JVH, they don't know where these "Natural Dog Breeds" even come from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_breed
The term dog breed is also used to refer to natural breeds or landraces, which arose through time in response to a particular environment which included humans, with little or no selective breeding by humans.[2] Such breeds are undocumented, and are identified by their appearance and often by a style of working. Ancient dog breeds are some of the modern (documented) descendants of such natural breeds.

We do know JVH, many of these "Natural Dog Breeds" cannot live without humans taking care of them. In other words, some of these creatures were created after mankind was created.

No wolf has hair that grows forever without shedding.

And if Nature designed the "Natural Dog Breeds" then there must be a
intelligent designer behind Nature.

I know you can give me one of your little bubble answers JVH and blow this off, anyone can. But how about an intelligent answer.

Evolution is theory, Creation is science with intelligent design.

Tim

Quote
Share

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

July 16th, 2011, 2:10 am #3

Cheetahs are very strange creatures. The caterpillar/cocoon/butterfly metamorphosis is hard to explain. Many examples defy "logic". Yet we do see evolution occurring on some scales.

It baffles me how species evolved and gender and reproduction. But I also know that everything wasn't just created "as is".

I don't see an alternative to evolution. Evolution is the best explanation we have as of yet, from science. Although I do not believe in the Darwinian philosophy -- I see evolution as directed, or perhaps programmed to some degree.

Quote
Like
Share

Iceman
Iceman

July 16th, 2011, 4:20 am #4

Simple example? My dog can not live without human intervention, because he MUST have hair cuts, or he would be dead in 5 months without human intervention. And there's no way he could possibly live 1 year. That's a simple fact.

Prancer (my dog) is a Peekapoo.
You probably assume Poodles and Pekingese are descendants of wolves right?..
So how many wolves have hair that grows forever and never shed? Non.

So were dogs created as they are, or specially bread from wolves to human desired design?

I want you to actually think JVH scientifically. Did they bread a sheep with a wolf?.. And work on the DNA mutation from there?

If you think outside the bubble of evolution don't you suppose things were created after there own seed and kind?.. And perpetually keep breading and baring after there own seed and kind?

The fact is JVH, they don't know where these "Natural Dog Breeds" even come from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_breed
The term dog breed is also used to refer to natural breeds or landraces, which arose through time in response to a particular environment which included humans, with little or no selective breeding by humans.[2] Such breeds are undocumented, and are identified by their appearance and often by a style of working. Ancient dog breeds are some of the modern (documented) descendants of such natural breeds.

We do know JVH, many of these "Natural Dog Breeds" cannot live without humans taking care of them. In other words, some of these creatures were created after mankind was created.

No wolf has hair that grows forever without shedding.

And if Nature designed the "Natural Dog Breeds" then there must be a
intelligent designer behind Nature.

I know you can give me one of your little bubble answers JVH and blow this off, anyone can. But how about an intelligent answer.

Evolution is theory, Creation is science with intelligent design.

Tim
Dogs and wolves are not related. They have been bred together - particularly by the Iniut eskimos in order to achieve an animal that could survive extreme cold. They were and are large and strong enough to pull heavy loads. Only those animals showing the stronger dog strain were kept. Some of these special breeds are still used in Alaska for the Iditirod race.

Some breeds of dogs are nothing more than hybreds conjured up by mankind using evolution as a basis to do so. Natural long haired dogs came from northern climates. The pekineese was a northern china/mongolian breed. But I'm sure they have been improved upon to achieve features desired by people. The Beagle, a original dog of europe (France) has been interbred with other hounds to achieve the european foxhound and the american foxhound that are different in size and performance.

Then we have domesticated livestock like cattle, goats and sheep. All a product of using principles of evolution to attain specific features and functions - lastly the mule, but it cannot reproduce. However, if the mules purpose had not become obsolete I'm sure science would have found a way to get around the inability of mules to reproduce. Some might say that cross breeding animals to achieve certain features is not evolution. But the fact is it is just a speeded up form. And long haired anumals do survive in warm climates as well as short haired animals survive in cold climates. Unless it is a excessive extreme they adapt and very quickly - for instance polar bears in zoos. Just looking at human kind in the progress of evolution we have changed in size, features, colors, and performance. And we are still evolveing. (Although our performance at times is more animal)

Lastly: Evolution is a scientific fact. There are a few aspects of evolution that remain as theory (unproven), but the basic concept that Darwin laid down has been proven over and over. It is constantly replicable.

Nothing in the idea of creation has been proven: NOTHING. It is irreplicable and there are virtually no facts to endorse the idea of creation in any way. The Bible version is really a poorly conceived fantasey - even if conjured up by a ancient goat herder. Very poorly contrived at least when compared to the creation myths of North American indiginous peoples. The Bible version simply lacks imagination. World wide: there are hundreds of creation myths. They make great reading.
Quote
Share

Tim
Tim

July 16th, 2011, 4:39 am #5

Cheetahs are very strange creatures. The caterpillar/cocoon/butterfly metamorphosis is hard to explain. Many examples defy "logic". Yet we do see evolution occurring on some scales.

It baffles me how species evolved and gender and reproduction. But I also know that everything wasn't just created "as is".

I don't see an alternative to evolution. Evolution is the best explanation we have as of yet, from science. Although I do not believe in the Darwinian philosophy -- I see evolution as directed, or perhaps programmed to some degree.
It baffles me how species evolved and gender and reproduction. But I also know that everything wasn't just created "as is".

I don't see an alternative to evolution. Evolution is the best explanation we have as of yet, from science. Although I do not believe in the Darwinian philosophy -- I see evolution as directed, or perhaps programmed to some degree.
----------------------------------------------------

I applaud your observation Mondo.

"Evolution is the best explanation we have as of yet, from science"

Or is it that our understanding of science keeps changing/evolving and we realize more and more how complex the created things are?

After all, perception is in the eye of the beholder. And we know our perception keeps changing/advancing as time goes on.

What color is yellow in a room void of light? Black. Yet today we realize white light contains all the colors within itself, and we simply see the chemical reflectance of that stream of light appearing as yellow.

Did evolution actually happen, or are we realizing monkeys don't turn into cows, but that the creative force that is everywhere all the time made everything as it is?.. And many things have been extinct.

We do do know matter is created from energy, that's just scientific fact today.

Are we beginning to understand creation for what it is?
Like color and light for what it is?

Or should we abandon science, and accept some monkey turned into to humans, and therefor today some humans have monkeys for pets?

Oh Oh Oh I want to be like you Oh Oh....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOcyYyxqN_g


Tim

Quote
Share

Tim
Tim

July 16th, 2011, 5:02 am #6

Dogs and wolves are not related. They have been bred together - particularly by the Iniut eskimos in order to achieve an animal that could survive extreme cold. They were and are large and strong enough to pull heavy loads. Only those animals showing the stronger dog strain were kept. Some of these special breeds are still used in Alaska for the Iditirod race.

Some breeds of dogs are nothing more than hybreds conjured up by mankind using evolution as a basis to do so. Natural long haired dogs came from northern climates. The pekineese was a northern china/mongolian breed. But I'm sure they have been improved upon to achieve features desired by people. The Beagle, a original dog of europe (France) has been interbred with other hounds to achieve the european foxhound and the american foxhound that are different in size and performance.

Then we have domesticated livestock like cattle, goats and sheep. All a product of using principles of evolution to attain specific features and functions - lastly the mule, but it cannot reproduce. However, if the mules purpose had not become obsolete I'm sure science would have found a way to get around the inability of mules to reproduce. Some might say that cross breeding animals to achieve certain features is not evolution. But the fact is it is just a speeded up form. And long haired anumals do survive in warm climates as well as short haired animals survive in cold climates. Unless it is a excessive extreme they adapt and very quickly - for instance polar bears in zoos. Just looking at human kind in the progress of evolution we have changed in size, features, colors, and performance. And we are still evolveing. (Although our performance at times is more animal)

Lastly: Evolution is a scientific fact. There are a few aspects of evolution that remain as theory (unproven), but the basic concept that Darwin laid down has been proven over and over. It is constantly replicable.

Nothing in the idea of creation has been proven: NOTHING. It is irreplicable and there are virtually no facts to endorse the idea of creation in any way. The Bible version is really a poorly conceived fantasey - even if conjured up by a ancient goat herder. Very poorly contrived at least when compared to the creation myths of North American indiginous peoples. The Bible version simply lacks imagination. World wide: there are hundreds of creation myths. They make great reading.
Your too stubborn to reason with on this issue.
You know much but you don't know it all, so stop acting like you do.

Remove yourself from worrier to research and development.

May wife is Swedish, our DNA is not compatible for children.

And your an African man, yet there is no African DNA in my DNA nor my wife's DNA.

Who did the "big bang" (THEORY) create so many types of humans?

You could honestly say Iceman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJGckMYO4

Tim

Quote
Share

Seoc Colla
Seoc Colla

July 16th, 2011, 10:04 am #7

Simple example? My dog can not live without human intervention, because he MUST have hair cuts, or he would be dead in 5 months without human intervention. And there's no way he could possibly live 1 year. That's a simple fact.

Prancer (my dog) is a Peekapoo.
You probably assume Poodles and Pekingese are descendants of wolves right?..
So how many wolves have hair that grows forever and never shed? Non.

So were dogs created as they are, or specially bread from wolves to human desired design?

I want you to actually think JVH scientifically. Did they bread a sheep with a wolf?.. And work on the DNA mutation from there?

If you think outside the bubble of evolution don't you suppose things were created after there own seed and kind?.. And perpetually keep breading and baring after there own seed and kind?

The fact is JVH, they don't know where these "Natural Dog Breeds" even come from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_breed
The term dog breed is also used to refer to natural breeds or landraces, which arose through time in response to a particular environment which included humans, with little or no selective breeding by humans.[2] Such breeds are undocumented, and are identified by their appearance and often by a style of working. Ancient dog breeds are some of the modern (documented) descendants of such natural breeds.

We do know JVH, many of these "Natural Dog Breeds" cannot live without humans taking care of them. In other words, some of these creatures were created after mankind was created.

No wolf has hair that grows forever without shedding.

And if Nature designed the "Natural Dog Breeds" then there must be a
intelligent designer behind Nature.

I know you can give me one of your little bubble answers JVH and blow this off, anyone can. But how about an intelligent answer.

Evolution is theory, Creation is science with intelligent design.

Tim
Many of the problems being faced today is because of 'human intervention' believing it can 'improve' on natural processes.

They move animals and plants in trying to recreate the conditions of the place they emmigrated in escape from.
The examples of the Red Fox or the honeybee should suffice.

And then miss the delicious irony in the process.

There is a natural intelligence and it is freely available, but it has no interest in making humanity, rich, powerful, wonderful or famous and so it is completely disregarded.

Which is why we 'need' so much expensive things like medicines, hospitals, elaborate buildings and all the stuff that is to be expensively found in must-have-now shopping malls and so on. We are better off in many material ways, of course, but contriving wars to murder our brother man in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan because a corridor for oil transportation could come that way, is not co-operating with the natural intelligence and must have is eventual effect.

We are constantly assured though, that there IS intelligent Life on Earth - but maybe not all that intelligent?
Quote
Share

Seoc Colla
Seoc Colla

July 16th, 2011, 10:24 am #8

Your too stubborn to reason with on this issue.
You know much but you don't know it all, so stop acting like you do.

Remove yourself from worrier to research and development.

May wife is Swedish, our DNA is not compatible for children.

And your an African man, yet there is no African DNA in my DNA nor my wife's DNA.

Who did the "big bang" (THEORY) create so many types of humans?

You could honestly say Iceman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJGckMYO4

Tim
.....on thse who might hold a different view just diminish your own argument.
There is much that is known now, many problems identified, understood and solved, that had humanity just listened to religion we would still be chanting inanities and sprinkling 'holy' water beneath lighted candles - while pleading with someone who is not there to help us sort out our own mess.

A personal view that Darwin did a great job in observing and drawing conclusions in trying to find explanations (which is what science does) for the apparent anomalies that meet the eye.
He assumed that the basis of all Life is physical and worked accordingly. He provided a step up for human understanding - he never claimed anything, in any case.

It is gradually becoming apparent that Life is Spiritual in essence and may even have a deeper basis if quantuum studies continue as they are doing.

So, if the foundation of Life is not known or understood, how can conclusions based on it be sound?
We could, of course, just plead with Jesus for enlightenment.
Quote
Share

Iceman
Iceman

July 16th, 2011, 3:18 pm #9

Your too stubborn to reason with on this issue.
You know much but you don't know it all, so stop acting like you do.

Remove yourself from worrier to research and development.

May wife is Swedish, our DNA is not compatible for children.

And your an African man, yet there is no African DNA in my DNA nor my wife's DNA.

Who did the "big bang" (THEORY) create so many types of humans?

You could honestly say Iceman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJGckMYO4

Tim
The Big Bang can't be found in a bottle.
Quote
Share

Tim
Tim

July 17th, 2011, 5:20 am #10

Don't take it personal.

Jesus loves you Iceman.


Tim

Quote
Share