002 - Science Examines Creationism

002 - Science Examines Creationism

JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

June 30th, 2011, 5:58 am #1


Is Creationism Scientific?

Apologetic creationists make the claim that the order and timing of the events described in Genesis are scientifically accurate, and thus could only be the result of divine knowledge (notwithstanding the fact that a proper argument requires at least two premises and a conclusion to be valid).

Are the apologetic creationists right? Is Genesis accurate in the order and timing of the events it describes in the creation accounts? Is Genesis a historical narrative that accurately describes the appearence of life?

Even a cursory examination shows it is not.
To see how so, let's go through the creation accounts verse by verse.......

<img border="0" alt="" src="http://images.bravenet.com/common/image ... nshine.gif">

No matter the nature of the proposition, if it is explicitly posed as a truth statement, then what it necessarily infers and implies must and should be true as well. If not, then there's something amiss with the explicitly posed.

~oOo~

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Without form and void eh?


The early universe was not "dark". We know from quantum mechanics that the earliest universe was a sea of quarks, followed shortly after by a sea of free nucleons and photons. Until the era of "decoupling", about 300,000 years after the formation of the universe, the entire universe was as bright throughout as the surface of the sun is today.

The verse also refers to "the face of the waters".

If this verse refers to the waters on earth, such as the ocean, it is scientifically wrong. The early earth had no ocean. It was not until millions of years of accretion had built up the planet that liquid water began to form, both from volcanic outgassing and from the impacts of comets attracted by the gravity of the earth.

Most Biblical scholars believe that the "waters" referred to here are those in heaven, from which rain comes. This interpretation is supported too, by the fact that the Genesis account later describes how these "waters" were divided from those of earth by a wall, with one portion of these divided waters forming the oceans.

However, we know from science that the early universe did not have any water. None at all. Not even any water molecules. In fact, for a period of several hundred thousand years, it did not have any molecules of any sort. The Genesis description of water above the "firmament" is scientifically invalid.


To be continued


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rejected and denied by many, accepted and embraced by few : incontrovertibility
- it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
as the maxim demands; truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true
everything else ... mere BS -


New!! Improved!! Now With CD-Formula!!


CD: short for inevitability
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Tim
Tim

June 30th, 2011, 7:41 am #2

However, we know from science that the early universe did not have any water. None at all. Not even any water molecules. In fact, for a period of several hundred thousand years, it did not have any molecules of any sort. The Genesis description of water above the "firmament" is scientifically invalid.
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Fact is most comets consist of mostly water/ice.
So your science must be wrong.

And sorry for freaking out at at you last weekend, but I was really sick, and didn't know it, until I went to the hospital to find my appendix had burst. Just got home today.

Water and the universe is something science has no clue of.

Are you really doing a study of science here JVH? I think not.
Your disgruntle attitude towards the Bible is your only motive JVH.

Tim


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Joined: September 30th, 2009, 7:55 pm

June 30th, 2011, 2:44 pm #3

Tim said: Fact is most comets consist of mostly water/ice.

You are correct Tim. But that is not what JVH was pointing out. He was pointing out how Genesis is not even remotely scientifically accurate.

The Genesis account says that water was around at the very beginning of the universe. This is incorrect. The ONLY element that was around in the very early universe was hydrogen, and only after several hundred thousands of years when the nuclear forces could form hydrogen atoms from the subatomic particles. No molecules of any sort (water is a molecule made up of 2 atoms of hydrogen, and 1 atom of oxygen)... And before stars, the only atoms that existed were hydrogen atoms (which the gravitational forces coalesced to form stars.

It took the nuclear furnaces inside of stars to create the heavier elements, like oxygen, which is required for water. Hence, heavier elements were not in existence until the first supernovas released them from inside of stars... and that was millions of years after the birth of the universe.

Perhaps if you read more science books instead of Hebrew fables, you might learn a bit about science.

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"Forget Jesus! Stars died so you could be here today." -- Dr. Lawrence Krauss, theoretical physicist
Last edited by edstrange13 on June 30th, 2011, 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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y
y

June 30th, 2011, 2:48 pm #4

we experience the nuclear explosion within our own consciousness

there is NOTHING OUT THERE

it is all within us


reality can only be experienced outside of us

when the first consciousness is taken away

when we FIND OURSELVES IN A PLACE of complete VOID and emptiness, like a nuclear explosion of our mind

we understand GENESIS

it has nothing to do with what we THINK happened outside of us in time
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Joined: September 30th, 2009, 7:55 pm

June 30th, 2011, 2:51 pm #5



-----------------------------------------------
"Forget Jesus! Stars died so you could be here today." -- Dr. Lawrence Krauss, theoretical physicist
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Joined: September 30th, 2009, 7:55 pm

June 30th, 2011, 3:03 pm #6

Tim said: Fact is most comets consist of mostly water/ice.

You are correct Tim. But that is not what JVH was pointing out. He was pointing out how Genesis is not even remotely scientifically accurate.

The Genesis account says that water was around at the very beginning of the universe. This is incorrect. The ONLY element that was around in the very early universe was hydrogen, and only after several hundred thousands of years when the nuclear forces could form hydrogen atoms from the subatomic particles. No molecules of any sort (water is a molecule made up of 2 atoms of hydrogen, and 1 atom of oxygen)... And before stars, the only atoms that existed were hydrogen atoms (which the gravitational forces coalesced to form stars.

It took the nuclear furnaces inside of stars to create the heavier elements, like oxygen, which is required for water. Hence, heavier elements were not in existence until the first supernovas released them from inside of stars... and that was millions of years after the birth of the universe.

Perhaps if you read more science books instead of Hebrew fables, you might learn a bit about science.

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"Forget Jesus! Stars died so you could be here today." -- Dr. Lawrence Krauss, theoretical physicist
No, your imaginary friend didn't "poof" them into existence. Their birth, life, and death is a very natural process.

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"Forget Jesus! Stars died so you could be here today." -- Dr. Lawrence Krauss, theoretical physicist
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y
y

June 30th, 2011, 3:12 pm #7

when the disciples of Jesus saw how others ridiculed him they said, why don't you call this fire down on them (knowing then they would understand)

the fire can't be called down on us by anyone but the FIRE ITSELF, known as the holy Spirit in the Bible:

it is a force so POWERFUL that it demolishes and recreates consciousness


but anyway..........we see the stars out there

but its the MOTHER BOARD we see within us

it only looks like it is outside of us

when the stars fall (like we see Saul fall to earth), it is Israel who are these stars

and the name Israel mean's "straigth line to God" or rule with God.......because now the creation and creator know one another face to face

from the experience WITHIN THEM

where all consciousness is revealed


that is science


but only to someone who has EXPERIENCED PRIMORDIAL existence
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Joined: September 30th, 2009, 7:55 pm

June 30th, 2011, 3:18 pm #8



-----------------------------------------------
"Forget Jesus! Stars died so you could be here today." -- Dr. Lawrence Krauss, theoretical physicist
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Yvonne/Zafana
Yvonne/Zafana

June 30th, 2011, 3:35 pm #9

how little you can comprehend what I say

which is itself evidence that it is OUT OF THIS WORLD


have fun with your insensitive responses

that others like you will think normal to someone like me

so what?
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Joined: September 30th, 2009, 7:55 pm

June 30th, 2011, 3:44 pm #10

I was talking about astrophysics. You attempt to change the subject by talking about religious nonsense gobbledygook. So, I said that that was a change of subject.

When you try to change the subject from astrophysics to religious delusions, and I notice it... it's insensitive?



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"Forget Jesus! Stars died so you could be here today." -- Dr. Lawrence Krauss, theoretical physicist
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