Way forward for England

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Joined: March 27th, 2014, 1:24 pm

December 18th, 2017, 11:29 am #11

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
I would have added Plunkett after Finn's injury. But let's not get too carried away. He would likely be bowling mid 80s in his 2nd spell onwards and would do well to last the series. Appears in his absence he's become a far far superior bowler than he is! Also hurrying a few English countt batsmen isn't the same as doing it to Smith, Warner in their own back yard.
Call for TKC..
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Joined: June 25th, 2015, 11:12 am

December 18th, 2017, 12:56 pm #12

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
We have not had much success with bowlers who are only mid 80s in their FIRST spell so a gamble with someone who can at least bowl with real pace at the start might not have been a bad idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy8zVYSDD2s
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Joined: October 20th, 2013, 8:03 pm

December 18th, 2017, 1:09 pm #13

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
Didn’t we take a group of ‘specialist’ tall bowlers last time? It didn’t do much good.
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Joined: April 4th, 2017, 10:59 am

December 18th, 2017, 3:09 pm #14

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
There was much more Championship cricket in the summer during the 1990s - not only were England very poor, often even at home, but I don't recall there being a huge supply of fast bowlers and international class spinners either. Just as now, there were a few of them.
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Joined: March 27th, 2014, 1:24 pm

December 18th, 2017, 3:22 pm #15

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
Exactly, been getting hammered in Aus for years bar one series. Can't blame recent changes to CC for them!

Gary, i said i would have taken Plunkett, i'm just stating he is now being overrated based on nothing other than the failings of others.
Call for TKC..
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Joined: August 17th, 2016, 11:12 am

December 18th, 2017, 8:07 pm #16

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
I don't have much confidence that Plunkett would remain fit for very long if he was playing Test matches. He seems to pick up a lot of strains just playing One Day cricket. He played 2 first class matches last year I believe, he was injured early in the second innings at Scarborough, the other game became a 2 day game and he only had to bowl in one innings, against Middlesex.

I think was can standby for yet another review of County cricket, Bayliss has already said there's too much cricket played, but the ECB have already committed to adding another T20 tournament from 2020, which formed the basis for the sale of media rights. Are they going to reduce the 4-day schedule even further?
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Joined: September 7th, 2015, 9:28 pm

December 18th, 2017, 9:55 pm #17

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
Fitness is of course an issue for fast bowlers.

Tend to think that the English fast one's Plunkett, Finn, Wood spend a lot of time injured because they put everything they have into their bowling.

While most others perhaps hold back a few Mph and manage their fitness levels better.

Of course early and late season matches in England on damp pitches you will rarely feel really confident of your footing which may also knock off a few more Mph.
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Joined: June 4th, 2015, 6:32 pm

December 19th, 2017, 8:08 am #18

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
So there’s too much county cricket being played leading to players not having energy or fitness to step up to play test matches.

So reduce the number of county matches which means the four day game which takes up most days will suffer. One day cricket will then become the training ground for test matches.... there’s something that doesn’t quite add up here
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Joined: October 20th, 2013, 8:03 pm

December 19th, 2017, 8:18 am #19

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
Too much cricket would sound less unconvincing if the players weren't ready to jump on a plane to anywhere, anytime, at the first whisper of the breeze through a cheque book.
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Joined: April 11th, 2014, 2:11 pm

December 19th, 2017, 9:38 am #20

Once the Ashes are lost, it will be time to look to the future. Although it doesn't seem long since we were thought to be producing better players than the Australians and 'experts' were advocating that they change their first-class system to something closer to ours, the fact is that they have almost always produced a greater number of better, harder players down the years.
First, we need to give first-class cricket back its pre-eminence, playing games in the heart of the season and roll back on the one-day circuses. Crucially, we must take a measure of central control of pitches and make every effort to get some pace and bounce back into them, thus developing bowlers who don't rely on swing and nibble off the seam. And that includes Headingley, however exciting we thought last year's Test was.
It seems to me one of the problems has been not so much players coming through the ranks who are essentially looking to become one day specialists but potentially good first-class players who feel they have to change horses in mid stream so in their early 20s they are desperate to prove their attacking credentials and losing their way in the four-day game. We can point to several, can't we? Talent is being wasted.

The problems go much deeper than reshuffling the pack and sacking the coach.
Only one player in the under-19 world cup one-day squad suggests Yorkshire are failing in that genre too.
I thought the main idea behind central contracts was that the best players were not too tired from playing too much county cricket as the ECB would be in charge of their schedule.

Still believe the biggest problem in the long term for English cricket is less and less people are playing and are interested in cricket.
I really don't know what you do to reverse this.
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