Pre-ww2 Yorkshire Vs post-ww2 Yorkshire

Joined: 21 Aug 2013, 19:47

25 Oct 2017, 10:08 #31

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Are we selecting players based on a typical performance or their very best, even when the very best didn't last for long? For example Paul Jarvis during early 1988, edges into my team as the 3rd seamer, but that would be based on a small window rather than a whole career. The same perhaps could be said of Chris Silverwood and, at a real push, Gav Hamilton. Its also probably the case with Craig White.

Are we selecting on their career with Yorkshire only, if so this impacts on Gough and Vaughan (and obviously Root, JB and to some extent Rashid) who were taken by Team England? If those players have been around in an earlier generation and played more for the county, I suspect they'd all be shoo-ins.

Ok my thoughts: I'm sorry but I have to go against some of my favourite posters, I'm leaving out the best specialist keeper (Binks) in favour of young Bairstow. Also I only saw Brain Close in his later Somerset days, if he doesn't captain is he worth his place? Donning my tin hat I'm leaving him out.

I'm going with

Boycott, Hutton, Vaughan, Root, Lehmann, JB, Illy, Rashid, Gough, Trueman and Sidebottom (R).

Wardle seems to be the best post war spinner, but not a team man - don't like that, that's why he's out.

Seamers: Old, Hoggard, Silvers, Bres, Arnie, Jarvis, Appleyard, Nicholson, not a lot between them. FST and Ryan stand out, I think Gough edges the final place but circumstances, time of his career and poor advice hurt his legacy, although when he returned as captain I sense we started to love him again and forgave his faults.

I'd have loved to see this lot play T20, I suspect they'd be rather good.

Oh dear, what every happened to NLOP!
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Joined: 17 Oct 2013, 20:44

25 Oct 2017, 13:22 #32

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Patto would probably have got on the pre-war side!

Not sure about classifying Bob Appleyard as a seamer, though he did take the new ball on occasions. World-class off-spinner, same era as Jim Laker and hampered by illness.

I often wonder whether Johnny Wardle would have been a 'better person' if he had been brought up (as a cricketer) in the current sympathetic era rather than in the poisonous 1950s. I reckon he would be the best paid player on earth if he was around now, absolute box-office, could do everything, could bowl everything.
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Joined: 21 Jun 2017, 14:21

25 Oct 2017, 17:26 #33

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
It is a interesting point as to whether the pre-war could match the post-war due to advancements in fitness/diet etc. The only area where I see it might have an impact is in fielding as 90mph is 90mph whatever era, spin is spin and hand/eye coordination has not changed that much. Of course pre-war players did bowl significantly more overs a day than the current lot, so may be they were fitter than we give them credit for or is it they were just tougher? So it comes down to the pitches. And, in our 'field of dreams' we would need both covered and uncovered pitches (at least 4+ of the post war choices of many on here would have never played first class cricket on uncovered pitches) with a groundsman from each era to prepare them. Also an agreement is needed on how many overs a day and the number of days.

One of the great features of cricket is that the fundamentals of the longer format have not changed so (like baseball) we can compare eras. Just listen to Boycs going on about Bradman on TMS suggests that players of that era and before would have been greats whenever they had played; otherwise the GOAT can only ever come from the most recent times - a tad arrogant i might suggest of the present generation. If 'current' is better how come Sutcliffe still has the highest average for an England opener, in fact any countries opener?

And a final thought, who will umpire?
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Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 20:03

25 Oct 2017, 20:16 #34

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Umpires? Well, not the most famous Yorkshire umpire please. I’d say one from each era, and a contrast in personalities: John Hampshire and Emmott Robinson.

If we’re looking for factors which differentiate between the two eras, we could make them play with traditional bats.
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014, 20:18

25 Oct 2017, 21:48 #35

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Sid-don.
Interesting that you exclude Wardle on the basis that he's not a team man, yet still include Boycott!
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Joined: 27 Mar 2014, 13:24

25 Oct 2017, 23:18 #36

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Modern day teams would save 100+ runs in the field compared to the pre war 'walk to to the boundary' era.

My darling Maxi
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Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 20:03

26 Oct 2017, 06:13 #37

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
I’d thought about the Wardle/Boycott comparison too. Both seem to have been self-obsessed and incapable of seeing how negative their presence was at times, yet both, according to individual accounts, could be generous with their time and wise with advice at others. Wardle is one of the heroes of Stephen Chalke’s new book about Geoff Cope.
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Joined: 28 Jun 2017, 18:19

26 Oct 2017, 14:29 #38

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Johnny Wardle would be in my Post War team as one of 2 spinners, along with Bob Appleyard. I saw him play (in the 50'and 60's) mostly at the Bramall lane ground-we got 5 games a season there in those days. His record was remarkable in the sense that he bowled a colossal number of overs (even for those days). Not only was his wicket haul very high but he could tie down batsman after batsman with his mixture of left arm off breaks,Chinaman and leg breaks. A whole hearted player with a hit or miss approach to batting- 4's and 6's a plenty. A stocky, very strong man both in body and mind. Hence, his reputation for being a bit"stroppy".
I had the pleasure of meeting him at his coaching 'school', after he was sacked by Yorkshire. He loved his cricket and opened a coaching set up which was a hired Barn, near Hatfield, Doncaster. Absolutely freezing in winter. Only fleeting meetings, of course, but he came across as very affable and enthusiastic, running it himself with no helpers. I was a batsman (supposedly) so didn't benefit as much as my mate -an Indian spinner. He did demonstrate how to hit 4 's and 6's which, when I put into practice (or should that be practise) strangely resulted in being out.
He did admit to being headstrong (not his word) but mostly with the authorities. He said that the players were all strong enough to take it and in many cases responded in kind.
I dared not ask him if the (apothrecal?) story involving Fred was true.
Here it is:
The West Indies quicks were in full cry- would it be Hall and Griffith?
Fred was on his way out to bat and on passing Johnny ,coming back,after his first ball duck , said, "That was a c**p shot."
Following which Fred was out first ball.On his return to the pavilion Johnny met him and said, "That was an even c*****r shot."
Only for Fred to reply, "Aye, ah slipped ont' s**t tha left."
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Joined: 17 Oct 2013, 20:44

26 Oct 2017, 20:04 #39

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Tony, the usual version of the story has Tyson as the bowler. Wardle was gone before Hall and Griffith were a force, though he would have played against Gilchrist - Roy, not Adam - in 1957. Hall was on that tour, but very much a gangling, coltish bowler at that stage. The 'pace like fire' came later.

I had a conversation with Ray Julian, who was a wicket-keeper who batted at 11 for Leicestershire before becoming a world class umpire. We were discussing the difference helmets have made to the tailend batsman. He said that when he played against Tyson, his only ambition was to live!
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Joined: 28 Jun 2017, 18:19

27 Oct 2017, 09:59 #40

Who would you pick to be in each team. Players like Len Hutton who played before and after the war can only appear in one team.

My teams are;

Pre-ww2; Sutcliffe, Holmes, Hutton, Leyland, Mitchell, Rhodes (c), Hunter (D)(w), Hirst, Verity, Macaulay, Bowes.
Post-ww2; Boycott (c), Root, Lehman (D), Bairstow (J), Ballance, Blakey(w), Trueman, Gough, Old, Wardle, Hoggard.
Ok- thanks for that information, Dave. Good thing I doubted my memory, although I am surprised that it was Tyson and not Fred. Wish I had been braver and asked Johnny now.
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